List Mgmt. 2015 AFL Draft - what type of players should we be looking at & who do we take? (Poll added)

Who would you select with our first round pick?

  • Joshua Schache (VIC – KPF)

    Votes: 57 12.8%
  • Jacob Weitering (VIC – KPD)

    Votes: 349 78.3%
  • Aaron Francis (SA – DEF/FWD)

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Charlie Curnow (VIC – KPF/MID)

    Votes: 9 2.0%
  • Kieran Collins (VIC – KPD)

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Ryan Clarke (VIC – MID/FWD)

    Votes: 7 1.6%
  • Darcy Parish (VIC – MID/DEF)

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 1.3%

  • Total voters
    446
  • Poll closed .
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HereComesJuddy

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Does anybody think SOS might regret trading pick 20+21 for pick 11?

My opinion is he did this thinking surely GWS would accept 11 for Tomlinson, as we all know they didn't. But afterwards looking at it, I don't see the level of talent between 11-21 being to different unless he has someone in mind or a potential slider.

Names who could be available at 20+21;
Dunkley, Cunningham, hibberd, Clarke, B. McKay, Collins, Tucker, Rioli

Getting 2 of these players instead of 1 (Burton, Matheison, Gresham, Balic, Bonner) would add further talent to our list. And are these players much better than the ones who would be available at 20+21?
If pick 11 gets us a McKay, Oliver, Milera, Burton or someone similar, I'd back 11 being the better option.
 

C4[2]Yo`DooR

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GAVROI MOUNIA... GAMW TON PIRAEA
I really like the look of Gresham.

A friend of mine who is a recruiter in another professional sport (US College Basketball), gave me a glimpse of the criterion sheet of things that the US scouts look for in a point guard (it's very detailed and layered). Pretty much all of the criterion are able to be applied to AFL midfielders and it's aimed at looking at how much of that players skill-set will transition into the professional game at the next level both physically and mentally.

Aside from athleticism (which we know he has), decision making and match awareness were the ones that stuck out to me; decision making had the following basic layers:

1. Is the player a good decision maker?
2. Is the player a good decision maker under duress?
3. Is the player a quick decision maker?
4. Can the player co-ordinate others during the course of play? etc (there are 27 criterion).

I know I haven't seen a whole lot of him, but Gresham definitely ticks most of those boxes from what I have seen.

I'm starting to become more and more a fan of 'strategic line drafting'. So I would love to address our KPD and midfield stocks this year given the talent available and then look to focus on the forwards either next year (with another early pick), via FA or trade (perhaps another crack at Tomlinson).

1. Weitering
8. Francis/Collins
11. Gresham
19. Dunkley/Cunningham

We address our Defence with Weitering, Collins/Francis and Plowman for the next 10 years and add some inside/outside breaking run in Gresham and then either another big bodied insider in Dunkley, or more inside/outside line breaking run in Cunningham.
 
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I dunno. I really hope some sanity prevails when it comes to our drafting. When I look at our list there’s Casboult, Jones, Jaksch, Foster and Rowe who are all KPFs. Added to this our utilities, Walker and Everitt, are also played as KPFs. Further to this resting ruckmen such as Kreuzer, Phillips, Gorringe and Wood can also be used as marking targets inside forward 50 when resting. It’s not as though we’re exactly bereft of options. We’d have more marking options inside forward 50 than HBFs. Like them or not all these F50 marking options are on our list and chewing up plenty of our TPP. Until they're either delisted, traded or advised to take an early retirement by the surviving members of the Carlton Crew, I'd rather see what BB can do with them before getting any more. On the other hand we only have 1 KPD in Jamison and between his shoulders and calves he’s just about shot.

For me these are the absolute non-negotiable prerequisites I’m looking for in whoever we recruit from this year’s National Draft.
  • Must be natural footballer rather than a natural athlete trying to be a footballer.
  • Must be able work in conjunction with others as “a seamless collective”.
  • Must have the desire to be first to the contest.
  • Must have the courage to take the hit, either in the air or on the ground, rather than take short steps.
  • Must have excellent disposal by hand or by foot that results in “retained possession” rather just another “effective disposal” stat.
  • Must have an accurate and penetrating kick…and by that, I mean hit a moving target at a range of 50m or more.
  • Must have already established a tank for repeated efforts.
  • Must be able to play some senior football this year given we will have turned over at least 25% of our list this year.
  • Must have the internal drive and motivation to be a self-starter given CFC’s piss-poor and/or non-existent player development programs. (I so hope that changes under BB).
  • Must not be under a major injury cloud.
  • Must be able to stick a tackle without a pre-match visit to the Selley’s factory.
  • Must be good in the air and good off the deck.
  • Must be able to “read the play”.
  • Must be prepared to run and be able to “work both ways”.
  • Must have the potential to dominate the position for which they’re drafted.
  • Must be of quality character.
  • Must not be managed by Colin Young.
  • Must have the intelligence to want to develop as people not just footballers.

These are my picks for this years’ National Draft and why I want them.

(1) Jacob Weitering KPD Height 195 Weight 94

Excellent disposal by hand or either foot, combined with his decision-making ability to seek out the best available option allow him to control the play around him or downfield. He’s strong in the air and just as good when the ball’s on the deck where those massive mits that just seem to gobble up the Sherrin and will give new meaning to Paul Hogan’s “a fistful of ravioli” when the boys introduce him to Lygon St. Strong, courageous, tough, intelligent and with elite endurance just about make Weitering the complete footballer.

(8) Kieran Collins KPD Height 194 Weight 100

Just because he had his first shave at 4, was able to enter nightclubs without being asked to produce ID at 8, dated a cougar at 12 and received his Seniors Card at 15 does not make him a man-child. Honestly, some of the crap one reads in this thread regarding reasons not to draft this guy are enough to make one’s eyes boggle. An accomplished FB at junior level and the second best key defender in this years draft, his strengths are his long accurate kicking and strong marking. Collins also achieved the highest average disposal efficiency rating of any player (86.8%) during this years U18 National Champs. While Collins doesn’t have quite the tank Weitering does, he still managed a 14.2 in the Beep test meaning that his opponent will have quite a challenge burning him out during the course of a match. Collins also won the Clean Hands test at the combine. Big, tough, levelheaded, dependable and professional, Collins is always looking for ways to improve his game and should prove to be an excellent replacement for Jamo.

(11) Riley Bonner Defender Height 190 Weight 85

I really like this bloke…even more than Francis, because he’s got more upside. Classy defender who is sound in the air, excellent off the deck and not afraid to take on his opponent with his speed, Bonner has the potential to become a pure excitement machine. He also has the capability to play on talls or smalls. While he’s great kick off either foot it’s the left peg that’s been fully weaponised and the ball leaves it with all the velocity and penetration of a sniper bullet. Bonner is reminiscent of the typical Hawthorn prototype defender and rest assured if we don’t take him here the Hawks definitely will at 15 or 18 as they’d view him as an ideal replacement for the aging Grant Birchall.

(19) Ryan Clarke Midfielder Height 185 Weight 84

Inside/outside goal kicking mid who literally runs his opponents into the ground. Hurts the opposition with his run and carry on the outside while bringing his teammates into the game with his creative handball when working inside. Although his tackling is one of strongest assets he needs to be a little mindful of the defensive side of his game because his hard running can leave him exposed if the ball gets turned over to the direct opponent he’s just burned off. Good operator with a mature head on his shoulders, I can’t wait to see him streaming through centre for the Blues after marking a 60m bullet from Bonner at full tilt.

(59) SOSOS Utility Height 191 Weight 83

Like something out of scene of Octopussy SOSOS is just like his old man…all arms and legs. Although lightly framed, he has his father’s ability to manoeuvre his opponent away and/or under the ball drop in contested marking contest without giving away free kicks. It’s a unique skill set that one doesn’t see often these days that will make him a very awkward proposition for his opponents once he develops his frame. An excellent and accurate kick, SOS Jnr is a genuine swingman that can competently play at either end.

(60) Tom Phillips Midfielder Height 186 Weight 75

Inside/outside midfielder who played in this years TAC Cup as an over-ager. Accumulates possessions at will and then distributes them by hand or his trusty left foot. His kicking doesn't have the penetration of a Collins or a Bonner, but it is very effective and used to pick out his teammates in traffic with great precision. Although tackling his one of his stronger suits he'll need to spend some time in the gym and put on some weight to be able do the same at AFL level. A potential diamond in the rough here, but if Pick 60 fails to remain live for any reason, Phillips might be a good one to rookie.

I deliberately set about trying to pick quality players that should still be realistically available at our picks and who should be able to fill a massive void in our list without banking on sliders or attempting to reach. I want them to be able learn together, grow together, work for each other, cover for each other and operate as a collective. I’d expect Weitering and Collins to be available for senior selection as soon as BB reckons that they’re ready to go. Bonner might need a little time in the gym to add 4-5kg to his frame and Clarke may need to do a little strength work, but barring injury, I’d expect both to play at least some senior footy this year. I wouldn’t expect any of them to play every game, but rotate in and out with Jamo providing some on field tuition.

If we could have a settled back six of Plowman, Collins, Docherty, Byrne, Weitering and Bonner by mid 2017 launching the footy out to the likes of hard-running players, such as Clarke and Kerridge, it would certainly go a long way to assisting the rest of the team retain some essential structures in the front half.

Would I love to get Schache, Hipwood, Oliver, Weideman, Gresham or Francis??? Of course, but SOS won’t be able to fix everything in one draft and he also only has so many picks at his disposal. Having said that, given that he’s already addressed our ruck division, if he can get our defence sorted and a small part of our midfield (Kerridge & Clarke) in just one offseason, then I’ll be more than satisfied.
 

HereComesJuddy

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I think we need to invest in midfield depth more than a tall. We have Cas KJ Weit plowman Jamo Rowe.. I'd be happy to take 3 gun mids inside and outside run..
Thoughts?
Cas is hit or miss. He has definitely improved, but I honestly don't see him being part of our team in 3 years if we draft correctly.
KJ. Many believe he won't make it. I'm not one of them, but I'm not pinning my hopes of him holding down a key forward or having his way with a key back anytime soon.
Weitering. Hopefully a gun, needs time.
Plowman. Traded by a team because he was surplus.
Jamo. Getting older, shoulders are about to fall off like a battered HeMan toy.
Rowe. Not bad, but again not good.

Minimum 2 kept pp's. I even wouldn't be disappointed with 3.
 

ParapMarkets

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I don't understand this talk of a pre-arranged deal with GWS for pick 11 as picks 20 + 21 are worth more points. With them needing points for academy selections it doesn't make sense to me that they would prefer pick 11.

I think it is more likely SOS has a bit of a plan and thinks a really good talent could fall through to that selection
 
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I think we need to invest in midfield depth more than a tall. We have Cas KJ Weit plowman Jamo Rowe.. I'd be happy to take 3 gun mids inside and outside run..
Thoughts?
Patience Little Grasshopper. Next year will be the draft for gun mids.
 

PumpyChowdown

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Thread starter #5,986
This weeks requests

1. Weitering hope to see him in the forward line in a couple of games next season

8. Francis hope to see him in the backline next season

11. Oliver something tells me he won't slide that far tho #wisfulthinking

19. Gresham if available if not Collins or B Mckay

Can't the draft hurry up and start already
This would be the dream draft IMO.
 

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Azul

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Honestly, some of the crap one reads in this thread regarding reasons not to draft this guy are enough to make one’s eyes boggle. An accomplished FB at junior level and the second best key defender in this years draft, his strengths are his long accurate kicking and strong marking.
And what are Collins' weaknesses? What is his upside that he's likely to improve into his 20s? Is he a better player and more likely 200 gamer than some of the other available talent at pick 8?

A perceived need to replace Jamison shouldn't overlook that our midfield is a shambles and we have zero match-winning forwards.

Best available, thanks.
 

Peter Bell

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I don't understand this talk of a pre-arranged deal with GWS for pick 11 as picks 20 + 21 are worth more points. With them needing points for academy selections it doesn't make sense to me that they would prefer pick 11.
GWS already had enough points for the academy kids they wanted, the trade would've allowed them to use their pick 10 or our pick 11 on a live non academy pick.
 

ParapMarkets

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GWS already had enough points for the academy kids they wanted, the trade would've allowed them to use their pick 10 or our pick 11 on a live non academy pick.
No, it wouldn't. Both those picks would have to be used (unless Hopper and Kennedy don't get bid on before those picks which seems extremely unlikely). They can't just say "hey we have accumulated a lot of points at the end of the draft we would like to use those points to pay for our selection instead of pick 11".
 

Peter Bell

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No, it wouldn't. Both those picks would have to be used (unless Hopper and Kennedy don't get bid on before those picks which seems extremely unlikely). They can't just say "hey we have accumulated a lot of points at the end of the draft we would like to use those points to pay for our selection instead of pick 11".
That's true. Kennedy is the only one I could see slipping, but you're right, that is unlikely.

That said, Melbourne got their #7 from GWS as did we with our #8... maybe a few sneaky no bidding agreements could've been on the cards.
 

ParapMarkets

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That's true. Kennedy is the only one I could see slipping, but you're right, that is unlikely.

That said, Melbourne got their #7 from GWS as did we with our #8... maybe a few sneaky no bidding agreements could've been on the cards.
Yeah it sucks that the best three midfielders in the draft are off the market, I understand the difficulty GWS will have retaining Vic, SA and WA players but there is just too much talent not available on the open market on draft day.
 
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I dunno. I really hope some sanity prevails when it comes to our drafting. When I look at our list there’s Casboult, Jones, Jaksch, Foster and Rowe who are all KPFs. Added to this our utilities, Walker and Everitt, are also played as KPFs. Further to this resting ruckmen such as Kreuzer, Phillips, Gorringe and Wood can also be used as marking targets inside forward 50 when resting. It’s not as though we’re exactly bereft of options. We’d have more marking options inside forward 50 than HBFs. Like them or not all these F50 marking options are on our list and chewing up plenty of our TPP. Until they're either delisted, traded or advised to take an early retirement by the surviving members of the Carlton Crew, I'd rather see what BB can do with them before getting any more. On the other hand we only have 1 KPD in Jamison and between his shoulders and calves he’s just about shot.

For me these are the absolute non-negotiable prerequisites I’m looking for in whoever we recruit from this year’s National Draft.
  • Must be natural footballer rather than a natural athlete trying to be a footballer.
  • Must be able work in conjunction with others as “a seamless collective”.
  • Must have the desire to be first to the contest.
  • Must have the courage to take the hit, either in the air or on the ground, rather than take short steps.
  • Must have excellent disposal by hand or by foot that results in “retained possession” rather just another “effective disposal” stat.
  • Must have an accurate and penetrating kick…and by that, I mean hit a moving target at a range of 50m or more.
  • Must have already established a tank for repeated efforts.
  • Must be able to play some senior football this year given we will have turned over at least 25% of our list this year.
  • Must have the internal drive and motivation to be a self-starter given CFC’s piss-poor and/or non-existent player development programs. (I so hope that changes under BB).
  • Must not be under a major injury cloud.
  • Must be able to stick a tackle without a pre-match visit to the Selley’s factory.
  • Must be good in the air and good off the deck.
  • Must be able to “read the play”.
  • Must be prepared to run and be able to “work both ways”.
  • Must have the potential to dominate the position for which they’re drafted.
  • Must be of quality character.
  • Must not be managed by Colin Young.
  • Must have the intelligence to want to develop as people not just footballers.

These are my picks for this years’ National Draft and why I want them.

(1) Jacob Weitering KPD Height 195 Weight 94

Excellent disposal by hand or either foot, combined with his decision-making ability to seek out the best available option allow him to control the play around him or downfield. He’s strong in the air and just as good when the ball’s on the deck where those massive mits that just seem to gobble up the Sherrin and will give new meaning to Paul Hogan’s “a fistful of ravioli” when the boys introduce him to Lygon St. Strong, courageous, tough, intelligent and with elite endurance just about make Weitering the complete footballer.

(8) Kieran Collins KPD Height 194 Weight 100

Just because he had his first shave at 4, was able to enter nightclubs without being asked to produce ID at 8, dated a cougar at 12 and received his Seniors Card at 15 does not make him a man-child. Honestly, some of the crap one reads in this thread regarding reasons not to draft this guy are enough to make one’s eyes boggle. An ac

(11) Riley Bonner Defender Height 190 Weight 85

I really like this bloke…even more than Francis, because he’s got more upside. Classy defender who is sound in the air, excellent off the deck and not afraid to take on his opponent with his speed, Bonner has the potential to become a pure excitement machine. He also has the capability to play on talls or smalls. While he’s great kick off either foot it’s the left peg that’s been fully weaponised and the ball leaves it with all the velocity and penetration of a sniper bullet. Bonner is reminiscent of the typical Hawthorn prototype defender and rest assured if we don’t take him here the Hawks definitely will at 15 or 18 as they’d view him as an ideal replacement for the aging Grant Birchall.

(19) Ryan Clarke Midfielder Height 185 Weight 84

Inside/outside goal kicking mid who literally runs his opponents into the ground. Hurts the opposition with his run and carry on the outside while bringing his teammates into the game with his creative handball when working inside. Although his tackling is one of strongest assets he needs to be a little mindful of the defensive side of his game because his hard running can leave him exposed if the ball gets turned over to the direct opponent he’s just burned off. Good operator with a mature head on his shoulders, I can’t wait to see him streaming through centre for the Blues after marking a 60m bullet from Bonner at full tilt.

(59) SOSOS Utility Height 191 Weight 83

Like something out of scene of Octopussy SOSOS is just like his old man…all arms and legs. Although lightly framed, he has his father’s ability to manoeuvre his opponent away and/or under the ball drop in contested marking contest without giving away free kicks. It’s a unique skill set that one doesn’t see often these days that will make him a very awkward proposition for his opponents once he develops his frame. An excellent and accurate kick, SOS Jnr is a genuine swingman that can competently play at either end.

(60) Tom Phillips Midfielder Height 186 Weight 75

Inside/outside midfielder who played in this years TAC Cup as an over-ager. Accumulates possessions at will and then distributes them by hand or his trusty left foot. His kicking doesn't have the penetration of a Collins or a Bonner, but it is very effective and used to pick out his teammates in traffic with great precision. Although tackling his one of his stronger suits he'll need to spend some time in the gym and put on some weight to be able do the same at AFL level. A potential diamond in the rough here, but if Pick 60 fails to remain live for any reason, Phillips might be a good one to rookie.

I deliberately set about trying to pick quality players that should still be realistically available at our picks and who should be able to fill a massive void in our list without banking on sliders or attempting to reach. I want them to be able learn together, grow together, work for each other, cover for each other and operate as a collective. I’d expect Weitering and Collins to be available for senior selection as soon as BB reckons that they’re ready to go. Bonner might need a little time in the gym to add 4-5kg to his frame and Clarke may need to do a little strength work, but barring injury, I’d expect both to play at least some senior footy this year. I wouldn’t expect any of them to play every game, but rotate in and out with Jamo providing some on field tuition.

If we could have a settled back six of Plowman, Collins, Docherty, Byrne, Weitering and Bonner by mid 2017 launching the footy out to the likes of hard-running players, such as Clarke and Kerridge, it would certainly go a long way to assisting the rest of the team retain some essential structures in the front half.

Would I love to get Schache, Hipwood, Oliver, Weideman, Gresham or Francis??? Of course, but SOS won’t be able to fix everything in one draft and he also only has so many picks at his disposal. Having said that, given that he’s already addressed our ruck division, if he can get our defence sorted and a small part of our midfield (Kerridge & Clarke) in just one offseason, then I’ll be more than satisfied.
Rly like the look of bonner. A real hawthorn like player. Just so classy and great disposal.

B: Buckley Future FB Plowman
HB: Docherty Weitering Bonner

Would be very dangerous on the rebound. Could even play bonner on a wing kicking inside 50
 

Peter Bell

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I think we need to invest in midfield depth more than a tall. We have Cas KJ Weit plowman Jamo Rowe.. I'd be happy to take 3 gun mids inside and outside run..
Thoughts?
If we did go with Weitering and three mids what would we do in 2016 if our only first round pick is #1 and the top three ranked kids are all midfielders?

It wasn't that long ago that we had (in my opinion) the best midfield in the comp but we still fell short in finals.

I'd personally like us to go with 1 Weitering, 8 Oliver or McKay, 11 a tall in McKay, Burton or Collins and then with 19 the best available mid which could be Gresham, Mathieson or Clarke. Then next year we take the best mid with our first round pick.

:)
 
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GWS were set to trade us Tomlinson for Pick #11 which was why the CFC media were on deck and ready.

... That is until Colin Young (Cam McCarthy's manager) kicked up a stink and accused GWS of playing favourites with SOS by questioning them as to how they were willing to let one contracted forward walk, while another with the exact same years remaining under contract was being forced to stay.

GWS agreed that it looked bad and set terrible precedent going forward, so they too forced Tomlinson to remain.
Do you think we could still possibly get Tomlinson next year C4?
 

ParapMarkets

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If we did go with Weitering and three mids what would we do in 2016 if our only first round pick is #1 and the top three ranked kids are all midfielders?

It wasn't that long ago that we had (in my opinion) the best midfield in the comp but we still fell short in finals.

I'd personally like us to go with 1 Weitering, 8 Oliver or McKay, 11 a tall in McKay, Burton or Collins and then with 19 the best available mid which could be Gresham, Mathieson or Clarke. Then next year we take the best mid with our first round pick.

:)
And I think you are very much on the money!! I think SOS will be thinking very similar, especially if the top end talent in next years draft are midfielders.
 

LordLucifer

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I dunno. I really hope some sanity prevails when it comes to our drafting. When I look at our list there’s Casboult, Jones, Jaksch, Foster and Rowe who are all KPFs.
For a start, Rowe is a defender & Jacksh is a third tall.

The rest of them are KPF's in name only, I want to know where the "quality" is ??

Besides, Jones & Rowe will be flung next year and there is no assurances that Foster will make the grade either.

The cupboard will be well & truly bare in 2017 if we don't start stockpiling quality talls now.
 
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