List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The problem is that he's so big already and he's playing colts against 65 kilo kids. Reece McKenzie syndrome but to a far greater extent.

It's why I don't look too kindly on Keitel's 8 goal haul on the weekend either. It's in colts. Gotta do it in reserves for me to give weight to it, unless you're doing it every week in the 18s without a physical advantage.

Oh, and will do. Appreciate the kind words

Yeah, that's fair enough. As with McKenzie it's not so much the dominant performances but the attributes that attract me to Hayes; I use those top-line games as more of a guide to determining what they can do if given enough leniency/a favourable matchup. I get your concerns with him and don't think he ever projects as a dominant type, but imo when your two biggest strengths are contested marking and a great knowledge of the game you're going to be capable of having some sort of impact.

Anyway it's nice to have something we disagree on for a change.

 

[Doggies7]

- Trade Minson to PA or another club in a Premiership window for a late first round pick (sweet the deal if we need to)...
.

I could be talked into a Minson trade, depending on what picks we could get back in return, but if we did I think we would have to add a veteran ruckman to help the transition in case Campbell isn't quite yet ready for a full season, or Ayce doesn't come on as his backup. Jon Griffin from Fremantle could be a really good get for that position. Obviously being held out of the team due to Sandilands / Clarke, and he is an experienced guy, good age, would likely come cheap and give us some depth at that position.

Could rotate Campbell / Griffin / Cordy and see which two put their hands up to be our ruck rotation, with all 3 being better at resting fwd than Minson. (Cordy not a good mark yet, but still agile enough and room for improvement)

EDIT: Sorry this is more list management than draft related, but the idea would be trading Minson for draft pick(s)

 

[JTCWBFC]

I could be talked into a Minson trade, depending on what picks we could get back in return, but if we did I think we would have to add a veteran ruckman to help the transition in case Campbell isn't quite yet ready for a full season, or Ayce doesn't come on as his backup. Jon Griffin from Fremantle could be a really good get for that position. Obviously being held out of the team due to Sandilands / Clarke, and he is an experienced guy, good age, would likely come cheap and give us some depth at that position.

Could rotate Campbell / Griffin / Cordy and see which two put their hands up to be our ruck rotation, with all 3 being better at resting fwd than Minson. (Cordy not a good mark yet, but still agile enough and room for improvement)

EDIT: Sorry this is more list management than draft related, but the idea would be trading Minson for draft pick(s)

I agree. The option is Griffiths from Richmond. Sorry to get off topic, my point was I think we can still trade aggressively while maintaining a strong draft position to ensure the age balance of our list is preserved/improved.

 

[Godogs247]

Sorry put this in wrong thread

Would we look at traiding pick 7 -after we thrash!!! Trade for GWS picks 20 and 23..Humour me have a look below

Pick 7 -Lever /GWS they need a CHB

Our draft could then be like this...

Pick 20 Bulldogs- Liam Duggan
Position: Defender/midfielder
Height: 183 cm, Weight: 76 kg, DOB: 11/12/1996
Club: Western Jets
Projected draft range: 10-25
Player comparison: Steele Sidebottom
A bubbly character off-field, the ‘baby-faced assassin’ is another draft prospect that is gifted in terms of poise, hurt-factor and game-winning attributes. Duggan won the Ben Mitchell medal for this year’s AFL-AIS intake, and has an arsenal of weaponry that far exceeds most in this year’s draft crop. Playing in an array of positions, Duggan offers get-up-and-go from half back, along with being dangerous around the stoppages and loving to run and carry with his line-breaking speed. The talented left footer has also shown he’s dangerous and effective around goal, kicking three final-quarter goals against Northern Knights earlier in the year off just four disposals in a come-from-behind win. Duggan’s penetrating kick is his primary asset, but his ability to read the ball well in air along with both good vision and speed suggests his best position will eventually be situated in defence. Despite his slim build, Duggan can win his own ball and tackles strongly, and coupled with his rebounding and attacking style of play complemented by his long left foot, Duggan will be highly rated among recruiters at year’s end.

Pick 23: Bulldogs – Ed Vickers-Willis
Position: Utility
Height: 190 cm, Weight: 82 kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Club: Sandringham Dragons
Projected Draft range: 15-30
Player comparison: Tyson Goldsack/Bob Murphy
Named All-Australian at Full Back, on-lookers have been forced to double take at Ed Vickers-Willis. Despite being just 190cm, Vickers-Willis has a list of attributes, particularly his versatility, which makes him another hot prospect in November. This season, he has averaged 16 disposals at a superb 80 per cent disposal efficiency, to go along with his average of four marks and three rebounds. Vickers-Willis was named best afield in the Dragons’ win against fancied premiers Calder, picking apart their dynamic forward line to intercept mark and offer drive from defence. To Vickers-Willis’ credit, his ‘TV games’ were stand outs in the National Championships, which is why the focus on him as a potential first rounder has been magnified. Vickers-Willis was Metro’s everywhere man, filling holes up forward, down back and even at times through the midfield with aplomb. He has a lovely stride with the ball in hand, and – although not overly quick – knows where and when to run, and is quick of mind. Around the ground, he is a difficult player to match up on. His athleticism and agility are talking points, and in-flight he’s tidy and a serial threat. His marking game is terrific, as is his work at ground level: however, his clean hands and well-weighted handballs to clear congestion are what breaks open games. Vickers-Willis makes good decisions quickly with the ball, has good peripheral vision and can gather a good amount of the ball thanks to a big engine. There’s talk that he’s best developed as a tall midfielder, but his best football is played down back given he’s not overly quick, and doesn’t have a particular attribute that really separates him from the rest.

Pick 27: Bulldogs – Connor Menadue
Position: Midfielder/forward
Height: 188 cm, Weight: 69 kg, DOB: 19/09/1996
Club: Western Jets
Projected draft range: 20-40
Player comparison: Isaac Smith
An explosive yet nimble midfielder, don’t let Connor Menadue’s light frame fool you into thinking he isn’t up to the rigours of AFL football. Averaging 18 disposals for the Western Jets behind the likes of Liam Duggan, Corey Ellis, Dillon Viojo-Rainbow and Jayden Laverde, Menadue’s ability to cut open a game with his speed and penetrating kick makes him an exciting prospect for a club that’s looking for pace in their midfield. Although on the skinny side, Menadue cracks in hard when it comes to tackling, and has a knack for kicking goals on the run. He gets a big tick for versatility, playing mostly off half back and on a wing, albeit with stints up forward for the Jets. He takes the game on, rating among the best performed for handball receives, while he also makes good decisions. With the ability to use the ball by both hand and foot, Menadue has a certain amount of polish that a player of his ilk needs. He slips through congestion with his breakaway speed and loves to run and carry up a wing, not too dissimilar to Hawthorn’s Isaac Smith. I rate him highly particularly due to his agility, game awareness, and clean hands. Meanwhile, he has the scope to develop tremendously over the next five years to an elite wingman, with his body shape the key factor in determining just how far his ceiling goes. His marking is rated particularly highly, but he can also gather a high number of possessions and kick really classy goals. He does need to be fed the ball to really showcase his strengths, and although his contested side is lacking, he still forms a part of the puzzle every club needs.

Pick 28: Western Bulldogs - Tyler Keitel
Position: Key forward/defender
Height: 194 cm, Weight: 86 kg, DOB: 07/02/1996
Club: East Perth
Projected draft range: 15-30
Player comparison: Lachie Henderson
Another likely type that has thrown his name up off the back of a successful National Carnival, Tyler Keitel has been immersed in first round discussions for a few months now. However, he realistically may fall through early in the second round, depending on movement higher up the board. Thanks largely to a well-documented growth spurt, Keitel’s development as a key position player rather than a flanker has seen him taste action in a variety of roles, including defence and even in the ruck. However, in 2014, Keitel bagged 39 goals in Colts football for East Perth in his bottom age year, along with an average of five marks per game. He particularly caught attention of recruiters in the 2013 National Championships, rotating through the ruck and up forward with appearances down back. Fast-forward to 2014, and Keitel is still playing Colts football, with an average of two goals and five marks per game. In terms of his abilities as a key position prospect, his recovery is fantastic: if he goes to ground, he bounces straight back up, and has a willingness to play high half forward, which is a natural instinct that has stemmed from when he was a smaller flanker. He is mobile and athletic, and has a terrific leap at the ball. With those traits alone, he is highly regarded as a player who could mature into a damaging swingman at the next level. In defence, he is aggressive and physical, given he spoils well and doesn’t mind body-on-body scraps in a duelling contest: he demonstrated this when he played on both Patrick McCartin and Darcy Moore. Keitel has a lot of swagger about him, possessing a certain cockiness and arrogance in small doses that you want out of your key forward or defender. He has confidence, is quite adept at holding his own. Overall, he strikes me as your second best key forward or defender as opposed to the number one, which is why he falls down the order fractionally.

Pick 42 – Aidan Anderson
Position: Forward
Height: 182 cm, Weight: 83 kg, DOB: 10/08/1996
Club: Swan Districts
Projected draft range: 30-rookie
Player comparison: Steven Motlop
A really unique prospect who offers a little bit from column ‘A’ and a little bit of column ‘B’, sitting somewhere between a Jamie Elliott and a Steven Motlop type. He doesn’t have the speed of Motlop, but has the x-factor of Elliott, possessing great elevation when throwing himself at the ball while also pouncing upon the ball super quick, rarely going to ground. He produced good numbers at the championships, showing off his elusive nature and a terrific sidestep and snap that proves deadly around goal. He can take a contested grab and is really powerful in the air: however, he could be better below his knees in terms of that one-hand pick-up polish, although that will come once he’s in an AFL environment. During the champs he showed that he could shake off a tackle and move into dangerous positions to attract the ball. In particular, he’s a really clean kick around goals, but just lacks the versatility at this stage to have him higher up the order.

Pick 58: Western Bulldogs – Zaine Cordy
Position: Key defender
Height: 193 cm, Weight: 80 kg, DOB: 27/10/1996
Club: Geelong Falcons
Projected draft range: 3rd/4th round Father/Son Selection
Player comparison: Andy Otten
Simply put, Zaine Cordy is a really smart, no frills defender who controls play with clean disposal and a strong marking ability. Cordy’s start to the TAC Cup season had him labelled the best utility in the competition, before school football meant he was gone for the remainder of the year. Cordy, who bodies up strongly, puts a strict leash on his opponent. Having gone toe-to-toe with Peter Wright earlier in the year, he beat him on 10 occasions, before superior ball use meant Wright eventually got the better of him. At AFL level, Cordy is probably seen as the second to third key defender. He is swift with his ball movement by foot and by hand, repelling attacks with long raking kicks, and has versatility in his role given his closing speed. He has also developed a tendency for backing himself to run off his man and create from half back, where his underrated pace and ability to evade and put boot to ball makes him tricky to stop

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Pick 7 -Lever /GWS they need a CHB

It's funny, I can think of another side that needs a CHB too....

While I know you like the sound of Duggan and Vickers-Willis neither of them have the talent that Lever does. As well as this, no matter how a player looks or sounds, a player taken in the 20s has a much lesser chance of making it than one in the top ten.

Put it in perspective: would you trade Oliver Wines for Tim Broomhead and Marco Paparone, for instance?

I can see your train of thought and am not against downgrading for two picks but:

1. We need a CHB more than GWS do.
2. Picks 20 and 23 are just too low to make it a fair deal.

 

[Godogs247]

It's funny, I can think of another side that needs a CHB too....

Never again will you be able to swap with a team like GWS they need to get rid of players so have pics they dont need..

Time is now solid draft up to 45

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Never again will you be able to swap with a team like GWS they need to get rid of players so have pics they dont need..

Time is now solid draft up to 45

Edited my post to add a bit more. I don't see it being a good deal for us.

 

[maddog37]

I would rather trade Dal than Hrovat. ( not that I want go trade either)

We need more good ball users and Hrovat is a good ball user.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Given the situation we're in, Lever > anyone we can get at 20 and 23.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Draft time is exciting!

 

[Dav1d]

makes for interesting listening

 

[Igloo]

Keep this thread about draft discussion please.

 

[Godogs247]

This kid could be a steal
– Lucas WebbPosition: Midfielder/forward
Height: 186 cm, Weight: 83 kg, DOB: 03/04/1996
Club: Gippsland Power
Projected draft range: 50-rookie
Player comparison: Jordan Lewis

A really solid midfielder/forward, Lucas Webb is really classy in and among the stoppages. However, he is also a confidence-type player who really needs those strong early touches to really help him set up his game. Known for kicking those four quick goals for Vic Country against Western Australia in the final game of the Championships, Webb is a really crafty player who has a lot to offer. At the Power this year, he’s been used predominantly in the midfield, but he is no stranger near goal as demonstrated by his performances at the carnival. He is a really strong marker of the ball, whether it is around the ground or inside 50, and he marks more often than not above his head or out in front. Webb also has vice-like hands, which sees him rarely fumble the ball. He’s quite a burly kid and still young in facets of his game: he has strong composure and a physical presence around the stoppages, but looms as someone that’ll need a few years of strong state-level football before an AFL debut.

 

[Wizard17]

One that hasn't been talked up a lot is Daniel McKenzie from Oakleigh. Not sure I've seen him in many if not any Phantoms but he has had a very good year off halfback.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

So no love for Goddard.

 

[Dry Rot]

Where's Goddard in all this?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Where's Goddard in all this?

Later in the piece. Hasn't had a fantastic year. Has the tools to be a viable key position defender who can swing forward at stages but I doubt he becomes a dominant player at either end. Most likely slots in somewhere between pick 13 and pick 20 I'd say.

 

[Wizard17]

Our pick is too high worth a pick between 13-20

So no love for Goddard.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Our pick is too high worth a pick between 13-20

He's not staging to get picked up by his team of choice?

 

[Dav1d]

He's not staging to get picked up by his team of choice?

if he is, would you really want him then?

could end up packing his bags and leaving and we probably wouldn't even be compensated

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Anyway Pelchem was on Sen last and stated Saints are going for best available is that going to be Petracca?

I am not so convinced that Brisbane will go for a ff with Freeman, paparone, Close, they seem to have options, perhaps needing KPD more?

Carlton if the finish below us need mids the have Lucas, Walker, Casboult is a ff on their shopping list? Melbourne have Dawes and Hogan but their midfield is pathetic apart from Crossy do they go for a FF really there is a lot of unknowns.

 

[Dry Rot]

Later in the piece. Hasn't had a fantastic year. Has the tools to be a viable key position defender who can swing forward at stages but I doubt he becomes a dominant player at either end. Most likely slots in somewhere between pick 13 and pick 20 I'd say.

Thanks. Funny how they move up and down - he was touted as a #1 pick 12 months ago IIRC.

 

[Dav1d]

Thanks. Funny how they move up and down - he was touted as a #1 pick 12 months ago IIRC.

apparently Peter Wright was to
and had been for several years, always must have been a big lad

would love to be able to get him, as unlikely as it seems
developing our own over selling the farm for a KPF is my much much preferred option

 

[igloo dweller]

From everything I have read Petracca is the number1 pick so at worst we would get McCartin.

agree that seems the state of play right now, but petracca is far from a consensus #1...everything we read this time last year didn't have us linked with bontempelli either. grundy was a sure fire top three.

i just find the scenario a bit of a stretch - if higggins leaves, if we turn two second rounders into a mid first, if we turn a mid first and our first into a pick~ 3, to pick wright if he is available. and if he's not we'd have used two second rounders and our first rounder on a petracca or a brayshaw (while good players, neither fill needs desparately) or durdin.

if peter's your lad, and you're going to do all that work to ensure him, i'd be sweet talking the saints, not GWS.

 

[Leezorr]

agree that seems the state of play right now, but petracca is far from a consensus #1...everything we read this time last year didn't have us linked with bontempelli either. grundy was a sure fire top three.

i just find the scenario a bit of a stretch - if higggins leaves, if we turn two second rounders into a mid first, if we turn a mid first and our first into a pick~ 3, to pick wright if he is available. and if he's not we'd have used two second rounders and our first rounder on a petracca or a brayshaw (while good players, neither fill needs desparately) or durdin.

if peter's your lad, and you're going to do all that work to ensure him, i'd be sweet talking the saints, not GWS.

Yeah, you are correct it is a lot of if's, While i highly doubt this would happen, this is about the only way i could see us getting access to one of the decent KPF in the draft without us selling one of our prized kids. A man can always dream.