List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

Nicko29

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Considering how much list space we've freed up, I think its worth facilitating a trade between North and St Kilda for Dal Santo, where North get Nicky Dal, St Kilda get our first round pick and we get St Kilda's 2nd and 3rd round picks (21 and 37 I think) and North's 2nd rounder (pick 26?), which would give us 4 picks between 20-40, though we would likely give up all hope of securing Gardiner.
 

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Sydney had a huge amount of injuries and their young players are just as good as ours.

I'd say Geelong and Sydney are in a pretty similar position, having to manage a transition in eras.
Their young players may be as good - I'm not sure now but prior to this year they had used them far less than we had (I just remember going through those numbers). I'm not sure how the numbers stack up now but their list of players yet to debut was huge before this year.

Obviously they've brought in some good younger ones but I reckon they're heading for a cliff and Buddy won't help that.
 

AM

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Even at 'ordinary' Duncan is a well worth while player. I've reached the conclusion in the past week that a lot of Cats fans are spoiled rotten. They expect a 20 year old to be like Selwood was and a 22 year old to be like Bartel was. These young guys like Duncs, Bundy, GHS, Mots, Smedts etc still comprise the best young mid-field/ small forward group in the league. Only Collingwood's young group goes close IMO. A few teams like Sydney are heading for big problems - belatedly starting to bring a few through this year - in that area compared to us, but our fans have still been criticising the young'ns

Duncs has just been slightly missing passes this year, but he'll be OK once it gels
My issue with him this year is that he doesn't win nearly enough contested ball. With Smithy gone he'll need to improve markedly in that area in my view.
 
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Um rioli will be 25 next season. You want to add selwood and Hawkins in there as well? He clearly isn't youth anymore, his in the prime of his career

So they have brad hill Gunston and Luke bruest. Then after that you have Anderson and pretty much nothing I'd really want or rate

If you think gunston breust hill Anderson hallahan grimley are as good or on par with vardy horlin smith Duncan caddy Guthrie Christensen kersten smedts thurlow then you need to re think

I know it's all hawthorn are the top shelf to look up at right now, but their premiership was 0% due to anything youth dons there, in a year or so when Father Time creeps up on the likes of hodge Mitchell Burgoyne hale lake, they are going to be in a lot of trouble
I don't think they will be in a lot of trouble but I think they lack the depth of their second tier. I think they can mange their way through that. I'd rate Sydney as further behind in that regard
 

Boxhead_31

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Considering how much list space we've freed up, I think its worth facilitating a trade between North and St Kilda for Dal Santo, where North get Nicky Dal, St Kilda get our first round pick and we get St Kilda's 2nd and 3rd round picks (21 and 37 I think) and North's 2nd rounder (pick 26?), which would give us 4 picks between 20-40, though we would likely give up all hope of securing Gardiner.
Considering that everyone is saying the draft drops off massively after the top 15 why would we do that?
 
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My issue with him this year is that he doesn't win nearly enough contested ball. With Smithy gone he'll need to improve markedly in that area in my view.
If you compare him to Smithy yes. I see him more as a Johnson replacement (if you could ever replace Stevie J) with Caddy and GHS as the future Smithies. And yes before you say so, he's a very different style to SJ - he's the guy running through to propel the ball forward. Just this year too many of those missed their mark.

I wondered if he was just trying too much
 

AM

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If you compare him to Smithy yes. I see him more as a Johnson replacement (if you could ever replace Stevie J) with Caddy and GHS as the future Smithies. And yes before you say so, he's a very different style to SJ - he's the guy running through to propel the ball forward. Just this year too many of those missed their mark.

I wondered if he was just trying too much
His efficiency rate isn't the area that needs the most attention in my view. It was reasonable this year.

In today's game you need to get your own ball too. When it's your turn to go, you go. That's what Mitch needs to add to his game. SJ gets plenty of contested ball btw.
 

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Jimmy Yamazaki

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Even at 'ordinary' Duncan is a well worth while player. I've reached the conclusion in the past week that a lot of Cats fans are spoiled rotten. They expect a 20 year old to be like Selwood was and a 22 year old to be like Bartel was. These young guys like Duncs, Bundy, GHS, Mots, Smedts etc still comprise the best young mid-field/ small forward group in the league. Only Collingwood's young group goes close IMO. A few teams like Sydney are heading for big problems - belatedly starting to bring a few through this year - in that area compared to us, but our fans have still been criticising the young'ns

Duncs has just been slightly missing passes this year, but he'll be OK once it gels
You only just noticed?:eek:

The hate for Caddy was abundant in the first half of the year, took his goal vs our most hated rivals the Hawks in round 15 for some to think he might be worth a damn....
 

Baudolino

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If you think gunston breust hill Anderson hallahan grimley are as good or on par with vardy horlin smith Duncan caddy Guthrie Christensen kersten smedts thurlow then you need to re think
That's not the claim I'm making.

I'm disputing the overall premise of your argument, which is the assertion "we have stacks of improvement, [whereas] hawthorn don't have any to come". If you want to exclude Rioli from the potential improvement discussion then fine by me, although personally I find it fanciful to suggest Cyril has no further room for improvement.

Broadly speaking, I do happen to rate our group of young players higher than Hawthorn's - especially in terms of depth of talent - but it's certainly not a wide gap when you put the respective top five u-23's head to head.

Christensen - 22
Duncan - 22
Motlop - 22
Vardy - 22
Guthrie - 21

Breust - 22
Gunston - 21
Hill - 20
Shoenmakers - 22
Shiels - 22
 
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His efficiency rate isn't the area that needs the most attention in my view. It was reasonable this year.

In today's game you need to get your own ball too. When it's your turn to go, you go. That's what Mitch needs to add to his game. SJ gets plenty of contested ball btw.
If he could add more of a contested side to his game he could become an outstanding player. I'm not sure he has it in him. I hope so.

If he can't, then he has to be more efficient with his ball use on the outside.
 

Neddy1

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Can I ask all Mods to please remove all unflattering posts regarding Trent West as we all work together in getting him to StKilda.
Can I also ask everyone who hasn't been banned from the Saints forums to please stop in and show our rage and disgust at the very though of them trying to "steal" our Westy
 

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I don't think they will be in a lot of trouble but I think they lack the depth of their second tier. I think they can mange their way through that. I'd rate Sydney as further behind in that regard
I think they will drop well out of the 8, I really don't rate the kids they have at all. Once it comes time for a lot of them To step up in the older players absence soon I think they will really struggle.

Everyone is talking up them flying their draft picks out the window or first rounders and how amazing it is for mature players, well it's going to come back and bite them very soon I believe once a few of their older brigade fall off the perch
 

Nicko29

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That's not the claim I'm making.

I'm disputing the overall premise of your argument, which is the assertion "we have stacks of improvement, [whereas] hawthorn don't have any to come". If you want to exclude Rioli from the potential improvement discussion then fine by me, although personally I find it fanciful to suggest Cyril has no further room for improvement.

Broadly speaking, I do happen to rate our group of young players higher than Hawthorn's - especially in terms of depth of talent - but it's certainly not a wide gap when you put the respective top five u-23's head to head.

Christensen - 22
Duncan - 22
Motlop - 22
Vardy - 22
Guthrie - 21

Breust - 22
Gunston - 21
Hill - 20
Shoenmakers - 22
Shiels - 22
Our two groups are not even close. Bundy is easily better than Breust (though Breust is a great forward), Duncan and Gunston are about level, Motlop and Hill don't make me laugh, Schoenmakers? Really (though Vardy is probably at the same level at the moment but I rate him a lot higher and Shiels has nothing on Guthrie. Only two I rate from their lot is Gunston and Breust the rest are pretty average.
 

Bobby_

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The hate for Caddy was abundant in the first half of the year, took his goal vs our most hated rivals the Hawks in round 15 for some to think he might be worth a damn....
your right on that one. Many said he couldn't kick to save himself, decision making is a real concern, he's not going to make it etc but you could tell from day one at the club that he had something special and he went on with that as the year progressed.

Outright champion in the making and will be a similar player to that of Josh Kennedy of Sydney by 2016ish.
 
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His efficiency rate isn't the area that needs the most attention in my view. It was reasonable this year.

In today's game you need to get your own ball too. When it's your turn to go, you go. That's what Mitch needs to add to his game. SJ gets plenty of contested ball btw.
Agree. And one of Stevie J's best tricks is where he goes straight at the ball in the arms of the other player, he spins and comes away with the stripped ball ... he got suspended for trying that this year :confused:. MRP said "he had other options" ... yep - I'm sure Stevie never considers the available options :mad: ... sorry you just gave me a flashback
 

Jimmy Yamazaki

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your right on that one. Many said he couldn't kick to save himself, decision making is a real concern, he's not going to make it etc but you could tell from day one at the club that he had something special and he went on with that as the year progressed.

Outright champion in the making and will be a similar player to that of Josh Kennedy of Sydney by 2016ish.

Yeah he is only 20, much like lots of our kids, he will need time to develop, but I like what he did in his first year at the Cats.
 
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Our two groups are not even close. Bundy is easily better than Breust (though Breust is a great forward), Duncan and Gunston are about level, Motlop and Hill don't make me laugh, Schoenmakers? Really (though Vardy is probably at the same level at the moment but I rate him a lot higher and Shiels has nothing on Guthrie. Only two I rate from their lot is Gunston and Breust the rest are pretty average.
I don't have a problem with those players for what they are and I don't want to get into pissin contests with Hawks fans about who's better. My question is, which of those Whoreks is going to GET the ball. They're all 'wide receivers' perhaps with the exception of Shiels - but I'm doubtful on him too.

At least Bundy and Guthrie are dead set ball winners and Duncan does nearly his share of that too.

When Hodge and Mitchell are done, where's their next one in?
 
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