List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[fronkalicious]

He probably could, but he's the closest thing to a natural defender you could find, really. I'd be more interested in seeing whether he can transition to the midfield than to the forward line.

He's a different beast to Scharenberg last year, who probably played a vaguely similar role in the back half, but was a high selection because of his propensity to transition into the midfield. Lever is just an incredibly smart player and knows exactly what to do as a defender.

Footy smart, tough and can run. Alrighty then.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It's those footy smarts combined with his athletic abilities which scream gun CHF to me though. But yeah you're probably right that he's better suited down back, it's something id love to see tried though.

I can see the thought process behind it, but let's put it this way: would you be keen to see Young played at CHF on a regular basis? I understand they're different players and I'm by no means comparing ceilings or anything of the sort, but their instincts are very much the same: block opponent leads, help out teammates, cut off clumsy/hurried forward distribution and run and launch counter-attacks. They're both very smart players and with some work probably could be forwards, but given how well they play their roles and how natural they are in them there's likely very little point in trying to change them. Midfield is a natural progression for some players but going forward is pretty much a complete shift in mindset, which is why swingman key position players are so rare and valuable. Some players are just natural in both positions - see Hugh Goddard from this draft class (although I think he's a much better defender), for example - but in my opinion Lever is a fantastic defender that has natural skill that really suits the role there; there isn't a whole heap of point in dealing with the teething problems of switching his mindset and role.

That said though, only my opinion of course and that's not worth much. A coach/recruiter may see the same thing you do, try it, and make me look like a fool. Just giving my two cents.

 

[doggies ftw]

I can see the thought process behind it, but let's put it this way: would you be keen to see Young played at CHF on a regular basis? I understand they're different players and I'm by no means comparing ceilings or anything of the sort, but their instincts are very much the same: block opponent leads, help out teammates, cut off clumsy/hurried forward distribution and run and launch counter-attacks. They're both very smart players and with some work probably could be forwards, but given how well they play their roles and how natural they are in them there's likely very little point in trying to change them. Midfield is a natural progression for some players but going forward is pretty much a complete shift in mindset, which is why swingman key position players are so rare and valuable. Some players are just natural in both positions - see Hugh Goddard from this draft class (although I think he's a much better defender), for example - but in my opinion Lever is a fantastic defender that has natural skill that really suits the role there; there isn't a whole heap of point in dealing with the teething problems of switching his mindset and role.

That said though, only my opinion of course and that's not worth much. A coach/recruiter may see the same thing you do, try it, and make me look like a fool. Just giving my two cents.

Yeah I wouldn't want to make him a worse player by moving him forward, was just wondering if it had been tried yet because he just strikes me as someone who would maybe suit it.

With the way you've described him there he sounds like he would fit into our backline perfectly anyway, and the way we're trying to build our KPP stocks (IMO I think the idea were going for is to find players who can hold down key posts but play like mids when the ball hits the deck, and there we have 'total football') I wouldn't be surprised if he was very high on our list, and I dare say if we did take him we would be looking to have him spend a bit of time up forward, through the middle, on the wing etc, it's just what we do can see him sort of becoming an anti-Stringer/Bonts. Spend large parts of the game in defence before switching forward when we need a spark.

If we see him only as a key defender long term, as good as he may be I'm just not that interested with a top 5/6 pick tbh. Can see why people would be but I think I've made it clear enough lately that I really rate our young Key defenders

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Yeah I wouldn't want to make him a worse player by moving him forward, was just wondering if it had been tried yet because he just strikes me as someone who would maybe suit it.

With the way you've described him there he sounds like he would fit into our backline perfectly anyway, and the way we're trying to build our KPP stocks (IMO I think the idea were going for is to find players who can hold down key posts but play like mids when the ball hits the deck, and there we have 'total football') I wouldn't be surprised if he was very high on our list, and I dare say if we did take him we would be looking to have him spend a bit of time up forward, through the middle, on the wing etc, it's just what we do can see him sort of becoming an anti-Stringer/Bonts. Spend large parts of the game in defence before switching forward when we need a spark.

If we see him only as a key defender long term, as good as he may be I'm just not that interested with a top 5/6 pick tbh. Can see why people would be but I think I've made it clear enough lately that I really rate our young Key defenders

Fair enough. See I'm far from sold on Roberts (although have liked what I've seen), think Roughead will always be a limited but solid defender, and am not sure what to make of Talia, so a key defender is pretty high on my priorities list. Don't really see much 'elite' quality there and would like to attempt to add some; a first round pick is a nice way to do that.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Out of interest Skippos do you have any idea what recruiters see Wright as? Key forward or ruckman?

 

[Skippos]

Out of interest Skippos do you have any idea what recruiters see Wright as? Key forward or ruckman?

Haven't asked. I have a suspicion it's more a ruckman who can play forward. A bit Lycett-ish, I guess.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Haven't asked. I have a suspicion it's more a ruckman who can play forward. A bit Lycett-ish, I guess.

Thanks. Any chance he does a Grundy (although still think a lot of that was due to his interviews) and slides way down in the next few months if that is the case, do you think? For mine while his potential should he become a permanent forward is huge, as a ruckman he's very middle-of-the-road and probably not worth a top five pick.

Bizarre top end of the draft this year, really no pick you'd be 100% confident in.

 

[Skippos]

Thanks. Any chance he does a Grundy (although still think a lot of that was due to his interviews) and slides way down in the next few months if that is the case, do you think? For mine while his potential should he become a permanent forward is huge, as a ruckman he's very middle-of-the-road and probably not worth a top five pick.

Bizarre top end of the draft this year, really no pick you'd be 100% confident in.

Yeah agree with last bit. I'm pretty comfortable with Lever and Brayshaw no doubt becomes a reasonable AFL player (just not sure he's got genuine elite/game breaking potential) ditto McCartin but the rest all have so many ?s

I think there's less of a chance. Grundy shouldn't have interviewed badly, met him a few times while he was at school and he seemed a pretty switched on and high character kid. Wright's forward ability is a real point of difference and in a weaker draft (IMO) with teams looking for KPPs it should see him taken higher. 6-8 at the latest I'd say. I do agree that he's a pretty meh ruck though. Wright's skills and marking above Grundy's and athletically he's superior in a few key ways which IMO bodes for a little more upside as a player too.

 

[Super Hans]

Footy smart, tough and can run. Alrighty then.

I really think if he didn't do his ACL this year he would be a lock for top three.

You don't get defenders like him often. Sam Fisher, Michael Johnson types. And after reading he has shot up to 194cm I have no doubt he could fit the Harry Taylor type like a glove.

If all three of Petracca, Wright and McCartin are gone then he is the man.

 

[igloo dweller]

Macca gave a little insight into the Doggies' thinking come draft time just now on SEN. In response to a caller who asked the "KPF vs best available", Macca responded along the lines of "best available" but highlighted the need for talls at either end. Macca also said that he targets kids talented kids with character AND skill (50% importance for each). Said the top candidates change weekly - but i'm guessing this is more a comment on media than internal workings of AFL clubs.

no surprises, but i'd suggest that would mean in a durdin vs laverde vs lever vs goddard vs pickett vs weller scenario at pick 6 - the talls are going to be favoured.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Haven't asked. I have a suspicion it's more a ruckman who can play forward. A bit Lycett-ish, I guess.

I heard him interviewed and he sees himself as a forward first and ruckman second. I have not seen much of him yet, but if he can mark it and kick it and he's 203cm tall why wouldn't he be number 1? The Saints will snap him up I reckon.

 

[TempleKelvington]

I really think if he didn't do his ACL this year he would be a lock for top three.

You don't get defenders like him often. Sam Fisher, Michael Johnson types. And after reading he has shot up to 194cm I have no doubt he could fit the Harry Taylor type like a glove.

If all three of Petracca, Wright and McCartin are gone then he is the man.

Yes he looks ok from what i have seen. I think there will be decent KP prospects available at our pick, but I still like those taller mids and if there is a 190cm plus mid/forward/defender of class about I would be very happy to take him. No doubt we should get a pretty decent player either way.

So far I have only been able to find 2 players in that category.

Lamb and Laverde. Laverde from what I have seen plays a bit like Robert Murphy....thing is can he play midfield?

 

[stefoid]

It's those footy smarts combined with his athletic abilities which scream gun CHF to me though. But yeah you're probably right that he's better suited down back, it's something id love to see tried though.

If we want a forward, then with pick 5 or 6 we should draft a forward. Personally I think we should draft the best keypo available, forward or back.
I liked the look of Levers video - he looked sharp and showed good intensity in the contest.

 

[themightydoggies]

#5 Western Bulldogs – Reece McKenzie (VIC – KPF/Ruck)
Height: 196cm, Weight: 100kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Recruited from: Northern Knights
Range: 5-25
Profile: Big, contested marking key forward.

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

There are 12 players 193cm or taller that are considered top 20 to 30 pick range. For a key forward or key back role every one has some knock on them
eg: Is McCartin tall enough at 193cm to be the number 1 forward in an AFL aside, Wright is 203cm looks for all the world like a mobile ruckman, McKenzie come from nowhere on the back of a couple good TAC cup games against weak opposition, Goddard many think he disappointed at nationals, Lever injured all year and so on.

At least 3 or 4 will be gone before our 1st pick, of the remaining we hope our recruiting team picks a tall that best suits our needs.

However there is a greater risk with big guys that you do get it wrong, so perhaps a proven player like a Reid is a safer bet. With luck you could have one of the 12 still remaining at our second pick and he turns out to be the best.

 

[Mutt]

There are 12 players 193cm or taller that are considered top 20 to 30 pick range. For a key forward or key back role every one has some knock on them
eg: Is McCartin tall enough at 193cm to be the number 1 forward in an AFL aside, Wright is 203cm looks for all the world like a mobile ruckman, McKenzie come from nowhere on the back of a couple good TAC cup games against weak opposition, Goddard many think he disappointed at nationals, Lever injured all year and so on.

At least 3 or 4 will be gone before our 1st pick, of the remaining we hope our recruiting team picks a tall that best suits our needs.

However there is a greater risk with big guys that you do get it wrong, so perhaps a proven player like a Reid is a safer bet. With luck you could have one of the 12 still remaining at our second pick and he turns out to be the best.

Hard to argue with your logic there - drafting 18 year old talls is fraught and Sam Reid would hold down a key post for us for almost a decade and is quality.

 

[footyfan000001]

Nobody seems overly keen on Goddard? Could be handy at CHB.

 

[paulveed]

Nobody seems overly keen on Goddard? Could be handy at CHB.

Agree with the first sentence. Not so sure about the second though.

 

[footyfan000001]

Agree with the first sentence. Not so sure about the second though.

Why not a fan? Seemed to be talked up last year.

 

[Wizard17]

If you think he is a forward he is not a Forward not at AFL level he is way too inconstant down in the forward line and is more at home in defence. He is a natural defender.

Agree with the first sentence. Not so sure about the second though.

 

[paulveed]

Admit I have not seen a lot of him live, but what I have seen both forward and back, has left me singularly unimpressed.
I just feel at our pick there are a number of better options likely to be still available. And, I don't see where he is an upgrade on
some of the tall kids already developing on our list.
If we can't do better than Goddard at our pick [5-7 ?] I would be seriously surprised. I can't see him as in either the best 3 or so forward options, nor the best couple of early defender picks.

Just a personal opinion, not the only reasons for that opinion, but that's as much as I would put on here.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Video on the AFL site on Jake Lever, if anyone's interested. Talks about the injury and about himself as a player.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-08-13/injured-star-a-draft-enigma

 

[Aldo]

Video on the AFL site on Jake Lever, if anyone's interested. Talks about the injury and about himself as a player.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-08-13/injured-star-a-draft-enigma

Very impressive speaker. You can tell that he'll be an AFL captain just by watching that video.

 

[Super Hans]

Video on the AFL site on Jake Lever, if anyone's interested. Talks about the injury and about himself as a player.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-08-13/injured-star-a-draft-enigma

He is the definition of what Macca wants in a player. Very impressive off the field.

Really hoping we take this kid.

 

[VitalDread]

He is the definition of what Macca wants in a player. Very impressive off the field.

Really hoping we take this kid.

and he can fight
would fit in well with libba always getting. into peoples faces