List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[TBOW]

Forgive the pun but I think you're selling Libba short. Watch Year of the Dog he was specifically mentioned as losing a yard because of age. So safe to say I acknowledge your point but respectfully disagree.

Libba is just one example of short-sightedness (sorry did it again) of AFL recruiting. Never say never in this industry.

I'll have to take your word on Libba losing speed, I only started going to the footy regularly in the mid 90's so don't remember early 90's Tony. I'm sure there was a lot more degenerative wear & tear back then too.

I'm not saying never on Caleb by any means. All I'm saying is that for him to make it he needs to be just as special as Libba or Boomer and I'm just questioning whether he is.

 

[Testekill]

Hopefully Greenwood will just be sticking around with Footscray. Only so much that you can get out of a player like him.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

I'm not talking about when we're in possession - if he works hard enough to create space (which he does) he won't get involved in too many offensive marking contests. But defensively, the ball will be directed to his opponent again and again because they can just stick their arms up in the air and watch as Daniel helplessly swats at their arms at chest-height.

Ball retention is, at the moment, the most successful and efficient game style. Gone are the Geelong days of working hard to get the ball back and shooting the ball back up the middle. It's now about winning the ball and playing 'keepings off' until there's an opportunity to score. Big midfielders are becoming all the rage as it effectively breaks up this tactic - if you can't rely on your midfielders to win aerial contests against taller players, ball retention becomes impossible for long enough stints to score. With midfielders getting taller and taller in order to combat this game style (and the talent-laden expansion sides) a player of Daniel's height just doesn't meet the physical requirements of recruiters. He's got bucket loads of talent but you can't realistically expect him to compete in an AFL midfield as more and more teams seek to follow the Fremantle model into the future.

We're basically in agreeance, i'm just a little more glass-full with him, but it's for all thsoe reasons you mentioned that he'll be taken very late, if at all.

Just looked at the BF P/Draft though, he was pick 29!! What was that about?

Nice picks for us btw Dan, be a great draft if they all fell.

 

[yebiga]

I can recall a number coaches trying to exploit liber snr s height by isolating him with his opponent alone deep in their forward line. . Didn't work once
Liber would use his lower center of gravity to maneuver his opponent under the ball

 

[doggies ftw]

Everyone loves tall mids at the moment but does it eventually go the other way? I.e will players get too tall across the park that someone like Daniels can just be an absolute nightmare to deal with?

 

[Dav1d]

Everyone loves tall mids at the moment but does it eventually go the other way? I.e will players get too tall across the park that someone like Daniels can just be an absolute nightmare to deal with?

Not every tall midfielder will make it

as convinced as some are about Kyle Langford, I'm not convinced at all
lack of swag? but something definitely seems off about him

 

[goodcop badcop]

Tony Liberatore didnt get pushed around

Different body shape

 

[immortalmike]

I'll have to take your word on Libba losing speed, I only started going to the footy regularly in the mid 90's so don't remember early 90's Tony. I'm sure there was a lot more degenerative wear & tear back then too.

I'm not saying never on Caleb by any means. All I'm saying is that for him to make it he needs to be just as special as Libba or Boomer and I'm just questioning whether he is.

All absolutely fair enough. Enjoyed the discussion.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

We're basically in agreeance, i'm just a little more glass-full with him, but it's for all thsoe reasons you mentioned that he'll be taken very late, if at all.

Just looked at the BF P/Draft though, he was pick 29!! What was that about?

Nice picks for us btw Dan, be a great draft if they all fell.

Just differing opinions, really. I don't differ too far from the people who see him as having the talent to be worth a pick around there, to be honest. My biggest point of difference from those people is that I don't like the argument that, "If he was 10cm taller, he'd be a..." A lot seem to deem height to be some extraneous factor that bears no relevance to talent but I just don't buy it. If Daniel grew 10cm there's a possibility that he'd lose his advantage at ground-level over others in his role, thus making him an Alex Greenwood type - ie. not a good enough contested ball winner to be an inside, clearance-winning midfielder at AFL level, nor damaging enough to play on the outside. Yes, the kid has talent - but you have to factor his height into that, rather than pushing it to the side and saying, "Well, it's a problem, but it has no bearing on his talent." Unfortunately, in today's game, a player Daniel's height is a complete and utter defensive liability in my mind. You simply can't have players with such a glaring weakness in their game and expect it not to be exploited. He may prove me wrong but I just struggle to see how, as a coach, you can justify giving up pretty much a minimum of 10cm through the midfield every single week.

Everyone loves tall mids at the moment but does it eventually go the other way? I.e will players get too tall across the park that someone like Daniels can just be an absolute nightmare to deal with?

It does if recruiters become obsessed with height and start forgetting the point of it all in the first place; ie. they start recruiting 190cm baboons in the place of a 180cm natural footballer. For the most part, though, we're seeing a new breed of midfielders that are 185cm+ and can compete with most smaller players down low, thus negating the smaller player's biggest advantage. A 190cm can compete with a 180cm guy at ground-level through talent, body positioning and flexibility - but there's little within the rules of the game that allow a 180cm bloke to compete with a 190cm guy in the air.

 

[Dav1d]

Dannnnnnnnnn I hope Dal is following your posts

the only shorter player that I agree compliments our list best is Garlett

not convinced on McDonald yet

Do you have list of how you rate the players? Beyond obviously where our picks are

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dannnnnnnnnn I hope Dal is following your posts

I hope he isn't, he knows a hell of a lot more than me.

Not really anything concrete, more just a general idea of ranges. I'm focusing on juggling my write-ups in the phantom and exam study at the minute but once that's done I'll try to get something up.

 

[Dav1d]

I hope he isn't, he knows a hell of a lot more than me.

Not really anything concrete, more just a general idea of ranges. I'm focusing on juggling my write-ups in the phantom and exam study at the minute but once that's done I'll try to get something up.

When do exams finish? and I just hope that he doesn't get too adventurous with our earliest picks

because he has a few, he might be tempted to go with a player not yet discussed

Gore or Garlett would be good though

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

When do exams finish? and I just hope that he doesn't get too adventurous with our earliest picks

because he has a few, he might be tempted to go with a player not yet discussed

Gore or Garlett would be good though

Last one's next Wednesday afternoon.

Bontempelli was a relatively adventurous pick. As long as it's not a Christian Howard type reach I'm not going to be too disappointed regardless of which way we go - our recruiters watch a lot more of these guys and have a lot more experience identifying talent than I do. I follow the U18s as a hobby; I'd certainly back our recruiting staff's choices over mine/Bigfooty's. Will be just as excited no matter who we pick on draft night, really.

 

[Dav1d]

Last one's next Wednesday afternoon.

Bontempelli was a relatively adventurous pick. As long as it's not a Christian Howard type reach I'm not going to be too disappointed regardless of which way we go - our recruiters watch a lot more of these guys and have a lot more experience identifying talent than I do. I follow the U18s as a hobby; I'd certainly back our recruiting staff's choices over mine/Bigfooty's. Will be just as excited no matter who we pick on draft night, really.

not that adventurous in my opinion

every game he played, he just seemed to get better

he is like a Sayian, the more 'battles' he has; the better gets

if its true that we've interview Menadue/Gore, I hope that means
we're trying to address the pace of our midfield

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Last one's next Wednesday afternoon.

Bontempelli was a relatively adventurous pick. As long as it's not a Christian Howard type reach I'm not going to be too disappointed regardless of which way we go - our recruiters watch a lot more of these guys and have a lot more experience identifying talent than I do. I follow the U18s as a hobby; I'd certainly back our recruiting staff's choices over mine/Bigfooty's. Will be just as excited no matter who we pick on draft night, really.

Do you have any early favourites?

I'm careful not to latch onto any players we haven't yet drafted, but I like Menadue and McDonald. It'll be interesting to see who is celebrating on draft night, haha.

 

[Dav1d]

I hope our late picks are all talls to be honest

strike it lucky and get another gun KPP, even if the others are only depth players
and suddenly the side looks a helluva load better

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Do you have any early favourites?

I'm careful not to latch onto any players we haven't yet drafted, but I like Menadue and McDonald. It'll be interesting to see who is celebrating on draft night, haha.

Menadue and Garlett are two personal favourites of mine that are most likely to be around at our picks. Garlett for his two-way running/defensive awareness (which is pretty unusual for a player as dynamic as he is) and Menadue simply because I feel he's flown under the radar a bit and is streets ahead of a few of the more favoured late first/early second rounders as BF perceives them to be (eg. Ellis, Lamb). Later on/early rookie I'm a big fan of Josh McGuinness. Also like Mitch McGovern but I see him as a rookie prospect.

I got too attached to Lever this year so I've learned my lesson.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Menadue and Garlett are two personal favourites of mine that are most likely to be around at our picks. Garlett for his two-way running/defensive awareness (which is pretty unusual for a player as dynamic as he is) and Menadue simply because I feel he's flown under the radar a bit and is streets ahead of a few of the more favoured late first/early second rounders as BF perceives them to be (eg. Ellis, Lamb). Later on/early rookie I'm a big fan of Josh McGuinness. Also like Mitch McGovern but I see him as a rookie prospect.

I got too attached to Lever this year so I've learned my lesson.

I haven't really seen enough of Garlett, but I'll back your judgement and that of a few other draft followers. It sounds like he'd be good value at our first.

I'm a big Menadue fan, though. I've had a couple of people try to tell me that he's no good, but I'd be thrilled if we picked him up at 26 - he was being talked about as a mid-late first rounder earlier in the year, and I think he'd really complement midfielders like Liberatore, Wallis, Hrovat, etc. Watching him burst away at speed from a pack was fantastic, it's good to see he's not short of confidence.

McGuinness is one I like - in no small part because he'll come cheap (compared to some of the rebounding defenders we've selected...), but I like his height, vision and ball-winning ability. I'm glad we've brought in a few extra picks, just to nab value selections like him.

I am a bit sad that we won't be participating in the first round. It's exciting having a top ten pick, and it creates a bit more interest in the selections before and after our own. Although, GWS do hold three picks in the top ten, so who knows what could happen in the next year or two?

 

[TempleKelvington]

Nobody's talking about Daniel going up against the tallest ruckman in the game though. We're talking about him going up against your average 180-185cm midfielder who he's giving up a massive 13-18 centimetres to. Not to mention the likes of Fyfe, Kennedy, Watson, Bontempelli, etc.

I love the big bodied mids, but it not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Dalhaus is a great example of a player who despite his size, scraps away and never gives up. Daniel is better skilled than Luke and more of a pure mid.

Daniel is that sort of player, yeah he is very small but he has plenty of fight, amazing athletic ability and is superbly skilled. He's like Tony liberatore with more speed, endurance and skill. Tony was a great player, this kid should be better. Can't have too many good players, but of course it depends who else is available at our picks. I'd have him in my top 5 picks for us I reckon.

Yes. He wasn't supposed to make it in the nineties. Yet he won a Brownlow.
He only became a tagger because he got old.

Yeah he got written off his whole career, too small, too slow, can't kick and they even said he would never sire a kid as good a footballer as Tom.

Is touk miller better than Daniel?

I think Daniel is better. I like Miller too. I wouldn't pick both, but if I had to choose I would take Daniel because I rate his skills.

 

[fronkalicious]

Is it possible that one of menadue, macdonald or gore is available at 39??? Think they're the 3 Id like at this point.

 

[yarm]

Boekhorst from Swan Districts? Could well be the outside run we want, he's not soft or shy of a goal, but quick and loves to move. He is also happy to get his hands dirty but does well to get loose and is damaging.

I might except that if you weren't from Swan Districts yourself

I thought Vickers-Willis would suit Carlton actually

didn't you actually have an interview with him already? I've heard that he is supposed to be really intelligent

the Bulldogs have Darley & Biggs & JJ who won't all play in the backline, so there is some run there

looking at Knightmares Phantom, has us taking loads of running types

Seriously? No really? Seriously?

 

[Dav1d]

I might except that if you weren't from Swan Districts yourself


Seriously? No really? Seriously?

Okay pal, but I don't come on your boards posting crap

 

[Tommycash]

Yes, yes, Daniel as a late pick/rookie. I love short players. Just look at Boykins in the NBA or indeed Harvey in the AFL to see that sometimes these shorter guys can be absolute jets.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

What are Daniel's chances of making it as a crumbing forward?

I agree with others in that a 167cm mid will often be exposed as a liability, but could he find a place at the feet of Boyd and Stringer? By all reports, he reads the play well, positions himself well to receive the ball and disposes of it well. Could be the logical next step for him at AFL level, rather than playing off stoppages and being ragdolled when he's isolated.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Anyone remember a 163cm player by the name of tony liberators?
And this tony dude was slower and couldn't kick either
The more I think about it
I have no issue using pick 27

People tend to forget that Libba won his Brownlow and was a gun when the grounds were less flat tracks than they are now.
He loved the wet and the mud, I doubt he would have survived in the game long term if the game was played on the pristine fast decks of today.
The wind and contested game that was played at The Western Oval was where he loved it.
Just Saying