List Mgmt. 2014 Trade and Free Agency Targets Thread

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Heaps of fun

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I heard Kyle Cheney is up for trade, undersize key defender who is in the same mould as Josh Gibson and showed he is quite a good defender when injury struck Hawthorn in recent times.
You don't bring in tweeners with no uspide. Cheney's serviceable but Spud, Macmillan, McDonald and Wright can all play tall if disaster strikes our KPD stocks.
 

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Could we play Brown, Petrie, Black and Waite in the same forward line? I know it looks way too top heavy but with Black being very quick and agile we won't lose too much when the ball hits the deck. Sydney play Franklin, Tippet, Reid and Goodes forward, which is probably more mobile but not by much. Just a thought.
 

rooboy335

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Great write-up rooboy335. Only thing I disagree with is the exclusion of Turner. Already shown that he can play at a top level and almost all of our best games this year included a forward whose first priority was to create pressure (being him or Robbie Nahas). That forward line will kick a lot of goals but if it's not marked it will get taken out too easily too often.
Thanks HOF. Don't get me wrong I love Turner and what he brings, I just don't think you can expect that top level from him week in week out. Not yet anyway. In his last 3 games (our finals series) he had a disp. tally of 12, 8, and 7, a goal tally of 0, 1, 0, and tackle count of 3, 9, and 2. Obviously stats don't paint the full picture, I thought he was great against Geelong, and probably * as well. But are we factoring his age and how young he is to our opinion of him? I feel as though I do sometimes. But that's just me. Anyway:

Turner in his 6 games had an average of: 10.3 disp, 1.3 goals, 4.3 tackles, 2.8 I50
Compare this with say Cooney who averaged 19.7 disp, 0.7 goals, 3.3 tackles, 2.9 I50 with less TOG (not by much, but still less)

Different positions and roles and all that, but my opinion is that short term, Cooney's class and skill will give us more than what Turner can at the moment. But Turner will be important for us going forward. Also, you're right, it would be hard to compensate for Turner's intensity and pressure, but I feel like all of the players in the F50 I posted earlier aren't slouches, they can do their part, and averaged only around about a tackle less than Kayne last year. (Higgins avg 3.2, Waite 2.9).
 

roosmad

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Agree, especially when I'm not into racing, A-league or 3rd string cricket. In fact I think the AFL lengthening trade week is a ploy to capture AFL attention and headlines well beyond the GF. Might be 4 weeks next year!
mate in the desert of Arizona, this is like the season has not ended...loing it....
 

the Ziebull

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We could have a fwd line of:

HF: Higgins, Waite, Cooney
FF: Thomas, Petrie, Black

With the likes of Harvey, Ziebell, Cunnington, Wells rotating with Higgins and Cooney for stints inside F50, it looks like it could wreak some havoc, especially now on the turnover which hasn't always been the case with us. Turner will continue to develop in the two's and I don't see a problem with this as he is still the youngest in the comp before all the new kids come in, and still needs to work on plenty of areas in his game. Brown, don't actually want him out but it creates pretty good competition for spots amongst the other tall forwards, so the least performing one should miss out.

So with the 3 inclusions (if Cooney comes in/don't really want Varcoe) it looks like this to me:

FB: Firrito, Thompson, Hansen
HB: McDonald, Grima, Wright
C: Atley, Cunnington, Wells
HF: Higgins, Waite, Cooney
FF: Thomas, Petrie, Black

Foll: Goldstein, Swallow, Ziebell

IC: Harvey, Dal Santo, Gibson, Macmillan

There just looks like more class in that team than we have had for a long time. There's 'class' outweighing 'average' skills on almost every line there. I don't know why some of you were/are against bringing in skillful players as it will make a big difference to our side. We'll get to supplement our core 16 or so players with more highly skilled players. Just from the Sydney PF, Higgins replaces Jacobs, Cooney replaces a Turner, Waite replaces a Brown or Black who had 2 disposals and 2 tackles that night, and 1 goal in the last 5 weeks of our season (yes he was injured for most of the season, and he played a higher role up-field, but this is exactly the benefit we will reap when we can replace him for a guy like Waite when Blacky is struggling).

As for the calls that the young'uns we have that might have their development stymied, lets look at the younger players who miss out on a spot in the 22:

Bastinac: Maybe this will actually force him to pull his finger out and work his butt off to get back into the side. This is my opinion only of course but to me he was extremely lucky to play all but one game for us this year. This could be the catalyst that pushes him to be that player we thought he could develop into after his pretty good debut season.

McKenzie: Has to show continuing physicality and consistency in the two's first. Shouldn't just be allowed to come into the 22 because of his left boot. Has to earn it, should work for it and thus steadily develop and improve in the seconds.

Harper/Garner: Like McKenzie, have to show that they can consistently perform at VFL level first. Once their output is of an adequate level that's required of Brad and others involved in selection, I'm sure we'll see them replace a Cooney/Higgins. Which is how it should be. They shouldn't have to come in and develop in the ones like how the likes of Bastinac/Cunners/Ziebell etc. did when they were thrown into the deep end 4-5 years ago because we had nobody else.

Jacobs: He will go back and show us he's too good for the VFL and I feel he needs an extended run in the ones to develop confidence and get the best out of himself. He's one that I can see being in and out of the side and his develop could be stunted. But he'll replace whichever one of the HB/Mids that isn't performing which will only make our side stronger.

Dumont: Like Jacobs above, I feel next year he'll show that he's way too good for the VFL. But he doesn't need the full 26 games next season, nor will he get it. Through form and inevitable injury, he should get his chance and depending on how well he does, he will get around about the amount of games he deserves. Here's hoping anyway.

Wood: Is probably the one (with Jacobs) that is most difficult to find a spot in the 22 for. Again he'll most likely do very well next season in the VFL and thus require some AFL games to develop further. Question is whether we can play the three talls AND Wood. If not, he would probably be behind all of the tall forwards for a spot in the 22, depending on form of course, and would find it tough to get a gig.

All in all, it's tough. For one, I can see the inclusion of players not really affecting or actually improving the development of some of our own (Basti, McKenzie, Harper, Garner). But for Jacobs and Wood, games may be taken from them and yes it might hinder their development. Dumont not so much as I feel he'll get a handful of games which will be enough for him being a second year player. In the end though, I do believe it makes us a stronger, highly skilled (how often have we been able to say that or even be close to thinking it this past decade?), and possibly formidable unit if most of the important core players stay on the park. Even if we don't get Cooney, I am bloody excited not only for 2015, but several years beyond because we have both utilised the FA well and recruited well and will continue to invest in recruitment.
Top post.
I'm all for Cooney if cheap
 

kelman

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Could we play Brown, Petrie, Black and Waite in the same forward line? I know it looks way too top heavy but with Black being very quick and agile we won't lose too much when the ball hits the deck. Sydney play Franklin, Tippet, Reid and Goodes forward, which is probably more mobile but not by much. Just a thought.
Absolutely we could - and i think we will.
 

Mordecai

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Could we play Brown, Petrie, Black and Waite in the same forward line? I know it looks way too top heavy but with Black being very quick and agile we won't lose too much when the ball hits the deck. Sydney play Franklin, Tippet, Reid and Goodes forward, which is probably more mobile but not by much. Just a thought.
Tippet can ruck. Franklin and Goodes get right up the ground. Black I can make a case for getting up the ground - he is extremely agile. Brown can share ruck duties. I think Petrie and Waite are fight for that stay-at-home forward role.
 

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We could have a fwd line of:

HF: Higgins, Waite, Cooney
FF: Thomas, Petrie, Black

With the likes of Harvey, Ziebell, Cunnington, Wells rotating with Higgins and Cooney for stints inside F50, it looks like it could wreak some havoc, especially now on the turnover which hasn't always been the case with us. Turner will continue to develop in the two's and I don't see a problem with this as he is still the youngest in the comp before all the new kids come in, and still needs to work on plenty of areas in his game. Brown, don't actually want him out but it creates pretty good competition for spots amongst the other tall forwards, so the least performing one should miss out.

So with the 3 inclusions (if Cooney comes in/don't really want Varcoe) it looks like this to me:

FB: Firrito, Thompson, Hansen
HB: McDonald, Grima, Wright
C: Atley, Cunnington, Wells
HF: Higgins, Waite, Cooney
FF: Thomas, Petrie, Black

Foll: Goldstein, Swallow, Ziebell

IC: Harvey, Dal Santo, Gibson, Macmillan

There just looks like more class in that team than we have had for a long time. There's 'class' outweighing 'average' skills on almost every line there. I don't know why some of you were/are against bringing in skillful players as it will make a big difference to our side. We'll get to supplement our core 16 or so players with more highly skilled players. Just from the Sydney PF, Higgins replaces Jacobs, Cooney replaces a Turner, Waite replaces a Brown or Black who had 2 disposals and 2 tackles that night, and 1 goal in the last 5 weeks of our season (yes he was injured for most of the season, and he played a higher role up-field, but this is exactly the benefit we will reap when we can replace him for a guy like Waite when Blacky is struggling).

As for the calls that the young'uns we have that might have their development stymied, lets look at the younger players who miss out on a spot in the 22:

Bastinac: Maybe this will actually force him to pull his finger out and work his butt off to get back into the side. This is my opinion only of course but to me he was extremely lucky to play all but one game for us this year. This could be the catalyst that pushes him to be that player we thought he could develop into after his pretty good debut season.

McKenzie: Has to show continuing physicality and consistency in the two's first. Shouldn't just be allowed to come into the 22 because of his left boot. Has to earn it, should work for it and thus steadily develop and improve in the seconds.

Harper/Garner: Like McKenzie, have to show that they can consistently perform at VFL level first. Once their output is of an adequate level that's required of Brad and others involved in selection, I'm sure we'll see them replace a Cooney/Higgins. Which is how it should be. They shouldn't have to come in and develop in the ones like how the likes of Bastinac/Cunners/Ziebell etc. did when they were thrown into the deep end 4-5 years ago because we had nobody else.

Jacobs: He will go back and show us he's too good for the VFL and I feel he needs an extended run in the ones to develop confidence and get the best out of himself. He's one that I can see being in and out of the side and his develop could be stunted. But he'll replace whichever one of the HB/Mids that isn't performing which will only make our side stronger.

Dumont: Like Jacobs above, I feel next year he'll show that he's way too good for the VFL. But he doesn't need the full 26 games next season, nor will he get it. Through form and inevitable injury, he should get his chance and depending on how well he does, he will get around about the amount of games he deserves. Here's hoping anyway.

Wood: Is probably the one (with Jacobs) that is most difficult to find a spot in the 22 for. Again he'll most likely do very well next season in the VFL and thus require some AFL games to develop further. Question is whether we can play the three talls AND Wood. If not, he would probably be behind all of the tall forwards for a spot in the 22, depending on form of course, and would find it tough to get a gig.

All in all, it's tough. For one, I can see the inclusion of players not really affecting or actually improving the development of some of our own (Basti, McKenzie, Harper, Garner). But for Jacobs and Wood, games may be taken from them and yes it might hinder their development. Dumont not so much as I feel he'll get a handful of games which will be enough for him being a second year player. In the end though, I do believe it makes us a stronger, highly skilled (how often have we been able to say that or even be close to thinking it this past decade?), and possibly formidable unit if most of the important core players stay on the park. Even if we don't get Cooney, I am bloody excited not only for 2015, but several years beyond because we have both utilised the FA well and recruited well and will continue to invest in recruitment.
Some of our picks this year maybe ready to play next year as well which will put more pressure on spots in the team.

Waite or Petrie could play back giving Brown/Black more games or they all play forward. Hawthorn had 4 talls in 2013. I doubt both Firrito and Grima play with Hansen and Thomo. Mullet should be back in the team.
 
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Tippet can ruck. Franklin and Goodes get right up the ground. Black I can make a case for getting up the ground - he is extremely agile. Brown can share ruck duties. I think Petrie and Waite are fight for that stay-at-home forward role.
I just think it would be worth them trialling it in the preseason. If it worked it would be unstoppable
 

Tas

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Could we play Brown, Petrie, Black and Waite in the same forward line? I know it looks way too top heavy but with Black being very quick and agile we won't lose too much when the ball hits the deck. Sydney play Franklin, Tippet, Reid and Goodes forward, which is probably more mobile but not by much. Just a thought.
Black doesn't really play like a KPP (which is why I am wondering why Perth media has a hardon for him), he gets the vast majority of his opportunities at ground level, he would likely add more as a marking option when he is lining up on a medium size defender.
 
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Black doesn't really play like a KPP (which is why I am wondering why Perth media has a hardon for him), he gets the vast majority of his opportunities at ground level, he would likely add more as a marking option when he is lining up on a medium size defender.
Yeah I agree that Black doesn't play like your usual KPF. I would say the reason he wasn't marking the ball this year and the reason our mids barely honored his leads is because of his dodgy shoulder. He marked the ball just fine in 2013
 

Joshen

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It's been revealed by the AFL website that Brisbane called off the Dayne Beams trade at the 11th hour on Friday, before Collingwood's 5pm deadline.

The Pies revealed that after the Lions declined a direct trade for picks 5, 21 and 25 for Beams and pick 30, Collingwood had engaged a five-club mega trade, which also the Lions knocked back.

The monster trade would have seen Beams and Allen Christensen end up at the Lions, Levi Greenwood and Travis Varcoe join Collingwood, MitchClark join Geelong, Heritier Lumumba join Melbourne and second- and third-round picks exchanged between North Melbourne and the other four clubs.

The deal had been ticked off by four of the five clubs, with Brisbane turning their nose up late Friday afternoon.

The deal is still a chance however go through, as the Lions will be running a medical screening on Christensen over the weekend.
Interesting...Pies winning for mine.
 

R00StaR

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We have not sold the farm for a Buddy but have paid it down and got some more experienced hands on deck expecting a bumper harvest.

Those hands may pay for themselves as you say if the harvest ends up in march towards 50k or something in September or erasing the 2.05 M current debt or all of the above.

On field the club would have a solid and very even top 30 where like a Hawthorn you do not notice a change in output from week to week covering injuries, individual form and suspension. And the best teams also rest players or give them an extra week for niggles and injury recovery.

Thus far Brayshaw has said he wanted to follow the Hawthorn model. We seem to be doing this with our list as well as Hobart.

And in 2 years we might get that big fish or 2 or 3 more free agents.

The only danger I see is we have an incredible run with injuries and the MRP and lose a Dumont or a Wood who are starved still at the kids table.

The other key point to your post of which i agree is

As much as people are saying Levi is motivated by a payday I think some of our recent or proposed pickups are motivated by time and not $.

Dal Santo, Cooney, Waite, Higgins have performed in finals and much like Petrie, Harvey, Wells time is running out.
We arent selling the farm or overpaying these guys, they're only coming for opportunity. So its far from a big retirement package.

Looks like we'll get more FTA exposure the next few years too which will only help sell our brand and help with the off field stuff. As for the kids, yeah we should definitely be giving the older guys that week here and there to get over niggles and freshen up which will give that opportunity to those with form. Its also not like these guys will be around clogging up the list forever holding the kids back long term opportunity or pay.

Once the retirements are in full swing, i expect we'll stumble a bit as players learn to take over the rolls vacated. I wouldnt jump at FA immediately, a couple of years allowing them to again experience and grow while topping the best young talent in the drafts would be the go. If we look at Brown as an example of those kids, he's had 10 games so far? Say over the next 2 years he gets another 20-30, he's now had 2 full preseasons (hasnt had one yet) is 23 and perfectly primed to take over a KP full time. Another 2 years from there after a mini rebuild has him at 24 and pushing 70-80 games. We'd have a bunch in this category along with guys like Cunners, JZ, Jmac, McDonald, Atley, Wright and co in the 150-200 game category.

If we look at Hawthorn, they spend some time rebuilding and loaded up on the likes of Hodge, Roughead, Franklin - but they werent there long and neother should we be once all the older guys retire. We'd then be perfectly set up FAs again, maybe a big fish like a Cameron becomes available by then.

I was very critical in the 2000s of our list management, but since Brayshaw/ Scott i think its been spot on. FA has definitely helped with that. Very pleased with our direction on and off field.
 
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Black doesn't really play like a KPP (which is why I am wondering why Perth media has a hardon for him), he gets the vast majority of his opportunities at ground level, he would likely add more as a marking option when he is lining up on a medium size defender.
Just a thought but if Freo are so interested in Black. and we hold all of the power due to him being contracted could we propose in a closed room the exchange of Black and our second rounder for S.Hill and their 1st rounder.

They so no, we walk away.

Addresses a gap in our side (outside pace)
Gives us another first round pick
Black can be replaced by Wood (in a potentially already overcrowded and over heightened fwd line/half)

??
 

R00StaR

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Could we play Brown, Petrie, Black and Waite in the same forward line? I know it looks way too top heavy but with Black being very quick and agile we won't lose too much when the ball hits the deck. Sydney play Franklin, Tippet, Reid and Goodes forward, which is probably more mobile but not by much. Just a thought.
I wouldnt think so.

2 of either Brown, Petrie or Waite. Brown is ideal to eventually take Petrie's spot imo, take a key forward spot and pinch hit in the ruck but he's still a pup who hasnt had a preseason. Next year i have him down as a Petrie/ Waite back up (he'll still get games) and then the following year it'll be more likely Brown (if he has form of course) and one of Petrie/ Waite.

3rd tall as 1 of either Black or Wood
 
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I wouldnt think so.

2 of either Brown, Petrie or Waite. Brown is ideal to eventually take Petrie's spot imo, take a key forward spot and pinch hit in the ruck but he's still a pup who hasnt had a preseason. Next year i have him down as a Petrie/ Waite back up (he'll still get games) and then the following year it'll be more likely Brown (if he has form of course) and one of Petrie/ Waite.

3rd tall as 1 of either Black or Wood
There is no way North have bought Waite in on a 2 year deal to be a back-up, he will play from Round 1 if fit.
 

rooboy335

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Some of our picks this year maybe ready to play next year as well which will put more pressure on spots in the team.

Waite or Petrie could play back giving Brown/Black more games or they all play forward. Hawthorn had 4 talls in 2013. I doubt both Firrito and Grima play with Hansen and Thomo. Mullet should be back in the team.
Yeah all of that is plausible, like I said it's not going to be easy but I feel as though we're giving ourselves a great chance to put a very good team out onto the park EVERY week. Competition for spots has been continuing to build for years now. I disagree with your views on the defenders but I think that's for another thread.
 
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