List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Dav1d]

The injury itself wouldn't have affected it, the rustiness of having been out for a while may have. May apply to an even greater extend for Lever.

Lever probably isn't a bad kick, I haven't seen enough of him (only 2 games last year) so it may be a mistake on my half to assume it's poor quality. However, after being out for a year, I don't think kicking will be one of his strengths.

Also, Lever was touted as a 5-15 pick at the start of the year & in the middle of the championships, most had him drifting out of contention for our first rounder, and now all of a sudden, there's a lot of hype for him again. The fact that he hasn't been playing this year has hyped him up Callum Bartlett style.

fair points

Skippos has seen far more of Durdin then I have, so they'd have a better idea

Do you remember last year prior to the draft, all the players who weren't playing games
shifting around like crazy in phantom drafts?
Bigfooty hype is a bit silly, but Brett Anderson has been saying Lever looks a good fit for the Dogs
since the start of the year and he'd have a fair idea of who the clubs are after (more so then anyone on BF)

like I said, I am keen to see the combine and if Lever posts poor results; I am hoping we pass in that case

 

[ossie_21]

"Melbourne has applied for a "special assistance" priority pick. The AFL Commission will consider their application"

If they get picks 2, 3 & 4 I'll be pretty bloody peeved

They need to be told to **** off! They have much bigger issues that a priority pick could fix, they have had enough high picks & concessions already. The AFL would be more of a joke if they grant it as well. Teams like us, Saints & Lions copped the worst timing to bottom out with GC & GWS given everything, this would put us & them a rung even further back. A pick that high for Frawley would be a joke too, good but come on not that good. Mid first & a second rounder at best.

They got two picks for Scully, there's your priority pick.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I'd rather keep Stringer in the Forward line where he will make a great medium tall with some stints in the midfield. Hrovat is good, but small. We need a big bodied mid with skill and speed I think. But we do have players who can play the outside role, I am worried about the centerline though, I think we need one more beast to work with Libba at the bounces

Stringer is such a natural in play up field. He reads and sees the game like a mid, he can navigate his way through waves of opposition players with his elite strength and agillity, he breaks away from the contest with ease. As a forward he is a definite goal kicker, but he's not that great in the air against AFL defenders and I don't think he reads the depth of a kick that well of the boot, something a forward must do.

 

[dergert]

They need to be told to **** off! They have much bigger issues that a priority pick could fix, they have had enough high picks & concessions already. The AFL would be more of a joke if they grant it as well. Teams like us, Saints & Lions copped the worst timing to bottom out with GC & GWS given everything, this would put us & them a rung even further back. A pick that high for Frawley would be a joke too, good but come on not that good. Mid first & a second rounder at best.

They got two picks for Scully, there's your priority pick.

This x10.

 

[Skippos]

would a thumb injury greatly affect his ball drop, do you think? what concerns me, is he doesn't win enough of the ball and a lot of his best skills seem to be greatly exaggerated from what I have seen

and maybe that was too harsh, I do think it is a bit unfair to label Lever personally as a bad kick

definitely something worth bringing in Skippos to get their opinion on the matter

have you seen much of Viojo-Rainbow then? Since you mentioned quality kicks

To an extent. He certainly seems technically not as sound by foot this year. Wearing a glove takes awhile to get used to and does slightly effect the way it drops. Something that can be adjusted to (as can different levels of grip/power in the thumb) though. Durdin certainly is a very, very good field kick. Better than Lever in terms of execution and ability to penetrate and release.

Though Lever certainly isn't a bad kick. Technically he's 'okay' and he isn't incredibly gifted at executing 'hurn-esque' kicks but he's someone who I could certainly live with as a primary rebounder. He's very, very quick to assess situations and make decisions compared to most players, his decision making is good and his vision is good. He's definitely able to work with his limitations in mind and because his mental qualities regarding kicking are all top notch in general he's a reliable kick of the football. The speed at which he makes his decisions often allows for a little more room for error anyway.

fair points

Skippos has seen far more of Durdin then I have, so they'd have a better idea

Do you remember last year prior to the draft, all the players who weren't playing games
shifting around like crazy in phantom drafts?
Bigfooty hype is a bit silly, but Brett Anderson has been saying Lever looks a good fit for the Dogs
since the start of the year and he'd have a fair idea of who the clubs are after (more so then anyone on BF)

like I said, I am keen to see the combine and if Lever posts poor results; I am hoping we pass in that case

I've become a 'they' have I

Bigfooty hype isn't really silly sometimes - though bandwagons definitely do form. I'm pretty sure this year I've inadvertently started the 'Pickett is defensively rubbish' one, the 'Jarrod Garlett' one and the 'Lever top 5-6' (after I selected him there in the BFGN draft and flogged him as a gun and since then he's been talked about across the site as a top echelon player when a few months ago he was second tier) one. May be coincidental but I think I definitely had a role in those. KM had a big role in the McKenzie one that's forming now and the Laverde one that formed a month or two ago (and subsequently fell away a little) and Chris definitely had a massive role in Ahern rising on here. But all of those bandwagons have real merit which IMO means they're the rare kind of good bandwagon.

I'd certainly back KM's draft opinion over every journalist's, though. Only EQ comes close. I think you'd be surprised at how many connections people have on here, though. I generally take what journos say at this point with a grain of salt because I generally assume it's been fed to them for a reason, clubs wouldn't want players pumped up that they're eyeing off, so why would they feed journos genuine/true information?

As for Lever - I wouldn't be surprised if he tested poorly at the combine. If he tests at all - it'd have been, what, 10 months since the injury? He'd either be beginning his return or only just begun it. His leg strength won't be there so anything that involves running/jumping/agility will be well down on his peak.

 

[Dav1d]

To an extent. He certainly seems technically not as sound by foot this year. Wearing a glove takes awhile to get used to and does slightly effect the way it drops. Something that can be adjusted to (as can different levels of grip/power in the thumb) though. Durdin certainly is a very, very good field kick. Better than Lever in terms of execution and ability to penetrate and release.

Though Lever certainly isn't a bad kick. Technically he's 'okay' and he isn't incredibly gifted at executing 'hurn-esque' kicks but he's someone who I could certainly live with as a primary rebounder. He's very, very quick to assess situations and make decisions compared to most players, his decision making is good and his vision is good. He's definitely able to work with his limitations in mind and because his mental qualities regarding kicking are all top notch in general he's a reliable kick of the football. The speed at which he makes his decisions often allows for a little more room for error anyway.



I've become a 'they' have I

Bigfooty hype isn't really silly sometimes - though bandwagons definitely do form. I'm pretty sure this year I've inadvertently started the 'Pickett is defensively rubbish' one, the 'Jarrod Garlett' one and the 'Lever top 5-6' (after I selected him there in the BFGN draft and flogged him as a gun and since then he's been talked about across the site as a top echelon player when a few months ago he was second tier) one. May be coincidental but I think I definitely had a role in those. KM had a big role in the McKenzie one that's forming now and the Laverde one that formed a month or two ago (and subsequently fell away a little) and Chris definitely had a massive role in Ahern rising on here. But all of those bandwagons have real merit which IMO means they're the rare kind of good bandwagon.

I'd certainly back KM's draft opinion over every journalist's, though. Only EQ comes close. I think you'd be surprised at how many connections people have on here, though. I generally take what journos say at this point with a grain of salt because I generally assume it's been fed to them for a reason, clubs wouldn't want players pumped up that they're eyeing off, so why would they feed journos genuine/true information?

As for Lever - I wouldn't be surprised if he tested poorly at the combine. If he tests at all - it'd have been, what, 10 months since the injury? He'd either be beginning his return or only just begun it. His leg strength won't be there so anything that involves running/jumping/agility will be well down on his peak.

I said they, because I never clicked your name to see if you were male/female and just went with they in the end heh

but yeah, the recruiters will also see his past results on some of those things
I mostly meant the tests regarding his kicking though

do you think he'd be back kicking the ball at this stage? I'm not sure how long before they can start doing skills with his injury

personally, I take all the opinions on here and from journalists with a grain of salt.......some lemon & tequila

why do you think Laverde dropped off a bit? still has been playing quite well in the TAC

on the kicking, I think that both their ability to find targets are real good
not saying that Lever has the better kick, just that he is not a poor quality kick

the technique part doesn't bother me as much as been able to effectively hit targets under pressure

 

[GrandBlue]

What ever happened to the Marchbank hype?

 

[Dry Rot]

I think if we lose higgins that one of our second rounds could have Viojo-Rainbow's name on it. Hopefully we get Cordy fourth round so we can snatch up McLean with our third and thus gain another 30 plus goal kicker. Would love a group of Lever, McKenzie, Rainbow, McLean & Cordy. Would give us two KPD's, a KPF, Skills and a speedy, skilled goal kicker who is strong overhead.

Who's McLean?

 

[Dav1d]

What ever happened to the Marchbank hype?

I believe he got a knee injury and won't be playing again this season

I do think you're right with the idea that we'll select mostly from Victoria again
would be surprised if we didn't

 

[Dav1d]

also

Pick 43: Carlton – Reece McKenzie

Position: Key forward/ruck
Height: 196 cm, Weight: 100 kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Club: Northern Knights
Projected draft range: 25-60
Player comparison: Travis Cloke

Reece McKenzie’s positioning in this draft has caused a lot of debate within the draft expert fraternity. Whilst some rate him as a first to second round pick, I am not convinced. McKenzie – who is blessed with height, strength and a terrific contested grab – is still very raw in facets. He is particularly slow in his recovery from a contest, has the turning circle of a ship, and doesn’t have a whole heap of agility. However. like Paddy McCartin, he goes ten-pin bowling when faced with an opportunity to make his presence known in pack. His kicking for goal can be wayward at times, but there is also plenty to work with from a development point of view. Kids this big are well worth the punt, but he’s not somebody I’d put the house on in terms of making an immediate impact. Quite a few have gotten carried away with his bags of 10 and seven goals against lowly opposition, but whilst he won’t have an opportunity to do it in finals against the best sides, he has attributes that can be filled out to make him an AFL-ready player. At this stage, he relies on his size to out-muscle small opponents, but at AFL level he’ll have to adapt a few more footy smarts and really work hard defensively to really make a fist of it at AFL level, which he’s more than capable of. However, overall, he’s still very much a development prospect.


from Paige Cardona's updated Phantom Draft

 

[Skippos]

I said they, because I never clicked your name to see if you were male/female and just went with they in the end heh

but yeah, the recruiters will also see his past results on some of those things
I mostly meant the tests regarding his kicking though

do you think he'd be back kicking the ball at this stage? I'm not sure how long before they can start doing skills with his injury

personally, I take all the opinions on here and from journalists with a grain of salt.......some lemon & tequila

why do you think Laverde dropped off a bit? still has been playing quite well in the TAC

on the kicking, I think that both their ability to find targets are real good
not saying that Lever has the better kick, just that he is not a poor quality kick

the technique part doesn't bother me as much as been able to effectively hit targets under pressure

Heh, yeah I'm male

Not sure I'd expect his kicking to be perfect after the layoff too but we'll see.

I think accumulation is the knock on Laverde. Nowadays you want your full time mids to accumulate the ball 22+ times a game, preferably more. Laverde isn't consistently putting up top numbers in the TAC and while his kicking, athleticism and versatility is top notch if he's not winning the ball enough to really hurt the opposition it's a little redundant. Then again MacRae and Bonts both didn't win volumes of the football at TAC level and both, especially MacRae, look to be excellent accumulators now.

Agree regarding the kicking.

What ever happened to the Marchbank hype?

It died a little, as it should have. Was injured too, though. At the end of the day he's a 193cm defender with a solid 1 v 1 game and a good contested/intercept grab. By foot he's between poor and ordinary too and he's not very athletic which at his height is something quite important. Not going to close down leads or beat a forward at ground level.

also

Pick 43: Carlton – Reece McKenzie

Position: Key forward/ruck
Height: 196 cm, Weight: 100 kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Club: Northern Knights
Projected draft range: 25-60
Player comparison: Travis Cloke

Reece McKenzie’s positioning in this draft has caused a lot of debate within the draft expert fraternity. Whilst some rate him as a first to second round pick, I am not convinced. McKenzie – who is blessed with height, strength and a terrific contested grab – is still very raw in facets. He is particularly slow in his recovery from a contest, has the turning circle of a ship, and doesn’t have a whole heap of agility. However. like Paddy McCartin, he goes ten-pin bowling when faced with an opportunity to make his presence known in pack. His kicking for goal can be wayward at times, but there is also plenty to work with from a development point of view. Kids this big are well worth the punt, but he’s not somebody I’d put the house on in terms of making an immediate impact. Quite a few have gotten carried away with his bags of 10 and seven goals against lowly opposition, but whilst he won’t have an opportunity to do it in finals against the best sides, he has attributes that can be filled out to make him an AFL-ready player. At this stage, he relies on his size to out-muscle small opponents, but at AFL level he’ll have to adapt a few more footy smarts and really work hard defensively to really make a fist of it at AFL level, which he’s more than capable of. However, overall, he’s still very much a development prospect.


from Paige Cardona's updated Phantom Draft

One of the few things Paige and I agree on. He's not worth it.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

We need some young class on the outside and at least two KPP's whether it be via trade or at the draft. There's no denying it.

While we are strong in the middle with Bonts, Libba, Macrae, Hrovat, Stevens, Stringer (who I think is a mid) and Wallis, tragically at this point constant injuries to Clay and the great Prudden means we might not be as deep in the middle as we once thought (not writing either one of them off, just the history of players injured that often early in their career is not that great). Coupled with the impending retirement of Boyd and unfortunate eventual decline of Griff, I think it might be wise to spend one of our four picks (in some shape or form) on a inside type.

Unfortunately we probably won't get a shot at Connor Blakely.

I like Neal-Bullen, but he probably won't last to the 40-60 range either.

Who are some guys we could target?

 

[Dav1d]

We need some young class on the outside and at least two KPP's whether it be via trade or at the draft. There's no denying it.

While we are strong in the middle with Bonts, Libba, Macrae, Hrovat, Stevens, Stringer (who I think is a mid) and Wallis, tragically at this point constant injuries to Clay and the great Prudden means we might not be as deep in the middle as we once thought (not writing either one of them off, just the history of players injured that often early in their career is not that great). Coupled with the impending retirement of Boyd and unfortunate eventual decline of Griff, I think it might be wise to spend one of our four picks (in some shape or form) on a inside type.

Unfortunately we probably won't get a shot at Connor Blakely.

I like Neal-Bullen, but he probably won't last to the 40-60 range either.

Who are some guys we could target?

I think Nathan Drummond could be a fairly realistic target in that range, possibly even lower
solid build, great speed, ferocious tackler
bit inconsistent by foot though

Libba definitely needs some help though

maybe we will target these types of players with our rookie picks?

 

[doggies ftw]

I think we're the perfect club to take a chance on McKenzie. That 'presence' and contested marking ability iOS the main thing we need in a KPF.

 

[farstrider]

After reading this:

http://boundforglorynews.com/paige-cardonas-phantom-draft-3-0/

I really want to see us trade down with Gold Coast. Marchbank for Laverde/Duggan? Hell yes. While it probably won't play out like that, the drop off from the top 4 (Durdin seems to be falling out of favour) and the depth from 5-20 makes me think 2 from the latter is worth much more than one at 5/6.

 

[Godogs247]

Cant believe that Hunter didnt get rising star

Anyway

Looks like draft goes

Pick 1 -St kilda McCartin
Pick 2-Melb Pettraca
Pick 3-Melb Bradshaw
Pick 4-GWS -Levin
Pick 5-Bris Durbin
Pick 6-Bulldogs Wright
Pick 7-Carlton Verde
Dogs
Pick 6 Wright
Pick 26-Keitel
pick 27-Rainbow
Pick 43-Cordy
Pick 66- Lim

We will take a risk and go all out on height this daft if Brisbane take Wright bulldogs will go Durbin

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I would be absolutely stunned if Wright made it to 6.

 

[Wizard17]

http://m.afl.com.au/video/2014-07-15/speccy-specialist-a-draft-bolter
From the AFL site.

Who's McLean?

From Paige's Phantom

Pick 48: North Melbourne – Toby McLean Position: ForwardHeight: 179 cm, Weight: 70 kg, DOB: 31/01/1996Club: Oakleigh ChargersProjected draft range: 40-rookiePlayer comparison: Jamie ElliottToby McLean gives you a bit of everything, and is very similar to Geelong’s Steven Motlop. He has a silky sidestep that sucks in opponents that allows him to zip past, while also having that huge leap and contested mark that defies his size. McLean is best known for his hangers that he takes constantly at the Chargers. He is an excitement machine who is crafty and dangerous around goal, kicking goals with consummate ease. He has pace, a good goose step, sells candy and darts through congestion, whilst also being able to stand up in tackles to kick miraculous over-the-shoulder goals. His strengths comes down to his sheer balance. He’s quite strong on both sides of his body, and stands up in tackles due to his low centre of gravity. He is a nightmare for defenders, because he simply gets around them like they’re witches hats. He also has exceptional agility, poise and vision which enable him to find angles others don’t see.


Motlop with a huge jump...

 

[Dav1d]

From Paige's Phantom

Pick 48: North Melbourne – Toby McLean Position: ForwardHeight: 179 cm, Weight: 70 kg, DOB: 31/01/1996Club: Oakleigh ChargersProjected draft range: 40-rookiePlayer comparison: Jamie ElliottToby McLean gives you a bit of everything, and is very similar to Geelong’s Steven Motlop. He has a silky sidestep that sucks in opponents that allows him to zip past, while also having that huge leap and contested mark that defies his size. McLean is best known for his hangers that he takes constantly at the Chargers. He is an excitement machine who is crafty and dangerous around goal, kicking goals with consummate ease. He has pace, a good goose step, sells candy and darts through congestion, whilst also being able to stand up in tackles to kick miraculous over-the-shoulder goals. His strengths comes down to his sheer balance. He’s quite strong on both sides of his body, and stands up in tackles due to his low centre of gravity. He is a nightmare for defenders, because he simply gets around them like they’re witches hats. He also has exceptional agility, poise and vision which enable him to find angles others don’t see.


Motlop with a huge jump...

have you seen him live yet? I wonder how much growth he has got left in him
I thought he was a bit shorter then 179cm

 

[Wizard17]

http://madmondayshow.com/2014/08/19/rd-17-western-jets-scouting-notes/

Payne played as a defender

 

[Fossie 32]

The draft will take place on Thursday, November 27

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141127T14&p0=1490&msg=AFL+2014National+Draft

 

[Dry Rot]

http://m.afl.com.au/video/2014-07-15/speccy-specialist-a-draft-bolter
From the AFL site.

From Paige's Phantom

Pick 48: North Melbourne – Toby McLean Position: ForwardHeight: 179 cm, Weight: 70 kg, DOB: 31/01/1996Club: Oakleigh ChargersProjected draft range: 40-rookiePlayer comparison: Jamie ElliottToby McLean gives you a bit of everything, and is very similar to Geelong’s Steven Motlop. He has a silky sidestep that sucks in opponents that allows him to zip past, while also having that huge leap and contested mark that defies his size. McLean is best known for his hangers that he takes constantly at the Chargers. He is an excitement machine who is crafty and dangerous around goal, kicking goals with consummate ease. He has pace, a good goose step, sells candy and darts through congestion, whilst also being able to stand up in tackles to kick miraculous over-the-shoulder goals. His strengths comes down to his sheer balance. He’s quite strong on both sides of his body, and stands up in tackles due to his low centre of gravity. He is a nightmare for defenders, because he simply gets around them like they’re witches hats. He also has exceptional agility, poise and vision which enable him to find angles others don’t see.


Motlop with a huge jump...

Thanks. Sounds an exciting player - why is he predicted to go so late? Size/height?

 

[Godogs247]

We will be on top of Carlton as they have Essendon in the last week...

So have a look


this is what im hearing-None of st kilda Melb GWS and Brisbane Carlton want a ruckman so we will get Wright...

St.kilda-McCartin
Melb-Pettracca
Melb-Brayshaw
Gws-Lever
Bris-Weller
Car-Durbin
Bulld-Wright
G Coast-laverde
W coast -Picket
Rich-Ahern

Good job

 

[House_of_Dahl]

We will be on top of Carlton as they have Essendon in the last week...

So have a look


this is what im hearing-None of st kilda Melb GWS and Brisbane Carlton want a ruckman so we will get Wright...

St.kilda-McCartin
Melb-Pettracca
Melb-Brayshaw
Gws-Lever
Bris-Weller
Car-Durbin
Bulld-Wright
G Coast-laverde
W coast -Picket
Rich-Ahern

Good job

Except Wright is also considered one of the best KPF options too is he not? Think we'd be lucky..

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I would be absolutely stunned if Wright made it to 6.

He won't. 6'9" guys who can kick and are mobile don't get forgotten about.