Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[PP34]

Nope. While Petracca looks to be great and one of those rarer midfielders who really hurt you on the scoreboard, I still don't think McCartin was a mistake. At least at this stage.

Midfielders are everywhere. We've seen time and time again that you can find guns high in the draft, in the middle and sometimes even late or as rookie recruits.

You can have all the midfielders you want, but you still need a forward line. I'll always remember that Dogs side from 2007-2010 I think it was. They had talented players all over the ground, pretty good midfield talent but up forward it was literally an old Brad Johnson and then later on a past it Barry Hall. If that team had a key forward to constantly kick it to they probably win a flag in that period.

Finding a gun key forward who can take big marks and hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is massive. It can totally change the dynamic of a team.

St Kilda hardly knew Membrey and Bruce would turn out to be so handy too. They've got plenty of time to add depth to that midfield.


McCartin has had his injury issues but I feel like he's shown promise when he actually has gotten out there.

 

[jesterwester]

He reminds me a lot of Kennedy, at least in his style of play. Big guys like him take time, but are worth the wait. For example - have a look at a cross-section of Kennedy - the guy i see as a comparison.

Kennedy: 2006-2010
69 games, 90 goals.

Kennedy: 2011-2017 (inc rd 1)
122 games, 367 goals

Petracca was always going to be ready made, even with a year out he was still more ready physically. But give it a few years and I think he will prove to be more than worth it.

 

[Modric]

Midfielders are everywhere. We've seen time and time again that you can find guns high in the draft, in the middle and sometimes even late or as rookie recruits.

You can also find gun key position players high in the draft. What a surprise!

You can have all the midfielders you want, but you still need a forward line.

Tell that to teams like West Coast, Sydney and the Bulldogs, who won flags with a very average forward line. You won't find any flag winning teams with an average midfield.

I'll always remember that Dogs side from 2007-2010 I think it was. They had talented players all over the ground, pretty good midfield talent but up forward it was literally an old Brad Johnson and then later on a past it Barry Hall. If that team had a key forward to constantly kick it to they probably win a flag in that period.

Barry Hall was arguably at the peak of his career at the Bulldogs, and scoring heaps of goals. Do your research before making assumptions.

Finding a key forward to "constantly" kick to is stupid and one dimensional. Did you learn nothing from your team when Fevola was playing?

Finding a gun key forward who can take big marks and hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is massive. It can totally change the dynamic of a team.

Yes, it can make you one-dimensional and less mobile.

It also won't help you win a flag if the midfield is shit.

St Kilda hardly knew Membrey and Bruce would turn out to be so handy too. They've got plenty of time to add depth to that midfield.

They also may not get the chance to recruit a player like Petracca again for the next few years.

 

[PP34]

You can also find gun key position players high in the draft. What a surprise!

Hardly anywhere near as regularly.

Tell that to teams like West Coast, Sydney and the Bulldogs, who won flags with a very average forward line. You won't find any flag winning teams with an average midfield.

West Coast had a ridiculously good trio of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. The Swans still had Barry Hall. The Bulldogs had Tom Boyd who played a match winning performance.

Barry Hall was arguably at the peak of his career at the Bulldogs, and scoring heaps of goals. Do your research before making assumptions.

He was good in 2010 yes. Still peaked at Sydney, not even relevant anyway. The Bulldogs in the years prior got close in the finals and lost because of a lack of goals.

Finding a key forward to "constantly" kick to is stupid and one dimensional. Did you learn nothing from your team when Fevola was playing?

Not sure how Fevola is relevant. That team was seriously devoid of talent. Key forwards who can move around the ground and take marks are invaluable. The Hawks had it with Roughy, Gunston and Buddy, the Cats with Hawkins and Mooney before that and the Pies with Cloke. You can bring up Sydney and West Coast all you like but that was a different era of footy. The Swans in 2012 won and then went after Franklin. I wonder why? It's much easier to be a good football team when you can go forward and have a good target to kick to. Everyone knows this.

Yes, it can make you one-dimensional and less mobile.

It also won't help you win a flag if the midfield is shit.

Yet the Saints have two other handy forwards so I doubt that's going to be an issue. This isn't going to be McCartin trying to carry an entire forward line.

St Kilda's midfield does look to be lacking that standout gun but they've still got plenty of time to find that gun.

They also may not get the chance to recruit a player like Petracca again for the next few years.

That's the risk they take. Some people are getting a bit ahead of themselves after round one anyway. Petracca looks a good one but he's still got a long way to go before we can talk about him as a once in a generation type talent. Teams have found the likes of a Dangerfield, Fyfe etc at pick 10 or later, so it's hardly a rare thing.

 

[Trav 20]

It's a sound strategy to take a key forward at pick one if you deem them worthy of pick one and you structurally need a key forward.

The question is will McCartin be good enough. Does he have the ability to be a regular 60+ goal key forward ?

The jury is out.

 

[Tulip]

Nope. While Petracca looks to be great and one of those rarer midfielders who really hurt you on the scoreboard, I still don't think McCartin was a mistake. At least at this stage.

Midfielders are everywhere. We've seen time and time again that you can find guns high in the draft, in the middle and sometimes even late or as rookie recruits.

You can have all the midfielders you want, but you still need a forward line. I'll always remember that Dogs side from 2007-2010 I think it was. They had talented players all over the ground, pretty good midfield talent but up forward it was literally an old Brad Johnson and then later on a past it Barry Hall. If that team had a key forward to constantly kick it to they probably win a flag in that period.

Finding a gun key forward who can take big marks and hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is massive. It can totally change the dynamic of a team.

St Kilda hardly knew Membrey and Bruce would turn out to be so handy too. They've got plenty of time to add depth to that midfield.


McCartin has had his injury issues but I feel like he's shown promise when he actually has gotten out there.

Than again, you can do it without a gun key forward as long as you have 30-40 goal contributors. Or you could do what WCE did in 06 and win a flag the year the Q Stick went mad and kicked about 60.

Also, Sydney didn't have Barry Hall in 2012. Reid and LRT were their key forwards, with Goodes spending time down there.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Based on the game on the weekend as well as last year we certainly need to improve the midfield. No secret there. I think (hope?) this is where the St Kilda focus will be come season's end, whether it be via draft, trade, free agency. We need to get in an A-grader or two as at the moment probably only Steven fits that bill but I do see hope for Steele (though A-grade may be a stretch for him). The club has improved the depth, but we need the pure quality also.

I agree that we don't need the best forward line in the comp as many teams recently have done exceedingly well without necessarily having gun forwards.

Believe it or not McCartin looks trimmer to me than he did last year. I still see him as highly talented, and hope to see what he is truly capable of before the season is done. If he can't make it on the park regularly and show hints of domination at least in games, it's fair to say it was a mistake to take him #1.

 

[00Stinger]

Paddy isn't even the best forward in that draft.
Who now would take Paddy over Mitch McGovern?

Or two metre Peter?

Sent from my SM-P555 using Tapatalk

 

[Sando22]

Nah he's a ripper and we're filthy

 

[#gosaintas]

Nah he's a ripper and we're filthy

Why would you be filthy? You had no choice, he was gone at your pick. Strange post.

 

[Sando22]

Why would you be filthy? You had no choice, he was gone at your pick. Strange post.

Wow, you're dumber than your recruiters.
Filthy he wasn't still up for grabs obviously.
But, I was being sarcastic, thank god we're not the ones left having to feed him - looks like he can eat!

 

[#gosaintas]

Wow, you're dumber than your recruiters.
Filthy he wasn't still up for grabs obviously.
But, I was being sarcastic, thank god we're not the ones left having to feed him - looks like he can eat!

What a sense of humour you have. No wonder you have that avatar.

 

[Sando22]

What a sense of humour you have. No wonder you have that avatar.

Thanks mate.
I like your pic too.

 

[Scotland]

There are a two types of U/18 key forward that goes early in the draft. You get raw talents like Franklin, Josh Kennedy who need a few pre-seasons to bulk up, and you get guys like Tom Hawkins, Tom Boyd who need to lose a bit of puppy fat and work on their endurance.

You also get guys like Quinten Lynch who are physical beasts at 18 and there are question marks over whether they're good enough as they are to make it at AFL level, and you get guys like Ben McKinley, Tory Dickson who a bit one dimensional and undersized to play as key forwards in the AFL. These guys end up being speculative picks, mature agers etc.

McCartin belongs in the Hawkins/Boyd category. I don't watch the TAC Cup so have no idea how good McCartin looked at U/18 level but like the much maligned Jack Watts I seem to recall he was regularly in the mix for one of the top few picks so it's not like he was a complete gamble. As has been posted already Josh Kennedy didn't do much in his first few seasons. Wasn't until his 3rd season with WC and 5th overall he actually played 22 games and he booted 41 goals. From then on he's been a consistent 3 goal a game player over the last 6 years with a couple of 80 goal seasons in his prime. Hawkins looked like a beast in his first couple of games then struggled for consistency over a number of years. Wasn't until the 2011 GF where he had to step up that he became the player he is now.

I'm prepared to give McCartin 50-60 games to see if he improves and his peak won't be until 100+. With Bruce and Membrey in the side and Riewoldt still playing (not for a few weeks now) he is a bit surplus, though. You'd think that going forward McCartin and Bruce would be FF/CHF with Membrey as the third option.

 

[Dez!]

Wow, you're dumber than your recruiters.
Filthy he wasn't still up for grabs obviously.
But, I was being sarcastic, thank god we're not the ones left having to feed him - looks like he can eat!

Don't be a flog.

We would've been rapt with McCartin had St Kilda gone for Petracca, he's shown signs of being a good forward. He just needs experience which hopefully will come from this week onwards.

 

[Sando22]

Don't be a flog.

We would've been rapt with McCartin had St Kilda gone for Petracca, he's shown signs of being a good forward. He just needs experience which hopefully will come from this week onwards.

Each to their own mate.
Read my fair share of tripe leading into last week so this is my opinion.
There's banter and there arrogance and they had the latter in spades so if you're going to throw sh*t like that out there pre game, wear it when it all falls apart.
Find me anyone who would prefer McCartin to Petracca and stick the first part of your comment in your ear.

 

[DrEvil_]

At this point in Jack Watts' career (3rd year) the tide turned and everyone started shitting on him so it's a valid question historically.

And honestly, McCartin can't stay on the park. It's a huge issue.

Watts is a separate case all together. Watts should be Prime Minister now, if only votes for him were counted.

 

[Underarm]

You can also find gun key position players high in the draft. What a surprise!

Off the top of my head, Tom Boyd (WBD), Franklin (Syd), Riewoldt (Rich and St Kilda), Kennedy (WC), Hogan (Melb), Joe Daniher (Ess), Roughead (Hawthorn), Naitinui(WC) were all top 10 picks.
Travis Cloke, Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron would have gone high as well.

 

[theprospect]

Wasn't a mistake but if they had their time again I think they would take Petracca. Forward line without McCartin still looks good but their midfield is vanilla as it comes.

Fair enough, probably wouldn't say it is as vanilla as it comes - will be a very good midfield in time, but it is severely lacking right now.

Steele is going to be a star, absolutely love him already. Acres could be anything but he's a bit lazy, then we have Newnes/Armitage/Ross/Dunstan/Stevens who are all similar players. None quite A grade talent, all B+ at their best though. Steven is our star but had little impact this week unfortunately. Gresham provides some x factor and will play more through the middle as he builds a tank, and IF Billings flicks the switch he is absolutely A grade potential, no one can doubt that.

We definitely need someone though that can take us to the next level. Luckily we have 2 first round picks and a (supposed) tonne of cap space available to go after a gun mid that can help us take the next step, so even though we're only 1 week into the season it's shaping as a big off season for the club.

 

[Sando22]

I didn't say anything about preferring McCartin to Petracca, I said Melbourne would've been rapt with McCartin had St Kilda picked Petracca. There's been plenty of arrogant shit posted by Melbourne supporters over the last week including the tripe you just posted.

I'll say it again, don't be an arrogant flog.

We won one game against St Kilda in 11 years, we haven't earned the right to be cocky.

Each to their own mate.
And personally, I'd be dirty if we had McCartin instead of Petracca so spare me.
There hasn't been half the poop from us as St Kilda - what have we had to be arrogant about?
Cocky and giving a bit back are two different things. I made my point in response to the OP then received the wise arse answer in return so I stand by what I've said.

 

[tigs2010]

Yay a Melbourne shit fight

 

[#gosaintas]

Each to their own mate.
And personally, I'd be dirty if we had McCartin instead of Petracca so spare me.
There hasn't been half the poop from us as St Kilda - what have we had to be arrogant about?
Cocky and giving a bit back are two different things. I made my point in response to the OP then received the wise arse answer in return so I stand by what I've said.

Dez has called you correctly

 

[Sando22]

Dez has called you correctly

OK

 

[bjwilliams]

Tom Hawkins copped a lot of flak and didn't really start delivering until he was 23. McCartin's not even 21 yet. People need to be a bit more patient before calling pass or fail on this type of player. Especially when he didn't even play yesterday.

Edit: see Xhoquelin's comment above.

God I wish people would've done this for Watts. I actually really feel for him with the amount of crap he copped.

Not meaning to side track just wish people had this perspective for him back then!

 

[Theseventhhamster]

A generation earlier and the Saints would have taken Petracca to be their answer at full forward. I could barely contain my excitement when CP fell to us but I won't shit on Patty. Hate when the media picks on whoever the top 5 pick is that looks shit early next to the blokes that went after him. Tambling/Watts/whoever it's just lazy bullying of easy targets.