Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[dman800]

I don't mean to have a go at McCartin here, however I'm starting to think St.Kilda made a mistake selecting him with the #1 pick of the 2014 draft.

All year, Christian Petracca was rated as the clear #1 pick; a beast of a midfielder with elite athleticism and goalscoring ability. In the end, St. Kilda opted to select McCartin because they wanted a key-forward, even though he had more question marks over him than Tom Boyd did the previous year.

Now McCartin could well become a good, or even great player, and I know it's harsh to judge him right now because he didn't play, but in yesterday's game, Melbourne's midfield absolutely smashed St.Kilda's; there was a clear gap in quality. In this modern game, midfield depth is more valuable than ever, and Melbourne probably knew this, which is why they stockpiled them with most of their early picks in the last few years, including both Petracca and Brayshaw in 2014. Meanwhile St.Kilda's only top 10 picks since 2012 have been Billings and McCartin, two forwards (one potentially moving into the midfield); their midfield hasn't changed much on paper, and so far, it's not looking like it's improved much, or at least enough.

Should they have taken Petracca instead? Did they get too hungry for a tall forward?

 

[blitzer]

Its still too early as we saw last year with Tom Boyd. McCartin looks to be a good player, he's just had significant injury issues. If there is a good key forward prospect with a high draft pick its hard to label it as a mistake because you can generally only get these types of players at high draft picks which means you might only have a small window to act while you're at the very bottom of the ladder.

McCartin, Bruce and Membrey may be half of their forward structure for the next decade - I don't think they would be too upset about that.

If its just a player on player comparison then Petracca probably will be a better player (certainly right now he is) but in terms of how valuable they both are I reckon its much less clear cut. You only have to think about the cost Western Bulldogs had to pay to get Tom Boyd all because they only had pick #4 (which is still a bloody high pick) in the draft where he went #1 to realise that taking those key forwards when you can definitely has a lot of merit.

 

[Topkent]

When they went for McCartin neither Membrey nor Bruce had shown anything So they had a 31 year old Roo and no one else. At the time they HAD to select McCartin as they needed a key forward more than they needed a midfielder. We already had selected Hogan so we really didnt need McCartin. So as a Dees supporter I was pumped the 2 midfielders slipped through to us even though McCartin and Hogan would have been an awesome forward line.
Roo still kicked 4 for them last night and was the thing holding their spine together as Membrey and Bruce are 2nd and 3rd forwards who feed off space and mismatches. They still need McCartin to come on, even more so now that Roo may well be hurt

 

[dman800]

Its still too early as we saw last year with Tom Boyd. McCartin looks to be a good player, he's just had significant injury issues. If there is a good key forward prospect with a high draft pick its hard to label it as a mistake because you can generally only get these types of players at high draft picks which means you might only have a small window to act while you're at the very bottom of the ladder.

You could say the same about players like Petracca. Goalscoring midfield beasts 'generally' don't grow from branches outside the first round, and I doubt key-forwards are any rarer if we're going by volume.

McCartin, Bruce and Membrey may be half of their forward structure for the next decade - I don't think they would be too upset about that.

They will if their midfield isn't up to standard, as was shown yesterday.

You can win a flag with an average forward line, you can't win a flag with an average midfield.

If its just a player on player comparison then Petracca probably will be a better player (certainly right now he is) but in terms of how valuable they both are I reckon its much less clear cut. You only have to think about the cost Western Bulldogs had to pay to get Tom Boyd all because they only had pick #4 (which is still a bloody high pick) in the draft where he went #1 to realise that taking those key forwards when you can definitely has a lot of merit.

The Tom Boyd trade has only been vindicated through a single game. Outside the Grand Final, he's still been mostly terrible, and was genuinely awful against Collingwood.

Value? I'd say a player like Petracca can bring a lot more to a side than a key-forwards like McCartin, and I've yet to see evidence that suggests otherwise. The "key-forwards being more valuable than midfielders" thing is past its use-by date; there are hardly any that deserve to be mentioned alongside the best mids in the comp.

 

[vicpride]

You could say the same about players like Petracca. Goalscoring midfield beasts 'generally don't grow from branches outside the first round, and I doubt key-forwards are any rarer if we're going by volume.


They will if their midfield isn't up to standard, as was shown yesterday.

You can win a flag with an average forward line, you can't win a flag with an average midfield.


The Tom Boyd trade has only been vindicated through a single game. Outside the Grand Final, he's still been mostly terrible, and was genuinely awful against Collingwood.

Value? I'd say a player like Petracca can bring a lot more to a side than a key-forwards like McCartin, and I've yet to see evidence that suggests otherwise. The "key-forwards being more valuable than midfielders" thing is past its use-by date; there are hardly any that deserve to be mentioned alongside the best mids in the comp.

Asks the question with a full rebuttal already in hand. Stay strong

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[dman800]

At the time they HAD to select McCartin as they needed a key forward more than they needed a midfielder.

Why did they "HAVE" to select him? You make it sound like it's a disaster if they didn't.

Key-forwards aren't the be-all and end-all, and that's becoming more apparent as seasons go by. Who were the Bulldogs Key-forwards in the finals last year? Who were Sydney's in 2012?

 

[dman800]

Asks the question with a full rebuttal already in hand. Stay strong

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Shame on me for providing a bit of debate. I should just stay silent so babies like you get that self-fulfillment you badly crave.

 

[vicpride]

Shame on me for providing a bit of debate. I should just stay silent so babies like you get that self-fulfillment you badly crave.

Why ask the question you have all the answers. You are the definition of wisdom in hindsight

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[dman800]

Why ask the question you have all the answers. You are the definition of wisdom in hindsight

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I suggest you finish that Year 10 english before making any further posts.

Questions can be used to incite a debate, nothing wrong with that.

 

[vicpride]

I suggest you finish that Year 10 english before making any further posts.

Questions can be used to incite a debate, nothing wrong with that.

Ok "dman" haha

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[Topkent]

Why did they "HAVE" to select him? You make it sound like it's a disaster if they didn't.

Key-forwards aren't the be-all and end-all, and that's becoming more apparent as seasons go by. Who were the Bulldogs Key-forwards in the finals last year? Who were Sydney's in 2012?

Because you can find gun midfielders outside the top 3 picks- Fyfe, Danger, Parker, Kennedy, Sloane, Cripps, Merrett, Selwood, S.Mitchell etc all came outside the first few picks. Now name the influential key forwards who came outside the top 5

Ill wear the fact the dogs one the flag without a good key forward, however they still went out and added Cloke which shows the one the flag in spite of having one. (though T.Boyd was one of the most influential players on the ground and worth his entire paycheque for that single game)
If you dont strike for a key forward when you have early picks you can have an era of nothingness like the dogs in 08-10 or the Crows 04-07

 

[LeverPuller]

Its still too early as we saw last year with Tom Boyd. McCartin looks to be a good player, he's just had significant injury issues. If there is a good key forward prospect with a high draft pick its hard to label it as a mistake because you can generally only get these types of players at high draft picks which means you might only have a small window to act while you're at the very bottom of the ladder.

McCartin, Bruce and Membrey may be half of their forward structure for the next decade - I don't think they would be too upset about that.

If its just a player on player comparison then Petracca probably will be a better player (certainly right now he is) but in terms of how valuable they both are I reckon its much less clear cut. You only have to think about the cost Western Bulldogs had to pay to get Tom Boyd all because they only had pick #4 (which is still a bloody high pick) in the draft where he went #1 to realise that taking those key forwards when you can definitely has a lot of merit.

At this point in Jack Watts' career (3rd year) the tide turned and everyone started shitting on him so it's a valid question historically.

And honestly, McCartin can't stay on the park. It's a huge issue.

 

[blitzer]

At this point in Jack Watts' career (3rd year) the tide turned and everyone started shitting on him so it's a valid question historically.

And honestly, McCartin can't stay on the park. It's a huge issue.

I always felt that the reason Melbourne copped so much over the Watts pick was the enormous hype of Naitanui at the next pick. It wasn't just another key forward vs midfield comparison it was about the unstoppable athleticism of Naitanui that hadn't really been seen before. I'm sure Melbourne love having Gawn these days and wouldn't change a thing but at the time it wasn't clear who their ruck successor was and the direct comparison wasn't flattering.

 

[ManOfClay]

McCartin over petracca is almost as bad as Billings over Bont. St kilda could have had two game changing mids.

Instead they have a kpf who in his third season can't get on the park and is still yet to kick more than two goals in a game and a forward flanker who shirks contact

 

[dman800]

Because you can find gun midfielders outside the top 3 picks- Fyfe, Danger, Parker, Kennedy, Sloane, Cripps, Merrett, Selwood, S.Mitchell etc all came outside the first few picks. Now name the influential key forwards who came outside the top 5

Using "top 3 picks" to make a point about midfielders, then asking me to name good key forwards taken outside the "top 5 picks"? Ok.

Not that cherry picking proves anything, but here you go: Tom Lynch, Taylor Walker, Jack Gunston, Josh Jenkins, Jack Riewoldt, Jack Darling, Tim Membrey, Josh Bruce, Ben Brown, Charlie Dixon. Going back even further: Barry Hall, Brendan Fevola, James Podsiadly, Cameron Mooney, Daniel Bradshaw, Fraser Gehrig, Warren Tredrea, Drew Petrie.

Ill wear the fact the dogs one the flag without a good key forward,

and Sydney, and Geelong, and West Coast.

however they still went out and added Cloke which shows the one the flag in spite of having one. (though T.Boyd was one of the most influential players on the ground and worth his entire paycheque for that single game)

They added him for a bag of chips, and it remains to be seen if he will have a big influence. A bit different to pick #1.

If you dont strike for a key forward when you have early picks you can have an era of nothingness like the dogs in 08-10 or the Crows 04-07

You can also build a flag winning midfield like the Dogs did in 2016. The Dogs wouldn't trade Bontempelli for any key-forward in the competition.

 

[LeverPuller]

I always felt that the reason Melbourne copped so much over the Watts pick was the enormous hype of Naitanui at the next pick. It wasn't just another key forward vs midfield comparison it was about the unstoppable athleticism of Naitanui that hadn't really been seen before. I'm sure Melbourne love having Gawn these days and wouldn't change a thing but at the time it wasn't clear who their ruck successor was and the direct comparison wasn't flattering.

Is the comparison with Petracca much better? Packbusting, goalscoring forward/mid in the Dusty mould, the only reason St Kilda haven't copped more is because he did his ACL in year 1.

 

[00Stinger]

Nah mccartin was a great pick at #2, as a melbourne supporter i am spewing we got Petracca and Brayshaw at #2 and #3 [emoji23][emoji23]

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[Milanista28]

McCartin over petracca is almost as bad as Billings over Bont. St kilda could have had two game changing mids.

Instead they have a kpf who in his third season can't get on the park and is still yet to kick more than two goals in a game and a forward flanker who shirks contact

Just can't help yourself. Almost as embarrassing as giving up pick 26 for Crameri and us selecting Zach Merrett. See how hindsight works.

 

[Milanista28]

Why did he miss yesterday?? I saw managed, What does that even mean.

 

[LeverPuller]

Why did he miss yesterday?? I saw managed, What does that even mean.

Hammy issues apparently.

That said he's now been pulled from the last two Melbourne games late. Kind of weird.

 

[BRWB]

Until McCartin actually plays its hard to say how good he is.

For mine, the concussion is a massive worry. Tends to never go away. Ask Dean Kemp and a few others.

Saints couldn't predict that.

Shame.

 

[Cadillac]

Officially the worst thread on bigfooty. Has the OP actually seen Mccartin play? This is what I hate about bigfooty. As soon as a team gets a loss, everyone comes from everywhere to sink the boots in.

 

[dman800]

Until McCartin actually plays its hard to say how good he is.

For mine, the concussion is a massive worry. Tends to never go away. Ask Dean Kemp and a few others.

Saints couldn't predict that.

Shame.

He has played though. He's been making the standard progression you'd expect from a key-forward over the last two years.

He wouldn't have made much of a difference yesterday though.

 

[dman800]

Officially the worst thread on bigfooty. Has the OP actually seen Mccartin play? This is what I hate about bigfooty. As soon as a team gets a loss, everyone comes from everywhere to sink the boots in.

Reading must be very difficult for you. Rather pitiful.

 

[00Stinger]

Officially the worst thread on bigfooty. Has the OP actually seen Mccartin play? This is what I hate about bigfooty. As soon as a team gets a loss, everyone comes from everywhere to sink the boots in.

Settle down Paddy, dont take the thread personally

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