List Mgmt. 2014 Draft + DFA Talk Part II

[Mr Magic]

One guy that I don't mind for a later pick that seems to have drifted off a few phantoms radars is Daniel Capiron. He has been mooted as anyway from second round to not getting picked by some or I guess rookie

I certainly think he would be worth later pick before a rookie if not earlier!

Kicks off both feet and could easily be an upgrade on Batchelor and/or others!

 

[Rubber Hips]

McDonough, Knights

hopefully - but I see both McDonough and Knights as H F Flankers

I was thinking more of a classic FP Jake King type replacement - opposition crap themselves every time the ball is in our F50

Be good to pick up a Clem smith, Toby McLean or even Caleb Daniel (as a rookie)

 

[TJTIGER]

Our centre clearance stats are a joke and you only need to watch the elimination final to see an example of that. Stoppage clearance stats are much better. We do need a replacement for Maric and rucks take years. Might as well start now and grab Wright if he is available but doubt he will be. If he is not, top up with mids simple as that

What you've said, to me is another reason for going after more mid depth. We have also got Ivvy's cousin in the system. I know he may be a bit of a gamble but given the talls we have, surely they would not have signed I.Soldo, (also with him we do not have to wait for him to grow into his body) if the intent was to go after more ruck stocks ?? Also the potential impact on the team of more mid depth I believe would have more far reaching affects on the team (& still adress issues before our other mid stars get passed it). Such as freeing up the likes of Lids, Cotch & Dusty to be more damaging (similar to the intro of Miles).

As a side note just finished watching TV & Griffs draft vids. Both looked outstanding. Particularly TV. It seems once players get to AFL level the gap closes considerably so it seems very unusual/Rare that players dominate the same way once into AFL. It seems that dominant mids can be translated into strong AFL contributors quicker & with more likelyhood than Rucks (that's just imo, I have no stats to back up that view). At the end of the day I'll back the club in when all is said & done....

 

[RockJobster0312]

I actually think Cameron and Tomlinson are almost incompatible because they play too similar and get in each others way. Both rely on mobility.

That's where I think Tomlinson would be best utilised in a tall forward setup bit like with Richmond like Richo on the wing where he provides that ground level play as well as a lead up option creating space separately from Griffith's on the other flank.

I don't take 2 much notice of duo stats talking about JR and TV. Its like the government arguing no issues if the employment rate goes down. The employment rate us meaningless like the duo stat because it does not measure forward line effectiveness just who kicked the goals over a period. You really need contestability rates of various forward set-ups to get relevant analysis of forward line effectiveness. For example it could be argued the duo rate was good because they got all the ball against weaker opposition and were not really efficient at all.

I don't see a problem with the third option. The problem may be how TV fits in with or without Wright. With Wright TV can play more ruck so that helps that but TV needs to develop his game more IMO especially marking.

Martin and Lids can play forward regardless as guns but not a great need for Cotch to leave the middle except if having a rest

I cant say I have seen a ton of GWS last year, but it always seemed to me they used Tomlinson as more of a gap player. If they need an extra back he would go there. Ditto wing and ditto forward line. I think his skills leave a bit to be desired BUT that will improve over time. In short I rate him highly. But so does GWS insofar as it looks as if he will re-sign with them.

Obviously you are correct in that goals kicked cannot be a true indicator of effectiveness (advanced metrics seem to be a little slow in getting to the AFL). But purely on face value you have to say they had some degree of effectiveness, and there is no reason that it cannot be replicated - hopefully enhanced - next season.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Liam Duggan matured quickly after teammate’s death, set to be first-round draft pick

Here are a couple of quotes from the article

Richmond has spoken to Duggan several times and wants to add to its growing band of classy ball users at pick 12, while draft sources believe Duggan won’t get past North Melbourne at pick 16.

An AFL recruiter noted he was among the most impressive interviewees seen, with clubs believing he is the safest selection in this year’s pool.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/pick-m...round-draft-pick/story-fnaqgujp-1227119874846

Sign him up. Good enough for me. Been my Number 1 target from the start. Just looks a classy classy player

 

[Tiger71]

Sign him up. Good enough for me. Been my Number 1 target from the start. Just looks a classy classy player

Agree. Love what i am reading about the kid. Please baby Jesus, Ellis though a good kid who will be a good player is not worth our first round pick.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Anyone an astute draft watcher on here. If you were to combine say the top 20 picks from last year into this year, what would the top 20 be? I am curious to know where say Lennon would have gone in this years draft.

 

[Mr Magic]

I cant say I have seen a ton of GWS last year, but it always seemed to me they used Tomlinson as more of a gap player. If they need an extra back he would go there. Ditto wing and ditto forward line. I think his skills leave a bit to be desired BUT that will improve over time. In short I rate him highly. But so does GWS insofar as it looks as if he will re-sign with them.

Obviously you are correct in that goals kicked cannot be a true indicator of effectiveness (advanced metrics seem to be a little slow in getting to the AFL). But purely on face value you have to say they had some degree of effectiveness, and there is no reason that it cannot be replicated - hopefully enhanced - next season.

I looked at GWS's squad going forward including possible new recruits and the quality they have compiling will blow a normal salary cap by a massive and I mean massive margin as soon as the players get near FA and market rates. They are going to have to trade players out in the future. Bulldogs are playing a very smart game. I am predicting GWS win a premiership possibly by 2016 even though it sounds ridiculously early! This also means some Gold Coast players will look to get out to before hand when GWS surges past them. So when looking at draftees RFC needs to consider who we can get in the future from trades and FA as well!

BTW we must go heavy in this draft. The more draftees the better!

 

[TJTIGER]

Interesting to note in an AFL.com article saying after Wright clubs will not go after rucks until Rookie draft & says like Wright goes to GC....(Not sure how much you can actually read into it though, No Tomatoes mentioned or hinted @)

 

[Mr Magic]

Interesting to note in an AFL.com article saying after Wright clubs will not go after rucks until Rookie draft & says like Wright goes to GC....(Not sure how much you can actually read into it though, No Tomatoes mentioned or hinted @)

Funny thing is I rate Gold Coasts Lynch higher than Boyd. How far away for FA if GWS surge past Gold Coast for Gold Coasts youngsters? Could easily become a target for RFC!

Eg. Gold Coast get Wright then lose Lynch could be a scenario repeating itself!

 

[SteveRFC]

Geeze Duggans Pick Me video on Superfooty is impressive. Would be rapt to have the kid at our club.
Plays like: Dal Santo
Bases his game on: Pendlebury

 

[captain cotch 9]

I think we will take Langdon with our 3rd pick.

 

[Thrillhouse!]

A question for everyone. if both duggan and weller are available. Who do you take?

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I don't tend to say much in these draft boards as I don't see enough of the kids play.
But I have seen quite a bit of Duggan play for about. 4 years now and he is a very classy player.
Talking to another former bulldogs player(not Hawkins) and he's a good friend of the family and reckons he's pretty keen to go to the tigers.
The only other thing I've heard through is that he's unlikely to still be around at our pick.
Be interesting to see it unfold.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

I don't tend to say much in these draft boards as I don't see enough of the kids play.
But I have seen quite a bit of Duggan play for about. 4 years now and he is a very classy player.
Talking to another former bulldogs player(not Hawkins) and he's a good friend of the family and reckons he's pretty keen to go to the tigers.
The only other thing I've heard through is that he's unlikely to still be around at our pick.
Be interesting to see it unfold.

That cert is interesting cheers Rodney

 

[Stylo]

I don't tend to say much in these draft boards as I don't see enough of the kids play.
But I have seen quite a bit of Duggan play for about. 4 years now and he is a very classy player.
Talking to another former bulldogs player(not Hawkins) and he's a good friend of the family and reckons he's pretty keen to go to the tigers.
The only other thing I've heard through is that he's unlikely to still be around at our pick.
Be interesting to see it unfold.

Interesting. He does seem like the type who'd be rated highly by recruiters. We're in a pretty good position either way IMO, likely we'll get one of Weller, Duggan or Wright, any of which would be a great result.

Frankly I'm more interested now in who we get at 33, 52 and 70. Should be some very good players around at 33.

 

[bigstyletiger]

As long as one of duggan or weller is available I'll be pretty happy. We need some talls to go top 11. Hopefully lever, goddard and wright are all of the board before our pick.

 

[bananatigz]

Anyone an astute draft watcher on here. If you were to combine say the top 20 picks from last year into this year, what would the top 20 be? I am curious to know where say Lennon would have gone in this years draft.

Hard to know with this years draft being so open from 5-20, he'd be somewhere in that group, I think he'd still go around our pick

 

[RockJobster0312]

I looked at GWS's squad going forward including possible new recruits and the quality they have compiling will blow a normal salary cap by a massive and I mean massive margin as soon as the players get near FA and market rates. They are going to have to trade players out in the future. Bulldogs are playing a very smart game. I am predicting GWS win a premiership possibly by 2016 even though it sounds ridiculously early! This also means some Gold Coast players will look to get out to before hand when GWS surges past them. So when looking at draftees RFC needs to consider who we can get in the future from trades and FA as well!

BTW we must go heavy in this draft. The more draftees the better!

I don't necessarily think that GWS will win by 2016, I actually think GC have a better list - though that's another argument for another time.

But you are right about the contracts for these young players and that we have to go 'heavy' in this draft. As soon as free agency comes in, it becomes more and more like a property market. The next big contract will be based on the previous big contract. As stated before, the rumour around those in the know at the kennel is that after Boyd's massive contract, Bontempelli may sit down and say 'what are you going to do for me?'

As soon as free agency hit, it becomes closer to a free-for-all. You look at other major sporting associations in which Free Agency plays apart (NBA and NFL) and you cannot be successful without good young players - you need quality on small dollar contracts which only occurs for either veterans, players who improve a ridiculous amount or rookies. The last option is usually the most likely - though you realistically need players from each column.

(NB: FOR an example, the NBA Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard of the San Antonio Spurs is still on his rookie contract - circa $3 million - he is the 8th highest paid player on the team THIS season - would have been lower last season).

It is maybe why we are seeing ruckman slip more often now than in the last few years (Luenberger, Ryder, Kruezer, Longer all top 10 draft picks versus Grundy slipping, and now possibly Wright) because with the sub, most teams only play 1 genuine ruckman. But also, they take longer to develop (as you say Mr Magic ) coupled with the majority of rookie contracts being 2 years in the length. You are not going to be able to jump up the ladder drastically from say the top 10 if you don't have a player who has an impact on their rookie contract.

I think it is why we have publically stated we are 'invested' in this draft. If we go and re-sign up the out-of-contract players (Cotchin, Rance and Dusty would all demand more money) and we sign up another big name free agent (for an example say Dangerfield) you do not have a lot of money to move around with to lift up the bottom part of your list (say 18-28 players). If those players can be either veterans or rookies (thus on lesser dollars) it makes it us that much more deeper.

Case in point. Hawthorn had a bunch of ex-listed players (Cheney, Ceglar, Simpkin etc), but a bunch of younger players. Look at Langford, Litherland and Hartung all of whom played significant minutes in the season this year.

All of this in a round about way to say that we have to nail the draft. I am talking myself into NOT taking Wright the more we discuss this Mr Magic.

 

[sante]

I reckon we'll take Pass with pick 70

 

[KingJ]

Duggan reminds me of Heppell in many ways, on and off the field.

 

[TheAnt]

Sam Grimley rookie draft.

 

[tigertaskforce]

Sam Grimley rookie draft.

has he been delisted ? must have missed that

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Duggan reminds me of Heppell in many ways, on and off the field.

Except he dosent look like a teenage girl

 

[Put a Lids on it]

12 - Weller/Duggan
33 - Goodyear/McGrath
3rd - McGrath/Boekhorst
4th - Boekhorst/Marcon
- Miles [upgrade]

Rookie Draft
Marcon
Daniel
Mennen