List Mgmt. 2015 Best 22 - Rolling thread

[daffo]

IMO we need to bring in another forward or ruckman. We must retain Ryder.

 

[vaughany]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-with-some-big-decisions-20140907-10dmfa.html

 

[BrunoV]

In4 teams with heaps of good players missing and kids who have done **** all named on every line.

All things being equal the best 22 is not exactly getting the job done.

Our skills do not hold up under pressure.

What people should do is qualify that they're not selecting the best 22 but the 22 that should be playing with an eye to continuing to build a team that can do something special.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

All things being equal the best 22 is not exactly getting the job done.

Our skills do not hold up under pressure.

What people should do is qualify that they're not selecting the best 22 but the 22 that should be playing with an eye to continuing to build a team that can do something special.

That doesn't mean picking Kavanagh over Stanton or Ashby over Dempsey though. Of course there's going to be flux from year to year, but this same thread every year is plagued with ridiculous teams that dump everyone over the age of 26 for anyone who's played 20 games or less.

There's a pretty significant difference between the teams that put Browne or Dalgleish on the bench and the teams that don't have any of Stanton, Hocking and Howlett.

 

[BrunoV]

That doesn't mean picking Kavanagh over Stanton or Ashby over Dempsey though. Of course there's going to be flux from year to year, but this same thread every year is plagued with ridiculous teams that dump everyone over the age of 26 for anyone who's played 20 games or less.

There's a pretty significant difference between the teams that put Browne or Dalgleish on the bench and the teams that don't have any of Stanton, Hocking and Howlett.

Well something has to give.

We all know where the problem lies (the stodge and/or lack of skill of a midfield made up of Watson, Goddard, Heppell, Myers, Stanton, Hocking and Howlett). How long do you give it? I see it as three failed finals campaigns now with 2012 and 2013 ending in likely embarrassment and I don't think we have the luxury of seeing it any other way.

We didn't hold up under pressure that would have been equal to the pre-game warm ups in the qualifying finals in 2014.

I've been harping on about this for a while now so forgive me for the repetition but the biggest danger of the supplements saga is that we'll hold onto a team for too long because we'll get seduced by the "what if?" and will, justifiably, feel that we owe it to the incumbents to get a decent run at a finals campaign.

We've simply got the balance in the midfield wrong. The stalwarts you've named are inferior versions of the best players without offering any significant points of difference. We can realistically afford 1 of Stanton, Hocking or Howlett as long as you accept that Watson, Goddard, Heppell and Myers aren't going anywhere (and I am not suggesting for a second that they are not 4 of our 10 most important and best players).

I'd thank Howlett for his service, tell him that I'll do anything to get him to the club of his choice or offer him footy on the condition that he'll only get game time if two of his type are injured and we need the expieriece.

Hocking might get saved as a midfielder because he tags. Stanton could be a viable half forward option because he has the workrate, is good around goal and reasonable overhead (if my memory serves me correctly). We need to strongly consider freezing him out of the midfield in the way we did with Howlett at the start of this year.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Well something has to give.

Indeed, but that's a list management issue, not a selection issue. We don't have an Isaac Smith or Stephen Hill playing 2s.

How long do you give it?

Until we have better players. Quite simply, we currently don't.

I'd thank Howlett for his service, tell him that I'll do anything to get him to the club of his choice or offer him footy on the condition that he'll only get game time if two of his type are injured and we need the expieriece.

Hocking might get saved as a midfielder because he tags. Stanton could be a viable half forward option because he has the workrate, is good around goal and reasonable overhead (if my memory serves me correctly). We need to strongly consider freezing him out of the midfield in the way we did with Howlett at the start of this year.

That's fine, but who do you replace them with? A few kids who haven't shown much at AFL level? Until we have the replacements ready to perform better at AFL level, they play.

 

[TravvyBombers]

FB:- Baguley - Hooker - Fletcher -
HB: - Dempsey - Hurley - Hibbered -

C: - Zaharakis - Watson - Colyer

HF: Z.Merett - Carlise - Chapman -
FF: Ryder - Daniher - Winderlich

R: Bellchambers - Myers - Heppell

I/C: Goddard, ???, ???, ???

 

[BrunoV]

Indeed, but that's a list management issue, not a selection issue. We don't have an Isaac Smith or Stephen Hill playing 2s.

Until we have better players. Quite simply, we currently don't.

That's fine, but who do you replace them with? A few kids who haven't shown much at AFL level? Until we have the replacements ready to perform better at AFL level, they play.

What is the tipping point? I'm not sure. Does Zach Merrett finish the season with the wraps has earned if he spends the first half of the year in the twos? I suspect he probably doesn't, especially since he struggled to get into games early on and when playing as sub.

I promise you that Kav will struggle with the pace of AFL until he gets time to settle (which necessarily involves selecting him for games when he will play at a standard which is not best 22 for the first 4 to 6 weeks after which it would be a different story). Aylett is much the same, he's played NEAFL for two years and VFL this year where he was a machine on the inside but struggled with the pace of AFL in his 1.25 games.

Remember that the now is round 1 2015. Third year players will be fourth and second year players will be third year players I suppose I'm hoping as much as anything that these guys start playing like men.

I'd pretty much throw the baby out with the bathwater to get games into the kids I think are the best to try and pinch a flag in 2016/17 before GC and GWS start their runs.

 

[rines]

For the purposes of the thread.. as irrelevant as it is.. what else have we got really:

I'm assuming Dempsey and Ryder leave.

FB: Baguley Hooker Fletcher
HB: Gleeson Carlisle Hibberd
C: Zaka Watson Myers
HF: Z Merrett Hurley Ambrose
FF: J Merrett Daniher Chappy
R: TBell Heppell Hocking
Int: Coyler Fantasia Pears
Sub: Winderlich

YOUNG (but saw 2013 action): Gleeson, Z Merrett, Ambrose, Fantasia
OUT (from best 22 in 2013): Dempsey, Ryder, Stanton, Howlett

Gives us 8 'talls': Hooker, Carlisle, Hurley, Daniher, TBell, Pears, Ambrose, Fletcher
Gives us 8 'pace/speedier/outside': Gleeson, Hibberd, Zaka, Z Merrett, J Merrett, Coyler, Fantasia, Winderlich
Gives us 4 'inside players': Watson, Myers, Heppell, Hocking
With a specialisit 'small defender' in Baguley
And a specialist 'small forward' in Chappy

So a trade for Dempsey and Ryder should get #5 + #35, and Stanton should get a second rounder, Howlett stays as depth on the list.

That would give us #5, #18, #26 and #35 in the draft.. as well as using a late pick to upgrade Ambrose.

Seems pretty good to me.

 

[rines]

I promise you that Kav will struggle with the pace of AFL until he gets time to settle (which necessarily involves selecting him for games when he will play at a standard which is not best 22 for the first 4 to 6 weeks after which it would be a different story). .

Been saying this for a while. Until Kav gets the opportunity we just won't know. Has to be given the nod ahead of Howlett.. after 6 weeks he is either not good enough to hold the spot and hence trade/delist OR he will be an upgrade on Howlett with far more upside.

Can't tread water.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Fletcher - Hooker - Baguley
Dempsey - Hurley - Hibberd
Goddard - Watson - Zaharakis
Stanton - Carlisle - Z Merrett
Chapman - Daniher - Bellchambers
Ryder - Heppell - Hocking/Melksham
Myers - Colyer - Gleeson - Dalgleish

I gather you are pegging Stanton to be reborn as a crumbing forward? Or am i reading too much into that? I think the idea has merit fwiw. I think we are all getting more and more concerned that he has become a liability playing midfield against fast opposition. As a forward he has shown quite a bit at different times this season. I thought he did some small things in some games that made a big difference by using his experience and reading of the play...

I'd agree with your team apart from Jackson for Dalgleish.

There should be a fantastic level of competition between Dalgleish, Howlett, Jackson, Kommer, Browne, Gleeson, Aylett and Melksham for those two spots in the team. That's not counting Kav, Edwards or Hams who are not far behind. Provided none of the established players take a nose dive in form, then we should be fielding very complete teams next season, in that i can't see any gifting of games going on.
Once again next year we should see the sudden emergence of another player or two, at the expense of a senior player or two. My money is on Aylett taking Hockings spot or Browne taking Stantons spot. If i could have my wish i'd love Jackson to step up like his brother and have them duke it out all year over who is better!

 

[eth-dog]

I gather you are pegging Stanton to be reborn as a crumbing forward? Or am i reading too much into that? I think the idea has merit fwiw. I think we are all getting more and more concerned that he has become a liability playing midfield against fast opposition. As a forward he has shown quite a bit at different times this season. I thought he did some small things in some games that made a big difference by using his experience and reading of the play...

I'd agree with your team apart from Jackson for Dalgleish.

There should be a fantastic level of competition between Dalgleish, Howlett, Jackson, Kommer, Browne, Gleeson, Aylett and Melksham for those two spots in the team. That's not counting Kav, Edwards or Hams who are not far behind. Provided none of the established players take a nose dive in form, then we should be fielding very complete teams next season, in that i can't see any gifting of games going on.
Once again next year we should see the sudden emergence of another player or two, at the expense of a senior player or two. My money is on Aylett taking Hockings spot or Browne taking Stantons spot. If i could have my wish i'd love Jackson to step up like his brother and have them duke it out all year over who is better!

Not as a crumber, as your Gus type forward. Forgot about Merrett, he's probably a better fit.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

What is the tipping point? I'm not sure. Does Zach Merrett finish the season with the wraps has earned if he spends the first half of the year in the twos? I suspect he probably doesn't, especially since he struggled to get into games early on and when playing as sub.

Who did Zach push out of the team? A suspended Melksham and/or an injured Dempsey basically. He had his chance and he took it. He pushed best 22 Melksham and best 22 J Merrett out of the team by year's end.

Kavanagh will get his chance, Aylett will get his chance, Browne will get his chance. If they're good enough, namely by their performances, they'll stay in the team, and that's how Howlett or whoever will be pushed out. There's just no possible way that you can genuinely say Kavanagh or similar is best 22 for Rd 1.

 

[bacon buster]

unless they 'set the track on fire'

 

[Ben the Gooner]

unless they 'set the track on fire'

Every team would have 46 in the best 22 by the end of November in that case

 

[rines]

Every team would have 46 in the best 22 by the end of November in that case

Colyer didn't set the world on fire this year with his first three games.. had 1 good and 2 bad from memory.. but Bomber stuck with him and he just went from strength to strength. His disposal (biggest flaw) went from poor to average which made him comfortably best 22.

The point being.. sometimes a player needs a chance to make it. EKav just has never been given the chance to find his feet.

 

[bacon buster]

generally the very good ones take an opportunity and run with it - see Merrett

 

[rines]

generally the very good ones take an opportunity and run with it - see Merrett

Merrett was shaky in his first couple of games.. Gleeson was making all the early waves..

Again.. I understand your point.. and maybe EKav isn't good enough.. cool.

My general point being that until we find an upgrade for players LIKE Howlett.. then this team will remain anchored in positions 6-12th.

 

[Oh Tayteridge]

We really need guys like Browney, Hams, Dalgleish and Kavanagh to start pushing into the side and getting some consistent games. With a bit of size Hams will be pushing the likes of Howlett out of the side, Browney is just a more mature body that we'll increasingly need if we're going to be playing kids like the Merretts, Gleeson, Fantasia and others I've named, Dalgleish is the kind of player who can provide that Dempsey like spark out of the back line (with better disposal) and Kavanagh has the potential to be that gut running midfielder we'll be crying out for when Stanton eventually retires. Ben's right in saying that we can't just get rid of the likes of Hocking, Howlett and Stanton without better players pushing them out of the side, and that's where these 2-5 year players have to stand up and fill the void. Until then, they stay and we will probably stagnate as a side.

 

[BrunoV]

Who did Zach push out of the team? A suspended Melksham and/or an injured Dempsey basically. He had his chance and he took it. He pushed best 22 Melksham and best 22 J Merrett out of the team by year's end.

Kavanagh will get his chance, Aylett will get his chance, Browne will get his chance. If they're good enough, namely by their performances, they'll stay in the team, and that's how Howlett or whoever will be pushed out. There's just no possible way that you can genuinely say Kavanagh or similar is best 22 for Rd 1.

I agree it's not about best 22.

 

[bacon buster]

Merrett was shaky in his first couple of games.. Gleeson was making all the early waves..

Again.. I understand your point.. and maybe EKav isn't good enough.. cool.

My general point being that until we find an upgrade for players LIKE Howlett.. then this team will remain anchored in positions 6-12th.

first few games were as a sub, so i guess 3 games as a sub = 1 full game

 

[The Speaker]

For the purposes of the thread.. as irrelevant as it is.. what else have we got really:

I'm assuming Dempsey and Ryder leave.

FB: Baguley Hooker Fletcher
HB: Gleeson Carlisle Hibberd
C: Zaka Watson Myers
HF: Z Merrett Hurley Ambrose
FF: J Merrett Daniher Chappy
R: TBell Heppell Hocking
Int: Coyler Fantasia Pears
Sub: Winderlich

YOUNG (but saw 2013 action): Gleeson, Z Merrett, Ambrose, Fantasia
OUT (from best 22 in 2013): Dempsey, Ryder, Stanton, Howlett

Gives us 8 'talls': Hooker, Carlisle, Hurley, Daniher, TBell, Pears, Ambrose, Fletcher
Gives us 8 'pace/speedier/outside': Gleeson, Hibberd, Zaka, Z Merrett, J Merrett, Coyler, Fantasia, Winderlich
Gives us 4 'inside players': Watson, Myers, Heppell, Hocking
With a specialisit 'small defender' in Baguley
And a specialist 'small forward' in Chappy

So a trade for Dempsey and Ryder should get #5 + #35, and Stanton should get a second rounder, Howlett stays as depth on the list.

That would give us #5, #18, #26 and #35 in the draft.. as well as using a late pick to upgrade Ambrose.

Seems pretty good to me.

guy called goddard goes alright

 

[Kronos]

For the purposes of the thread.. as irrelevant as it is.. what else have we got really:

I'm assuming Dempsey and Ryder leave.

FB: Baguley Hooker Fletcher
HB: Gleeson Carlisle Hibberd
C: Zaka Watson Myers
HF: Z Merrett Hurley Ambrose
FF: J Merrett Daniher Chappy
R: TBell Heppell Hocking
Int: Coyler Fantasia Pears
Sub: Winderlich

YOUNG (but saw 2013 action): Gleeson, Z Merrett, Ambrose, Fantasia
OUT (from best 22 in 2013): Dempsey, Ryder, Stanton, Howlett

Gives us 8 'talls': Hooker, Carlisle, Hurley, Daniher, TBell, Pears, Ambrose, Fletcher
Gives us 8 'pace/speedier/outside': Gleeson, Hibberd, Zaka, Z Merrett, J Merrett, Coyler, Fantasia, Winderlich
Gives us 4 'inside players': Watson, Myers, Heppell, Hocking
With a specialisit 'small defender' in Baguley
And a specialist 'small forward' in Chappy

So a trade for Dempsey and Ryder should get #5 + #35, and Stanton should get a second rounder, Howlett stays as depth on the list.

That would give us #5, #18, #26 and #35 in the draft.. as well as using a late pick to upgrade Ambrose.

Seems pretty good to me.

Goddard trying to break Mitchell's record for most touches in the reserves

 

[rines]

guy called goddard goes alright

Eeek.. I forgot Coyler the first time around too....

 

[rines]

OK so revision two:
*I'm assuming Dempsey and Ryder leave and Gleeson stays*

FB: Baguley Hooker Fletcher
HB: Goddard Carlisle Hibberd
C: Zaka Watson Myers
HF: Z Merrett Hurley Ambrose
FF: J Merrett Daniher Chappy
R: TBell Heppell Hocking
Int: Coyler Gleeson Pears
Sub: Winderlich

Eeek. Going to be very very hard to get spots in that team next year...

The 'weakest' spots will be J Merrett and Pears. But wanted an extra 'tall' to cover injury and also on have one ruck.. so if TBell goes down, then Daniher goes into the ruck, Carlisle goes forward and Pears goes to the backline.

J Merrett will be holding out Stanton, Edwards, Aylett, Fantasia, EKav, Dalgleish, NOB, Ashby and others..