2014 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

[Turbocat]

I reckon they'd be the ones making the choice or choices, not us, or there wouldn't be a trade. we could try to influence, but that's about it.
Hey! you can only try.

Sure they can nominate but we don't have to agree, so it must be someone they would accept and someone we could live without. And thats the issue I don't see any middle ground type players. The only way I can see it happening would be with a 3rd party and thats even more complex. Perhaps a club that would accept a couple good young fringe players and a R2 for a R1

 

[meto]

Sure they can nominate but we don't have to agree, so it must be someone they would accept and someone we could live without. And thats the issue I don't see any middle ground type players. The only way I can see it happening would be with a 3rd party and thats even more complex. Perhaps a club that would accept a couple good young fringe players and a R2 for a R1

That would be the way, unless they want bad boy Billie Smedts I would do that.

 

[Turbocat]

That would be the way, unless they want bad boy Billie Smedts I would do that.

I dont really want to go down the name path at this time of the year , I hope BS has a long future at Geelong but logic says you don't get a silk purse from a sow's ear...it must be someone we value. it must be someone other value and the others must have something that can get the deal done. ie a Top10 R1 min.

 

[meto]

I dont really want to go down the name path at this time of the year , I hope BS has a long future at Geelong but logic says you don't get a silk purse from a sow's ear...it must be someone we value. it must be someone other value and the others must have something that can get the deal done. ie a Top10 R1 min.

So do I really, but he's in the age bracket and was a Rd1 draftee, has played well pre season, I think we'd trade multiple players for Kade who afterall is an unknown as yet.

 

[Turbocat]

So do I really, but he's in the age bracket and was a Rd1 draftee, has played well pre season, I think we'd trade multiple players for Kade who afterall is an unknown as yet.

I guess it depends on how we rate our list. The 2014 draft is full of talls , If we rate our talls trading for player could be a smart play.

 

[Turbocat]

Well with an apparent injury to Kersten & Vardys knee do we have enough options in the key forward spot. I know the draft will be full of talls , quality one will be gone by our pick..McCartin for example. So , do we start looking at mature guys again? These injuries are starting to scramble my brain.

 

[JPod_31]

This is what i would do.
Smedts + 1st pick and 3rd pick for Cameron?

 

[Turbocat]

This is what i would do.
Smedts + 1st pick and 3rd pick for Cameron?

I think all can forget Cameron. He will be going nowhere. Can Patton and Boyd work? Long term they will need another ruck option in the side , perhaps one of those is getable. Honestly with the amount of KPP in this draft I wonder what GWS will do.

 

[meto]

I guess it depends on how we rate our list. The 2014 draft is full of talls , If we rate our talls trading for player could be a smart play.

I don't think talls are our strength, the Suns on the other hand are carrying a couple they don't need, that just makes a case for them keeping

I think all can forget Cameron. He will be going nowhere. Can Patton and Boyd work? Long term they will need another ruck option in the side , perhaps one of those is getable. Honestly with the amount of KPP in this draft I wonder what GWS will do.

I think some people have to get over the phobia of to many talls, the way we're travelling we'll have none.
The game has gotten taller.

 

[Turbocat]

I think some people have to get over the phobia of to many talls, the way we're travelling we'll have none.
The game has gotten taller.

Thats a good point , KB's that used to be ruck size , mids that used to be KP size.So again I ask , especially with a history of so many injuries to our talls why didn't we put a Rookie ruck/kpp on for our list pick rather than a sub 180 player. Darcy Cameron or Darcy Fort or some other player I cant immediately think of.

 

[Jon Douglas]

Regardless of who we have in mind for draft swaps, which do not seem to happen that often at GFC, we are again faced with some big decisions come the ND 2014.

As far as the Rookie draft I think that Sherringham will go and we will get one more Rookie and keep our selections from this Rookie draft as they look ok so far (that is from reports).

I cannot see us getting rid of Hartman as he needs at least 1 more season after this one to see what he can do.

For me the more obvious or probable contenders to go to make room for 3 selections is Stringer - and the rest look ok to me. I suspect this season will tell us a lot more.

Perhaps Enright will retire and maybe Jimmy as well. Not sure about Jimmy's contract status - I think he had a 5 year deal but I am not sure when that ends.

Walker has only just been upgraded from the Rookie list and we have tall forwards falling down all over the place so I suspect he is safe for this and next season.

Cowan and Menzel might be considered if they cannot show progress with their injuries and look like they may always be hampered by the injury curse. How long these days can you keep an injury prone player. No one's fault and no one wants to see these boys cut but time stands still for no club these days.

But my guess is that we will want 4 ND picks and 1 Rookie pick. So for me Stringer and 3 others and then Sherringham. Maybe 1 retirement (as I think they will want Lonergan to stay one more year as we do not have yet a player for his role unless one really excels this season) and then 2 other players will need be named - unless trade is struck.

Smedts better have good year as he is the obvious one to be traded but I am not sure he is worth much on the open market and so I see us as keeping him.

Again we face a lot of prognostications - who will make it and who will not ?

To me they will give Bews and McCarthy more time than just the 2014 season. Blicavs will be on the main list come 2015 - so who does that leave.

I think Varcoe will have decent year so he will probably be safe. Not many names left when you consider so many young guys on the list need time - like Hamling, Hartman, Kojo, Jansen, Lang, Toohey, etc.

Might be down to the last game this season before we know who might be cut. So much potential it seems but few have the runs on the board.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Priority a should be a sizeable offer to frawley.quality player,nil trade wise,fills an obvious need with lonergan and rivers old.

Gws will never let anyone get cameron,they will pay him the earth. But with him and patton and boyd,and some good rucks,they cannot keep all their talls as there isnt enough gametime for all.we should be talking to the managers of tomlinson,jaksch and plowman as we could prize one loose.

One way or another we need a key defender as a priority this year. Also another ruck,whether it is a young ruck or mature ruck will depend on whether hamish's body holds up. Fortunately this is looking like a very good draft for talls. I would cut deep on delisting some fringe mids like cowan stringer etc and go fishing for some good talls at draft time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This is what i would do.
Smedts + 1st pick and 3rd pick for Cameron?

You would need a top 5 pick (which we will not have) and a player like duncan to get near a trade for cameron. Even then they would not let him go.

Better to focus on their second tier kpps as they have great depth in kpps.

 

[Turbocat]

Priority a should be a sizeable offer to frawley.quality player,nil trade wise,fills an obvious need with lonergan and rivers old.

Gws will never let anyone get cameron,they will pay him the earth. But with him and patton and boyd,and some good rucks,they cannot keep all their talls as there isnt enough gametime for all.we should be talking to the managers of tomlinson,jaksch and plowman as we could prize one loose.

One way or another we need a key defender as a priority this year. Also another ruck,whether it is a young ruck or mature ruck will depend on whether hamish's body holds up. Fortunately this is looking like a very good draft for talls. I would cut deep on delisting some fringe mids like cowan stringer etc and go fishing for some good talls at draft time.

Seems a very smart tactical approach

I think this is River last year of contract so in theory if a player like Frawley was available.......
Quite right on the names mentioned , in theory they will be under utilized , highly talented and getable.

 

[meto]

Priority a should be a sizeable offer to frawley.quality player,nil trade wise,fills an obvious need with lonergan and rivers old.

Down back and up forward we need talls, if we can't pick em we need to trade. Why wasn't something done through Josh Hunt I know he was a free agent but surely some benefit to us could've been reached with GWS.
Hunt kicked Sydney arse the other night and we get squat for him? Surely broker a future deal or something, for C Jaksch or someone.

 

[Pivo]

OK since you mentioned it what do you think we would have to cough up. GC must sort reach a saturation point soon , how many good kids can they find a spot for (he asks hopefully) Im thinking R1 min depending on where we finish ( I suppose Tyson would be a good comparison). The trouble is they don't need any fringe players. Hard deal to get done.

Short answer is - more than I'd be willing to.

And this is the problem you face when you have sustained success, you no longer have the pieces to play with.

I still maintain, as unpopular as it is on this board, Varcoe is the only expendable piece of value we have. People seem to forget that to get something you have to give up something.

It is that simple.

The moment Taylor Adams said he'd be happy to go to Geelong OR Collingwood saw our chances of luring him dip. We simply didn't have the picks or the right player (who we were prepared to part with) to give up to satisfy GWS.

I personally don't think Varcoe buys us a guy like Kade Kolodjashnij (or a Troy Menzel for that matter).

Someone like Motlop probably buys you something pretty good but would anyone be prepared to do a deal Motlop after last year? I suspect not.

Duncan, Christensen and Guthrie all have value but trading them away just doesn't make sense as you are effectively robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Brown, Smedts, Thurlow and Hamling are recent top picks but none of them, I think, are likely to get deals for guys like Kolodjashnij and Menzel because they are either under-achievers (so far) or unknown.

Funny thing here, we are basically talking about trading IN guys who are pretty much unproven but using players of known quantity to get them...such are the quirks of trading.

After a couple of years, top draft picks usually start to decrease in value but right now guys like those we are discussing can still basically be traded on potential and junior form.

And I don't think we have the options available to seriously go after them. We might get lucky and a guy on the fringe might have a breakout year to add to our stocks but when players do that clubs are pretty reluctant to then go and trade them out.

 

[Pivo]

..and by the way quoting Luke Darcy...really?

"Say that again."

 

[Pivo]

This is what i would do.
Smedts + 1st pick and 3rd pick for Cameron?

These are always fun. Put the shoe on the other foot.

If you supported GWS and was offered this for Cameron would you take it?

I certainly wouldn't.

I don't really need the picks (especially a first round pick in the 9-15 vicinity - plus Cameron is worth more than that anyway - and a 3rd rounder is pretty meaningless) and Smedts offers nothing that I can't already find on the list.

Consider the names GWS have on their list - Coniglio, Greene, Shiel, Whitfield, Scully, Bugg, Treloar, O'Rouke, Smith, Kelly....f**k this is getting depressing.

They weren't real fussed letting Tyson and Adams walk away because they had cover (and got compensated).

I look at that list of names and think...why would I want to add Smedts??

 

[Pivo]

Thats a good point , KB's that used to be ruck size , mids that used to be KP size.So again I ask , especially with a history of so many injuries to our talls why didn't we put a Rookie ruck/kpp on for our list pick rather than a sub 180 player. Darcy Cameron or Darcy Fort or some other player I cant immediately think of.

I gather you mean 'another'.

James Toohey is 197cm and a key defender.

I get the injuries makes us look a bit silly only having 1 "tall" but I don't think you should be looking solely at the rookie list as the problem.

How about the limited exposure Brown has had in his time at Geelong - especially in the last couple of years? Would we have been better off pumping games into Brown instead of grabbing Rivers?

Do we think Hamling has really come on as quickly as we would have liked?

Should we have taken a project tall instead of Hartman?

Was Ben Johnson a good rookie selection back in '09?

Was not having a rookie selection in '12 the right decision & should we have made a play for Jordan Bourke under the f/s rule that same year?

Was moving Podsiadly on last year a good call?

Should we have pushed Brisbane for something better for Trent West earlier in the piece rather than waiting until the death?

It is all sliding doors stuff and you'll do your head in thinking about all the scenarios.

Hell, go back further with the aid of hindsight and convince yourself that Menzel was still the right call when Nat Fyfe went at #20 and Jake Carlisle went at #24 (and then flip it and consider Anthony Morabito went at #4, Brad Sheppard went at #7, John Butcher went at #8, Jordan Gysberts went at #11 and Christian Howard went at #15)

You make the calls based on what you know at the time.

At the time, I was pretty comfortable with the rookie selections, perhaps more comfortable with them than the senior selections.

Maybe the balance of the list isn't quite right or maybe the injuries have just hit the wrong players at the wrong time (like the ruckmen last year).

And last year people were bemoaning the lack of a ruckman on the rookie list.

We finished 2nd with a pretty ordinary ruck combination playing the majority of the season.

This year we've gone in with McIntosh and Simpson as the only recognised ruckmen. Vardy was earmarked for CHF and pinch hitting in ruck while Blicavs is being tried in various positions (and, I guess, pinch hitting in ruck at times).

West was moved on. Walker simply isn't a ruckman.

With McIntosh and Simpson up and running I don't see people complaining about a dearth of ruckmen this year though.

Funny that.

 

[Turbocat]

I gather you mean 'another'.

James Toohey is 197cm and a key defender.

....
With McIntosh and Simpson up and running I don't see people complaining about a dearth of ruckmen this year though.

Funny that.

Piv , I just trimmed all your questions , most have hit the spot....

another? Well firstly I have not forgotten that we have Toohey and although he may have rucked a bit in TAC I doubt he will ruck much in VFL/AFL (unless im mistaken but thats the way I see it). He was basically recruited as a long term back .

Just like last year I have a concern about ruck backup and thats why I mentioned Darcy Fort / Darcy Cameron. Yes we have lost our CHF in Vardy but we have lost or 3rd ruck as well. In the post quoted , I stated Ruck/KPP player thinking someone who could play ruck and KP but perhaps I should have also stated if it was just Rookie ruck I would have been happy. We luckily covered it last year thru West and Rookie Blitz , and my concern is we seem to have gambled it again. Just like we did with Hartman , we have recruited a player who will not be a realistic selection option for sometime. Bates who may end up being a huge win but as I see it , its a big roll of the dice to put a sub 180 player on our rookie list instead of grabbing a long term ruck option , perhaps one that can play both roles as most ruck have to now.

I named For and Cameron. Cameron probably is a long term ruck similar to Simpson but how does it hurt. My guess is we could name several rucks that have been passed over as long term development or mature Rookie types , and they would give us a bailout if worst comes to worst rather than playing Walker or whoever out of position. I remember the name Scott Jones at draft time but there must have been someone on this list that was an a legit option option , http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-18/big-boys-head-to-combine

 

[The rabbi]

Better to focus on their second tier kpps as they have great depth in kpps.

Agreed, there will be some absolute gun kids playing second fiddle at GWS and GC who would walk into other clubs in a season or two. They may see a better future elsewhere and clubs will oblige by talking to these kids with cheque books open.

 

[Turbocat]

Agreed, there will be some absolute gun kids playing second fiddle at GWS and GC who would walk into other clubs in a season or two. They may see a better future elsewhere and clubs will oblige by talking to these kids with cheque books open.

Care to name someone you would sell the farm for...? There will be good to handy no doubt but if they were guns wouldn't they be playing? Normally thats true but I wonder if the the creation up there truly will deprive a kid of immense potential the chance to shine. Could there be someone better than kid getting games at other clubs?

 

[year of the cat]

Consider the names GWS have on their list - Coniglio, Greene, Shiel, Whitfield, Scully, Bugg, Treloar, O'Rouke, Smith, Kelly....f**k this is getting depressing.

They weren't real fussed letting Tyson and Adams walk away because they had cover (and got compensated).

I look at that list of names and think...why whould I want to add Smedts??

I see a great opportunity here. As these kids come through they won't be able to keep them all. Some will leave for either more opportunity or a larger contract. Shiel or Treloar would be very high on my list.

How you get them though - now that is an entirely different question. I think you need to rely on the player nominating us and ONLY us which automatically gives us much needed leverage. We may be able to negotiate a trade that may be in our favour, albeit not a "steal".

Clearly though our first round pick, however high that might be, would have to be used to land a young gun such as those aforementioned players.

 

[Pivo]

I see a great opportunity here. As these kids come through they won't be able to keep them all. Some will leave for either more opportunity or a larger contract. Shiel or Treloar would be very high on my list.

How you get them though - now that is an entirely different question. I think you need to rely on the player nominating us and ONLY us which automatically gives us much needed leverage. We may be able to negotiate a trade that may be in our favour, albeit not a "steal".

Clearly though our first round pick, however high that might be, would have to be used to land a young gun such as those aforementioned players.

Treloar would be nice and I like O'Rourke but, without slipping down the ladder, we are always likely to get trumped unless, as you say, we are nominated as the only one desired.

I think Pure_Ownage is right, you try and pick off the (perceived) 2nd tier types.

 

[dazbroncos]

I see a great opportunity here. As these kids come through they won't be able to keep them all. Some will leave for either more opportunity or a larger contract. Shiel or Treloar would be very high on my list.

How you get them though - now that is an entirely different question. I think you need to rely on the player nominating us and ONLY us which automatically gives us much needed leverage. We may be able to negotiate a trade that may be in our favour, albeit not a "steal".

Clearly though our first round pick, however high that might be, would have to be used to land a young gun such as those aforementioned players.

You have to give to get and thats gonna be the hard part. Every club will probably be wanting to dine on the homesick kids as they come up and its gonna completely come down to the war chest available to get it done. They probably don't want older players much anymore as their list is full with pretty well sized and developed young ones. Younger players would be good but giving up Bundy to get Adams ( for e.g.) is just robbing peter to pay paul really.

So its picks and $$. And our picks are never gonna be that high presuming a presence in the 8 is maintained which is not beyond reason and we have cap space clearing with retirements etc but not that much nd we have to re-sign what we have on the list already….

Doable but gonna be hard… really hard…

Go Catters