Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

Marc_Remillard

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Exactly and the Saints were taking one of Petracca or McCartin but took the KPF for above reasons.

The amount of Melbourne fans taking shots at Paddy for this reason confuses me, as if we'd picked Petracca you'd have Paddy and the same people knocking him would be singing his praises.

Nah, the majority of Melbourne fans are defending him
 
Nov 13, 2005
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Just the 5 kicks yesterday which included kicking a point..

Should the saints be worried? 3rd year now and for a number 2 draft pick he is just not impacting games like i think he should.
 
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Just the 5 kicks yesterday which included kicking a point..

Should the saints be worried? 3rd year now and for a number 2 draft pick he is just not impacting games like i think he should.

Then perhaps you should rethink how he should be impacting games because your current line of thinking isn't good.

He's had a shocking run with injuries and being in and out of the side, it's going to take time to hit his straps. I see him following a similar path to Patton, once he gets an extended run injury free with some confidence he will begin to excel.

Also he was pick 1.
 

Murraj1966

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58% TOG was confusing although i did see him cop one in the back of the head in the 2nd quarter.

Our delivery yesterday was putrid though, so many long bombs to no advantage and 2v1 contests didn't help but Paddy would want to start either clunking more marks or playing beyond 35m from goal as his Field kicking is probably better than his goal kicking.
 
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Then perhaps you should rethink how he should be impacting games because your current line of thinking isn't good.

He's had a shocking run with injuries and being in and out of the side, it's going to take time to hit his straps. I see him following a similar path to Patton, once he gets an extended run injury free with some confidence he will begin to excel.

Also he was pick 1.
Hes had a injury free pre season and played all of the JTL series. I understand he had the heads knocks last year but that should have no bearing on this year. In terms of impacting games for once it would be handy if he could kick more then 2 goals a game. Boyd and Patton had already done this before they had reached 20 games. At the moment he plays like a traditional style country full forward. I am yet to see him really get on his bike and venture out from the 50 to get to contests and make an impact.
I too understand it takes time but for a number 1 draft pick so far hes been underwhelming. My opinion is that he'll be nothing but a good ordinary forward.


In saying that he'll probably come out and kick 5 this week and put egg on my face.
 
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I listened to some of yesterday's game, and the commentators were noting his inability to clunk marks, especially in wanting to wait for the ball to come onto his chest instead of taking it out in front of him. The argument was that you can understand lack of form, fitness, confidence, and experience....but that proper marking technique was Key Forward 101, and they were quite surprised that he was struggling with it.

They made a comparison with Hipwood, who had a similarly dirty day and was far too easy out-muscled and out-positioned. But the point was that Hipwood at least had the "technique" part sorted, all he needed was time to bulk up. Whereas McCartin's problem was something more fundamental.

I honestly haven't seen much of McCartin play, but is this something Saint fans (or others who have watched him a lot) have noticed? I'm hardly going to condemn the bloke first game back, but some of those comments did make me stop and think.
 

Murraj1966

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I wouldn't say that he had that many opportunities to be honest.

He was always either in a pack or 2v1. Takes a good mark 1v1 but he needs to put himself in that position more and not let Bruce lead out to 45 out 45 degree angle where he's gonna miss.
 

Glen Buterol

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Honest opinion from a Saints supporter. Selecting McCartin instead of Petracca is as baffling now as it was at the time. No hindsight required. Read any Saints threads pre draft that discuss us picking Petracca & the lead up to the leak we were leaning towards picking Paddy. Most Saints fans thought it was a troll the fact that we were even considering Paddy. The melt amongst fans ensued. After the draft fans obviously got behind Paddy & found positives.

In my opinion the Saints recruiters outsmarted themselves. They tried to find flaws in Petracca not to pick him. He's lazy. He's arrogant. He's selfish. All because the recruiters shat themselves when the Bulldogs shelled out big for Tom Boyd. The problem is the St Kilda recruiters failed to follow the fundamental rule of pick high end draft talent. They failed to pick best available.

Close to the draft all clubs recruiters were asked who they would pick at selection one. 16 clubs picked Petracca, one club Heeney & one club Paddy (obviously St Kilda). The scary thing is even those fans with a lay opinion on the matter clearly had Petracca ahead of Paddy but the professionals running the St Kilda club failed in their duties.

It's obviously too late now, the past is the past & I think Paddy becomes a pretty decent footballer when all is said & done. But Petracca becomes elite top five in the competition quality.

Just quickly on Billings, as it's been raised. Billings was clearly a top three talent. The Saints recruiters shouldn't be blamed for picking him ahead of Bont. Pretty sure 16 clubs would've done the same. Apparently only Collingwood & the Bulldogs had Bont so high. We don't even know if the Dogs would've picked Bont ahead of Billings if they had the option. The concern with Billings is why has he failed to develop/why has the club failed to develop him. Fourth year in, he needs to show more.
 

Schraderbrau

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Classic example of picking horses for courses (McCartin) versus picking the best available (Petracca). Although the problem for McCarten is that, at best, he's the third best key position prospect from that draft and to waste a no 1 pick for that result is very bad (without even considering how awesome Petracca is going to be)
 
Honest opinion from a Saints supporter. Selecting McCartin instead of Petracca is as baffling now as it was at the time. No hindsight required. Read any Saints threads pre draft that discuss us picking Petracca & the lead up to the leak we were leaning towards picking Paddy. Most Saints fans thought it was a troll the fact that we were even considering Paddy. The melt amongst fans ensued. After the draft fans obviously got behind Paddy & found positives.

In my opinion the Saints recruiters outsmarted themselves. They tried to find flaws in Petracca not to pick him. He's lazy. He's arrogant. He's selfish. All because the recruiters shat themselves when the Bulldogs shelled out big for Tom Boyd. The problem is the St Kilda recruiters failed to follow the fundamental rule of pick high end draft talent. They failed to pick best available.

Close to the draft all clubs recruiters were asked who they would pick at selection one. 16 clubs picked Petracca, one club Heeney & one club Paddy (obviously St Kilda). The scary thing is even those fans with a lay opinion on the matter clearly had Petracca ahead of Paddy but the professionals running the St Kilda club failed in their duties.

It's obviously too late now, the past is the past & I think Paddy becomes a pretty decent footballer when all is said & done. But Petracca becomes elite top five in the competition quality.

Just quickly on Billings, as it's been raised. Billings was clearly a top three talent. The Saints recruiters shouldn't be blamed for picking him ahead of Bont. Pretty sure 16 clubs would've done the same. Apparently only Collingwood & the Bulldogs had Bong so high. We don't even know if the Dogs would've picked Bong ahead of Billings if they had the option. The concern with Billings is why has he failed/why has the club failed to develop him. Fourth year in, he needs to show more.
Christ, this is shockingly sensible coming from you :p. Seriously though, McCartin and Bruce will be a very good 1-2 pair in a couple of years time. Forget about Bont and Petracca. This year's two first rounders need to be spent on good midfielders though, no excuses will cut it.
 

Glen Buterol

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Christ, this is shockingly sensible coming from you :p. Seriously though, McCartin and Bruce will be a very good 1-2 pair in a couple of years time. Forget about Bont and Petracca. This year's two first rounders need to be spent on good midfielders though, no excuses will cut it.

No regrets picking Billings. It was the right call at the time. Paddy ahead of Petracca though. FMD.

Happy to have a mature conversation on footy matters, equally happy to share banter & have a laugh. Room for both, you can't take this forum too seriously or you'll go insane.
 
No regrets picking Billings. It was the right call at the time. Paddy ahead of Petracca though. FMD.

Happy to have a mature conversation on footy matters, equally happy to share banter & have a laugh. Room for both, you can't take this forum too seriously or you'll go insane.
Not every player takes to AFL football in the same way. There are so many variables. Billings just doesn't seem able to involve himself in games for four quarters, but he's shown signs this season. For me, Gresham looks like Billings with an appetite - nobody blinks if you switch their draft positions. Bontempelli was a massive reach at four, but he's ticked those variable boxes and come good in a big way. Petracca is still puzzling. He looked a game breaker at 17, and still does, even coming off that knee. He also hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he's building well and looks a big game away from realising how good he is. I think St Kilda overlooking him at #1 caused him to look in the mirror and think about why Bains thought he was too big a dickhead to draft.
 

Glen Buterol

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Not every player takes to AFL football in the same way. There are so many variables. Billings just doesn't seem able to involve himself in games for four quarters, but he's shown signs this season. For me, Gresham looks like Billings with an appetite - nobody blinks if you switch their draft positions. Bontempelli was a massive reach at four, but he's ticked those variable boxes and come good in a big way. Petracca is still puzzling. He looked a game breaker at 17, and still does, even coming off that knee. He also hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he's building well and looks a big game away from realising how good he is. I think St Kilda overlooking him at #1 caused him to look in the mirror and think about why Bains thought he was too big a dickhead to draft.

That's it mate. It swings in roundabouts. Gresham at pick 18 is a bargain. I'd happily pick him ahead of any other mid in his draft that's not named Oliver or Parish (discounting Mills who wasn't avail to us). Top 5-6 from his draft imo. Billings looks closer to a pick 18 than pick 3.
 
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Honest opinion from a Saints supporter. Selecting McCartin instead of Petracca is as baffling now as it was at the time. No hindsight required. Read any Saints threads pre draft that discuss us picking Petracca & the lead up to the leak we were leaning towards picking Paddy. Most Saints fans thought it was a troll the fact that we were even considering Paddy. The melt amongst fans ensued. After the draft fans obviously got behind Paddy & found positives.

In my opinion the Saints recruiters outsmarted themselves. They tried to find flaws in Petracca not to pick him. He's lazy. He's arrogant. He's selfish. All because the recruiters shat themselves when the Bulldogs shelled out big for Tom Boyd. The problem is the St Kilda recruiters failed to follow the fundamental rule of pick high end draft talent. They failed to pick best available.

Close to the draft all clubs recruiters were asked who they would pick at selection one. 16 clubs picked Petracca, one club Heeney & one club Paddy (obviously St Kilda). The scary thing is even those fans with a lay opinion on the matter clearly had Petracca ahead of Paddy but the professionals running the St Kilda club failed in their duties.

It's obviously too late now, the past is the past & I think Paddy becomes a pretty decent footballer when all is said & done. But Petracca becomes elite top five in the competition quality.

Just quickly on Billings, as it's been raised. Billings was clearly a top three talent. The Saints recruiters shouldn't be blamed for picking him ahead of Bont. Pretty sure 16 clubs would've done the same. Apparently only Collingwood & the Bulldogs had Bont so high. We don't even know if the Dogs would've picked Bont ahead of Billings if they had the option. The concern with Billings is why has he failed to develop/why has the club failed to develop him. Fourth year in, he needs to show more.
Interesting and mature response, so kudos to you. And in regards to Billings there was talk that if we hadn't traded pick 2 to GWS we would have most likely selected Billings. So he was definitely highly rated by Paul Roos which speaks volume on the kids talent. I think as you continue to add depth to your midfield Billings will be that icing on the cake.
 
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I listened to some of yesterday's game, and the commentators were noting his inability to clunk marks, especially in wanting to wait for the ball to come onto his chest instead of taking it out in front of him. The argument was that you can understand lack of form, fitness, confidence, and experience....but that proper marking technique was Key Forward 101, and they were quite surprised that he was struggling with it.

They made a comparison with Hipwood, who had a similarly dirty day and was far too easy out-muscled and out-positioned. But the point was that Hipwood at least had the "technique" part sorted, all he needed was time to bulk up. Whereas McCartin's problem was something more fundamental.

I honestly haven't seen much of McCartin play, but is this something Saint fans (or others who have watched him a lot) have noticed? I'm hardly going to condemn the bloke first game back, but some of those comments did make me stop and think.
He's shown as much of a contested marking ability as any key forward his age. His problems have been his lack of fitness and inaccuracy in front of goal, those issues can be worked on though.

But hey, even if he ends up as a bust, Hawthorn are giving us a pick 1 do-over this year anyway.
 
Oct 1, 2005
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Honest opinion from a Saints supporter. Selecting McCartin instead of Petracca is as baffling now as it was at the time. No hindsight required. Read any Saints threads pre draft that discuss us picking Petracca & the lead up to the leak we were leaning towards picking Paddy. Most Saints fans thought it was a troll the fact that we were even considering Paddy. The melt amongst fans ensued. After the draft fans obviously got behind Paddy & found positives.

In my opinion the Saints recruiters outsmarted themselves. They tried to find flaws in Petracca not to pick him. He's lazy. He's arrogant. He's selfish. All because the recruiters shat themselves when the Bulldogs shelled out big for Tom Boyd. The problem is the St Kilda recruiters failed to follow the fundamental rule of pick high end draft talent. They failed to pick best available.

Close to the draft all clubs recruiters were asked who they would pick at selection one. 16 clubs picked Petracca, one club Heeney & one club Paddy (obviously St Kilda). The scary thing is even those fans with a lay opinion on the matter clearly had Petracca ahead of Paddy but the professionals running the St Kilda club failed in their duties.

It's obviously too late now, the past is the past & I think Paddy becomes a pretty decent footballer when all is said & done. But Petracca becomes elite top five in the competition quality.

Just quickly on Billings, as it's been raised. Billings was clearly a top three talent. The Saints recruiters shouldn't be blamed for picking him ahead of Bont. Pretty sure 16 clubs would've done the same. Apparently only Collingwood & the Bulldogs had Bont so high. We don't even know if the Dogs would've picked Bont ahead of Billings if they had the option. The concern with Billings is why has he failed to develop/why has the club failed to develop him. Fourth year in, he needs to show more.
Beautifully summed up.
 
I listened to some of yesterday's game, and the commentators were noting his inability to clunk marks, especially in wanting to wait for the ball to come onto his chest instead of taking it out in front of him. The argument was that you can understand lack of form, fitness, confidence, and experience....but that proper marking technique was Key Forward 101, and they were quite surprised that he was struggling with it.

They made a comparison with Hipwood, who had a similarly dirty day and was far too easy out-muscled and out-positioned. But the point was that Hipwood at least had the "technique" part sorted, all he needed was time to bulk up. Whereas McCartin's problem was something more fundamental.

I honestly haven't seen much of McCartin play, but is this something Saint fans (or others who have watched him a lot) have noticed? I'm hardly going to condemn the bloke first game back, but some of those comments did make me stop and think.
I think it has something to do with the coaching because Bruce is going through the same sort of issues.

2015 Bruce was clunking everything but now he is very hit and miss.
 
Sep 8, 2008
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I listened to some of yesterday's game, and the commentators were noting his inability to clunk marks, especially in wanting to wait for the ball to come onto his chest instead of taking it out in front of him. The argument was that you can understand lack of form, fitness, confidence, and experience....but that proper marking technique was Key Forward 101, and they were quite surprised that he was struggling with it.

They made a comparison with Hipwood, who had a similarly dirty day and was far too easy out-muscled and out-positioned. But the point was that Hipwood at least had the "technique" part sorted, all he needed was time to bulk up. Whereas McCartin's problem was something more fundamental.

I honestly haven't seen much of McCartin play, but is this something Saint fans (or others who have watched him a lot) have noticed? I'm hardly going to condemn the bloke first game back, but some of those comments did make me stop and think.
He actually has a very good two handed grab on him with soft hands so the ball doesn't juggle but didn't see much of it on the weekend. He does have the tendency to try take leading marks on the chest. not sure why this is, perhaps watching reiwoldt do it, but nick has run his opponent into the ground with several repeat leads by that point.

Still only a 17 game career and was on line for a ripper game last season until he broke his collarbone against the tigers. The problem with the saints is we have two styles, 1) quick hack forward, doesn't suit paddy 2) patient build up which just crowds the forward line with 10 defenders. Once we get free flowing footy happening up the ground paddy will breakout.
Well, we also have the slingshot out of defense but that perfectly suits the other forwards 100%, has Membrey or Bruce's name all over it.
 
He actually has a very good two handed grab on him with soft hands so the ball doesn't juggle but didn't see much of it on the weekend. He does have the tendency to try take leading marks on the chest. not sure why this is, perhaps watching reiwoldt do it, but nick has run his opponent into the ground with several repeat leads by that point.

Still only a 17 game career and was on line for a ripper game last season until he broke his collarbone against the tigers. The problem with the saints is we have two styles, 1) quick hack forward, doesn't suit paddy 2) patient build up which just crowds the forward line with 10 defenders. Once we get free flowing footy happening up the ground paddy will breakout.
Well, we also have the slingshot out of defense but that perfectly suits the other forwards 100%, has Membrey or Bruce's name all over it.
So he struggles in a team that plays quickly and a team that has a slow patient build up?
That sounds promising for him

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St Kilda have another number one pick coming this year, they can pick a midfielder then knowing they have their long term key forwards already on the list.
 

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Got bust written all over him at the moment.
 
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I think McCartin will come on and be handy, but he more than likely wont end up a Top 10 player in that draft. There are so many good players with a lot of improvement to come: Petracca, Marchbank, Wright, Lever, Heeney, Steele, Miller, Blakely, McGovern, Daniel, Andrews etc. Was a big reach at the time, and from reading The Draft, pretty much precipitated by the Bulldogs bringing Boyd in.

Billings at 3 is emerging as a shocker too. Not just because of the Bont, but fundamentally Billings is far too soft and tentative. Hasn't got the killer instinct that A-grade mids have. Bont, Cripps, Kelly and Merrett are far more advanced mentally.

Can't deny Saints have got the right picks in, and some of the right players (Jack Steele for a future 2nd was a bargain), but they'd be so much further ahead if they managed to nail those two very early selections. They'll have a few more at the end of this year to bring in some quality talent though.
 
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