List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Dav1d]

Going only on what others have written, I find myself hoping we get Duggan with our first pick. (Of course that can change). But I am wondering about the following -

Does he know how to find space? Does he seem to have time and balance such that he is a natural at getting clear, not just being a receiver who can distribute the ball well?

And can he win his own ball? Is he tenacious inside? Is he a contested mark? Can he win / neutralise contests against bigger opponents?

And finally one of the reasons for getting Bontempelli was because we could see enormous upside? What are we thinking about Duggan's upside?

Go watch him
Find Space: Yes, Tenacious inside: huh?, Contested mark: no, that isn't his role, neutralize his opponent: sometimes yes, sometimes no
wouldn't ever see him defending a big opponent because that would be a waste of his talents

and he is born later then Bontempell, so I'd say so

like flipper said; still hope we downgrade our picks so we wouldn't need to take Duggan so early (at this stage )

 

[Godogs247]

OK LOOK AT THIS

Melbourne have

Bulldogs w
Brisbane w
GWS w
W coast at home w
32 points

Rich have

St Kilda w
Lions w
Giants w
St Kilda again w
W coast at home w
32 points

Bulldogs have

Melb l
St kilda w
GWS w
24 points

GWS have

Adalaide l
Mel l
Bulldogs l
16 points

Lions have

Suns l
Melb l
Adelaide l
12 points

St Kilda have
Bulldogs l
12 points

Ladder bottom 6 will be

12 points Lions-McCardin best forward
12 points St Kilda -Durbin have young rucks already
16 points GWS - Picket need outside speed and have talls
24 points Bulldogs-Wright perfect fit
32 points Melbourne-Brayshaw need onballers
Melbourne compo pick frawley- Goddard perfect fit
32 points Richmond -Lamb or Petracca

Melbourne make out like bandits again.......see Viney pick 30

 

[Dale4captain]

Duggan seems to be massively overrated on this board. All phantoms have him going much much later than you guys are predicting, as well as the AFL website and the coverage they've had so far, in which the duggan interest has been minimal. Could it be possible that you've all sort of collectively overrated him? This board does that alot. Look at Boyd and Patton last year (and still this year..hhaha), or Aish, everyone just seems to hear a player could potentially be a good fit with us and then all of a sudden they're our make or break player. You blokes latch on reeeeaaal bad

 

[Kony Abbott]

I think Melbourne are a good chance to knock us over this weekend which puts them a game clear of us. Then they play Lions and GWS out of the bottom 7 clubs while we play Saints and GWS. Think they might finish above us.
Richmond play the saints twice and the lions and gws so not much chance of slipping below us however carlton have a pretty tough run only playing Saints out of the bottom 7 so could potentially slip below us. Other than that it's hard to see the bottom 7 changing much beyond that.
That would give Lions and Saints pick 1 and 2 which unfortunately I think would take McCartin and Wright of the table then GWS could go Durdin or perhaps Picket.
Just interested to know if those that follow the draft would be excited at the prospect of Durdin, since he's been a bit disapointing this year and also if anyone think he could work as a forward or if he's better suited as a defender?
With the underperformance of Goddard and Durdin so far this year I'm starting to lean towards Downgrading the pick and looking at somone like Lever/Lamb/Kietel and Duggan/Petracca/Pickett.

There is a possibility for that if we trade our first pick (probably 4-6) for GCS's 2 first round picks (12-16ish), we'd probably need to sweeten the deal but they need to cut their list down so there's incentive there. - However if we do that I don't think Petracca or Pickett will be available, Kietel would look really good in that range, Lever might also be worth a punt.
I think if that trade got done the (realistic) best case scenario would be that someone like Duggan or maybe even Goddard slid to the first pick (~12) and pick up someone like Kietel with the second pick (~14).
What we can give GC to get that deal over the line is another matter entirely though.

 

[Dav1d]

There is a possibility for that if we trade our first pick (probably 4-6) for GCS's 2 first round picks (12-16ish), we'd probably need to sweeten the deal but they need to cut their list down so there's incentive there. - However if we do that I don't think Petracca or Pickett will be available, Kietel would look really good in that range, Lever might also be worth a punt.
I think if that trade got done the (realistic) best case scenario would be that someone like Duggan or maybe even Goddard slid to the first pick (~12) and pick up someone like Kietel with the second pick (~14).
What we can give GC to get that deal over the line is another matter entirely though.

why would we need to sweeten the deal if we end up with 4? especially if GC get 12-16; if anything, that is overs

Duggan seems to be massively overrated on this board. All phantoms have him going much much later than you guys are predicting, as well as the AFL website and the coverage they've had so far, in which the duggan interest has been minimal. Could it be possible that you've all sort of collectively overrated him? This board does that alot. Look at Boyd and Patton last year (and still this year..hhaha), or Aish, everyone just seems to hear a player could potentially be a good fit with us and then all of a sudden they're our make or break player. You blokes latch on reeeeaaal bad

oh please, you realize the phantom drafts are all stealing from one another right? I called Callum Twoomey out for doing it
blatantly copied someone elses phantom draft; orders matched, word for word description

also he is in Brett Andersons mock draft, who has a fair idea where players will go
is Duggan a reach for our first...yes? overrated: no

 

[Kony Abbott]

why would we need to sweeten the deal if we end up with 4? especially if GC get 12-16; if anything, that is overs

oh please, you realize the phantom drafts are all stealing from one another right? I called Callum Twoomey out for doing it
blatantly copied someone elses phantom draft; orders matched, word for word description

also he is in Brett Andersons mock draft, who has a fair idea where players will go
is Duggan a reach for our first...yes? overrated: no

Actually now I say it out loud it is overs haha.
perhaps we could prize a fringe player off them somehow

 

[Metal]

Go watch him
Find Space: Yes, Tenacious inside: huh?, Contested mark: no, that isn't his role, neutralize his opponent: sometimes yes, sometimes no
wouldn't ever see him defending a big opponent because that would be a waste of his talents

and he is born later then Bontempell, so I'd say so

like flipper said; still hope we downgrade our picks so we wouldn't need to take Duggan so early (at this stage )

Thanks for the response, Dav1d. I live a long way from Melbourne so not able to just go and see him play. I guess I was wanting him to be more than just a receiver who runs wide and delivers well. I was trying to work out whether he has good defensive / contesting skills, and if not, whether he looks like a player who is willing to learn as much as he can. Macca won't want a player who can't win his own ball in one on one contests (or who he didn't think could be readily taught).

 

[Wizard17]

Duggan seems to be massively overrated on this board. All phantoms have him going much much later than you guys are predicting, as well as the AFL website and the coverage they've had so far, in which the duggan interest has been minimal. Could it be possible that you've all sort of collectively overrated him? This board does that alot. Look at Boyd and Patton last year (and still this year..hhaha), or Aish, everyone just seems to hear a player could potentially be a good fit with us and then all of a sudden they're our make or break player. You blokes latch on reeeeaaal bad

Not at all overrated. He isn't very well picked up by people in the media however he is going high in both Chris25's and Knightmare's Phantoms as well as having a December birthday. What the draft watchers are predicting here is that he makes a big run at the end of the year like what Bontempelli did because of that. I personally keep an eye out for individual write ups and footage for each player and from what I've seen from Duggan he is someone who could have an immediate impact at AFL level and his kicking skills are Gilbee like. Also tackles like a beast and can win his own footy which our guys have already made clear that we'll only draft someone who is capable of doing that. I truly can't believe how much the media underrates Duggan.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-player-profile-liam-duggan/

Liam Duggan (Western Jets)

Height: 183 cm
Weight: 76 kg
Position: Half-back
Strengths: Disposal, speed, penetrating kick
Areas of improvement: Inside game, composure
Player comparison: Matt Suckling

Liam Duggan is one of the most talented players in the TAC Cup but is hardly mentioned outside the Under 18s competition given all the focus on the talls of this year’s draft crop. He is the Western Jets’ key play maker who is not only used, but relied upon to provide crucial drive off the half-back flank. In doing so, he willingly helps provide run-and-carry for his side and would gain plenty of meterage like a Heath Shaw.

It would be remiss to just characterise Duggan as a running half back. He has a disguised weapon that comes in the form of his left boot, something that is rare for many players. He is the type that can not only run, but boot the ball over 60 metres and hit a target. Without meaning to get too stuck into cliche’s, he’s shoot the wings off a fly such is his accuracy.

Duggan’s man area for improvement would be his inside game because without needing to look at statistics, plenty of his disposals would be handball receives or intercept marks. This isn’t to say he avoids contests, but no doubt he prefers receiving the ball and sprinting away from packs to hit targets up forward. This strength along with his penetrating kick is the reason he has drawn comparisons to Matt Suckling.

Very few were surprised when the rebounding defender was selected in the AIS Academy squad and he has further enhanced his credentials with impressive performances this season. In a wet and soggy affair at Dandenong, Duggan had 33 disposals, 11 handball receives, five marks, six tackles and a goal. This performance indicated he was becoming a more rounded player and someone who could drift forward and kick goals when his team needed him.

The Western Jets must see Duggan as a barometer because unsurprisingly, when he plays well the team wins. In the Jets’ wins this season where Duggan has played, he has averaged 29.5 disposals. In their losses, he contributed an average of just 14.5 disposals. No doubt the opposition would be looking to shut down Duggan as a person of interest because of the run and disposal he provides – a deadly combination that would give any opposition coach headaches.

Another key reason to lock down Duggan is he can occasionally rush his disposal when pressure is inferred. While he is a beautiful kick of the football when given time and space, if he is kept under wraps, he can often kick short or pick the first option he sees. This shows either a lack of composure or a directive to gain meterage rather than cause a stoppage. Whatever the reason, Duggan is more effective when left alone to his own devices. Unfortunately it won’t take AFL clubs and opposition players to work out what it takes to stop him so it’s something he’ll need to work on.

Liam Duggan is a rebounding defender who loves the time and space of the open wing. He is a playmaker and instruments passages from half back to half forward, usually by carrying the ball 20 metres before booting it 60 metres. While he has some deficiencies in his game, sides like the Western Bulldogs, GWS or Carlton could use his disposal off the half back flank and while there is still plenty of months till the National Draft, expect Liam Duggan’s name to be called sooner rather than later.

 

[Wizard17]

Thanks for the response, Dav1d. I live a long way from Melbourne so not able to just go and see him play. I guess I was wanting him to be more than just a receiver who runs wide and delivers well. I was trying to work out whether he has good defensive / contesting skills, and if not, whether he looks like a player who is willing to learn as much as he can. Macca won't want a player who can't win his own ball in one on one contests (or who he didn't think could be readily taught).

He CAN win his own ball but it really isn't what he is used for in a team. He also tackles a lot which shows that the inside side of his game can be developed

 

[Dav1d]

Thanks for the response, Dav1d. I live a long way from Melbourne so not able to just go and see him play. I guess I was wanting him to be more than just a receiver who runs wide and delivers well. I was trying to work out whether he has good defensive / contesting skills, and if not, whether he looks like a player who is willing to learn as much as he can. Macca won't want a player who can't win his own ball in one on one contests (or who he didn't think could be readily taught).

If we downgrade our pick, I'd be happy with Jordan DeGoey & Duggan probably
DeGoey can win his own ball, is a good user, good decision maker
I actually wanted a player called Tyler Keitel, but his year has been a bit up and down as KPF

there are a tonne of players I rate though, Goddard just ain't one

 

[Kony Abbott]

OK LOOK AT THIS

Melbourne have

Bulldogs w
Brisbane w
GWS w
W coast at home w
32 points

Rich have

St Kilda w
Lions w
Giants w
St Kilda again w
W coast at home w
32 points

Bulldogs have

Melb l
St kilda w
GWS w
24 points

GWS have

Adalaide l
Mel l
Bulldogs l
16 points

Lions have

Suns l
Melb l
Adelaide l
12 points

St Kilda have
Bulldogs l
12 points

Ladder bottom 6 will be

12 points Lions-McCardin best forward
12 points St Kilda -Durbin have young rucks already
16 points GWS - Picket need outside speed and have talls
24 points Bulldogs-Wright perfect fit
32 points Melbourne-Brayshaw need onballers
Melbourne compo pick frawley- Goddard perfect fit
32 points Richmond -Lamb or Petracca

Melbourne make out like bandits again.......see Viney pick 30

You don't seem to rate West Coast very highly? I did the ladder predictor on AFL.com and had us ending up with pick 5 I think, above Melb and below Richmond and Carlton.

 

[True Dog]

Not at all overrated. He isn't very well picked up by people in the media however he is going high in both Chris25's and Knightmare's Phantoms as well as having a December birthday. What the draft watchers are predicting here is that he makes a big run at the end of the year like what Bontempelli did because of that. I personally keep an eye out for individual write ups and footage for each player and from what I've seen from Duggan he is someone who could have an immediate impact at AFL level and his kicking skills are Gilbee like. Also tackles like a beast and can win his own footy which our guys have already made clear that we'll only draft someone who is capable of doing that. I truly can't believe how much the media underrates Duggan.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-player-profile-liam-duggan/

What are the chances he'll be around for our second pick in your opinion?

 

[Wizard17]

also he is in Brett Andersons mock draft, who has a fair idea where players will go
is Duggan a reach for our first...yes? overrated: no

December b'day I expect him to make a big run at the end of this year. If he doesn't choose Pickett if he does get him because we need that attacking sort of player.

 

[Wizard17]

What are the chances he'll be around for our second pick in your opinion?

0%

 

[Dav1d]

What are the chances he'll be around for our second pick in your opinion?

after compo picks(if there are any), probably 5% one of Duggan or Keitel make it there
I'd be just as happy with Laverde though at our second round pick if it meant we got a good KPP in the first though
I like the Jets players, the media seems to really not talk them up much though

 

[Wizard17]

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-jake-lever/

Jake Lever (Calder Cannons)

Height: 192cm
Weight: 84kg
Player Comparison: Dustin Fletcher
Strengths: Reading the play, Intecept marking, rebounding, 1 on 1
Areas of Improvement: Needs to put on weight

Jake Lever won’t play a game this season, but his bottom-age form from last year has given enough of an indication he’ll be an early draft selection. Lever underwent a knee reconstruction in December after an accident at training. He’s aiming to be fully fit by the time the combine rolls around.

The AIS backman was on par with Christian Petracca as the most impressive under age player in the TAC Cup last year. He was the perfect defensive general, as his reading of the play was superb. Lever, the cousin of former Saint Jay, is by far the best aerialist defender in the 2014 crop. He goes back with the flight and thanks to his lanky arms, he manages to spoil every dangerous kick or take plenty of intercept marks.

In fact, Lever averaged nearly two contested marks per game in his 11 TAC Cup games, whilst averaging six marks all up, per TAC Cup contest. In that sense, and in his body type, the best comparison would be Dustin Fletcher, although his skill in the air is similar to Harry Taylor as well.

Lever is one of the best rebounding key defenders too. He manages to find a lot of the ball and his kicking is well above average for a key defender. He ran at close to 70 per cent in the TAC Cup and 73 per cent in the National Championships in terms of disposal efficiency. He can hurt opposition teams offensively, as he frees himself and players look to pass to him. In the National Carnival last year, Lever averaged 7.5 handball receives per game.

The only four players that averaged more for Metro were Josh Kelly, Ben Cavarra, Luke McDonald and Mitch Honeychurch. Alongside that, he managed to have nearly 11 uncontested possessions, one and a half inside 50’s and close to three rebound 50’s per game in the championships. To cap it all off, he was selected as Captain for one of the Metro games too.

Lever is one of the most versatile key defenders to come through the ranks in a long time. Whilst Lachie Plowman provided that rebounding type role, Lever seems to be the most complete key back in terms of offensive and defensive capability. Whilst his lanky frame may seem like an issue, he’s added two kilograms to his frame over summer.

Lever will be able to compete with the gorilla forwards as he is quick, agile and reads the play better than most forwards. Lever will also beat the multi – dimensional forwards like Jeremy Cameron at their own game, as his skill set matches the modern day key forwards.

Dav1

 

[Dav1d]

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-jake-lever/



Dav1

yeah I read it just before you sent it, wish he was a bit taller
him and Cordy, Talia and Roughead would be one tall mobile backline

 

[Kony Abbott]

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-jake-lever/

The bound for glory write-ups are great, but have you read McCartin's? they talk him up so much!

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Not at all overrated. He isn't very well picked up by people in the media however he is going high in both Chris25's and Knightmare's Phantoms as well as having a December birthday. What the draft watchers are predicting here is that he makes a big run at the end of the year like what Bontempelli did because of that. I personally keep an eye out for individual write ups and footage for each player and from what I've seen from Duggan he is someone who could have an immediate impact at AFL level and his kicking skills are Gilbee like. Also tackles like a beast and can win his own footy which our guys have already made clear that we'll only draft someone who is capable of doing that. I truly can't believe how much the media underrates Duggan.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-player-profile-liam-duggan/

Sounds a bit like Kade Koldashian (sp?) from this years draft

 

[Wizard17]

Sounds a bit like Kade Koldashian (sp?) from this years draft

Well I picked last year that both Kolodjashnij and Bontempelli would go high in the draft so this year I think Duggan looks like he'll be that sort of bolter. He isn't the same sort of player as KK he is more like a Gaff or Gilbee type, his footskills are sublime and he is a 100 meter player.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Why would we downgrade our first pick for 2 later picks in the first round.

We are in desperate need of KPP's & if we take later picks, we are going to miss out on a player we are in dire need of & will end up with more midfielders on our list. We may end up with the best midfield but no spine.

 

[igloo dweller]

Why would we downgrade our first pick for 2 later picks in the first round.

We are in desperate need of KPP's & if we take later picks, we are going to miss out on a player we are in dire need of & will end up with more midfielders on our list. We may end up with the best midfield but no spine.

the theory is that the we'd address more than one need (ie pace & ball use AND a forward marking target).

there are key forward with promise available throught the draft...the argument is that the one of these players, plus a good ball user / run & carry player will be of greater benefit long term than putting all our bickies in the KPF basket. of course, it's always open to debate...

 

[flipper83]

Why would we downgrade our first pick for 2 later picks in the first round.

We are in desperate need of KPP's & if we take later picks, we are going to miss out on a player we are in dire need of & will end up with more midfielders on our list. We may end up with the best midfield but no spine.

Not really, the 2 KPP's tipped to be available at our pick are Goddard and perhaps Durdin. Neither are forwards and both are more of your 2nd forward/defenders not your gorilla types which I think is what we are all hoping for. In downgrading we have the potential to get Kietel, who fits this mold more, as well as someone with pace and good skills which is something that I think we still need in our team.
I think this years draft is pretty even at the top, not like last years, so potentially we could get 2 players who might go on to have better careers than the one taken with our pick.

Obviously it depends on how the recruiters rate each player and who they think will be available.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Not really, the 2 KPP's tipped to be available at our pick are Goddard and perhaps Durdin. Neither are forwards and both are more of your 2nd forward/defenders not your gorilla types which I think is what we are all hoping for. In downgrading we have the potential to get Kietel, who fits this mold more, as well as someone with pace and good skills which is something that I think we still need in our team.
I think this years draft is pretty even at the top, not like last years, so potentially we could get 2 players who might go on to have better careers than the one taken with our pick.

Obviously it depends on how the recruiters rate each player and who they think will be available.

No argument in what you say, I do however think that we need to seriously consider trading one or both of Wallis & Higgins. We won't get first round picks for them, but we might be able to significantly improve our selection order & by doing that we may be able to get more of the type of players we need.

Wallis is pretty much a tagger & we already have Picken who can do that job, and although I rate Higgins, he has been cruelled by injuries & is unlikely to ever reach the heights we all thought he was capable of in the early part of his career.

I agree we need more pace & skill in our side, maybe this is one way we can achieve this.

 

[Dav1d]

I actually like Durdin a bit, reminds me of Jake Carlisle
but like Carlisle, I just don't see him as a dominant forward

Goddard in the past has reminded me of Brian Lake at his very best
this year he has reminded me of Zac Dawson when he is having an off day

sure I really rate Duggan, but I'd be happy with Ellis, DeGoey, Lever(not at our first though), Pickett, Marchbank, Petracca, Keitel, Weller
heck I even rate Brayshaw, just don't think he'd be a very good fit for us at this stage

Wallis is pretty much a tagger & we already have Picken who can do that job, and although I rate Higgins, he has been cruelled by injuries & is unlikely to ever reach the heights we all thought he was capable of in the early part of his career.

I agree we need more pace & skill in our side, maybe this is one way we can achieve this.

I wonder if Wood can take the best small forward next year allowing Picken to go back through the midfield and Wallis can play the role Boyd is

I had hopes for Pearce to come in and play that role but his season has been hurt by injuries as well, really sucks when players like Rough and Smith get injured because it is time they could be spent developing into a role