2015 Draft Discussion

[Brett C]

I stand by original post, if William and Chol were from an anglo saxon background I think they both would have been drafted. Now I am not calling anyone racist, can't believe the tools who jumped to the conclusion and called me a racist. Surely they should be carded.

There was a time where indigenous players were not drafted due to the perceived cultural and behavioural issues. I feel we are going to need to have a number of Sudanese rookie listed players before clubs will confidently draft them.

I have seen racism from know it all white parents when picking Sudanese and African boys in teams. I also feel any of you who refer to Chol and William as project players are racist pigs. When was a white footballer last called a project player.

Seriously you don't want to say people are racist but unless they say William and Chol aren't afl ready players then we are racist???

For a list of project players how about Dean Brogan, Jim Stynes, Tadgh Kennelly, Pierce and Cian Hanley (pretty much any Gaelic footballer), Daniel Merrett, Israel Falou, Karmichael Hunt, Mike Pike, any American basketballer trying to make the switch.

There would have been dozens and dozens or players who are labelled a project player over the years.

its not a derogatory term to say a player is a project player and you cheapen the efforts of the Sudanese players by claiming racism.

 

[alscotoz2]

Acuguy has a decent point he's just going about it in a ******ed way. It's not racism though it's just different ethnicity's. E.g. Patty k coming from a big Greek family therefore more prone to homesickness. The Sudanese guys have shown to waver a bit in regards to application etc. I would be very surprised if recruiters don't think about these things, it isn't racism it's just how things are. No ones gonna jump down my throat if I claim that a guy we just drafted from a big Greek family is going to be more prone to homesickness. Seriously this PC crap has gotten absolutely insane lately. Not even allowed to have a discussion without people jumping down throats because someone somewheres feelings might have been a little hurt. Fully expecting to have my arsehole torn a new one for this post.

I've seen it in another code but in my experience this is true and it's such a bloody shame (although it is a complex area).

 

[James North]

Acuguy has a decent point he's just going about it in a ******ed way. It's not racism though it's just different ethnicity's. E.g. Patty k coming from a big Greek family therefore more prone to homesickness. The Sudanese guys have shown to waver a bit in regards to application etc. I would be very surprised if recruiters don't think about these things, it isn't racism it's just how things are. No ones gonna jump down my throat if I claim that a guy we just drafted from a big Greek family is going to be more prone to homesickness. Seriously this PC crap has gotten absolutely insane lately. Not even allowed to have a discussion without people jumping down throats because someone somewheres feelings might have been a little hurt. Fully expecting to have my arsehole torn a new one for this post.

Actually, that is racism. There is illegal racism and legal racism.

• Legal racism - "man black guys are awesome at bass guitar!" (or from Seinfeld - "if I like their race, how can that be racist?")
• Illegal racism - "man, black guys don't have the dedication to be great at bass guitar, so we won't employ this guy in our band"

Both decree something good/bad/specific about someone's race.

I think what acuguy is poorly attempting to say is that he feels that clubs may make assumptions, or 'profile' players of non-anglo backgrounds with some degree of prejudice and that it affects whether or not they are drafted. He may be right and he may be wrong, but I think that's his position.

Personally, I do not have a comment on these specific kids' backgrounds or their footballing ability and whether they were given every chance to be drafted.

 

[acuguy]

Sudanese guys have shown to waver a bit in regards to application
You want to talk racism, have a look at your broad statement Leemas, this is similar to exactly what was said about Indigenous footballers. I have found the responses here quite humorous to be honest. My experience working with Sudanese and African families probably gives me a different understanding of the barriers they have to overcome from white Australia.

I also probably have a different perspective having been involved in selection meetings where these cultural issues are raised and do determine whether a player is picked. Sad but true!

 

[Skoob]

I stand by original post, if William and Chol were from an anglo saxon background I think they both would have been drafted. Now I am not calling anyone racist, can't believe the tools who jumped to the conclusion and called me a racist. Surely they should be carded.

There was a time where indigenous players were not drafted due to the perceived cultural and behavioural issues. I feel we are going to need to have a number of Sudanese rookie listed players before clubs will confidently draft them.

I have seen racism from know it all white parents when picking Sudanese and African boys in teams. I also feel any of you who refer to Chol and William as project players are racist pigs. When was a white footballer last called a project player.

Some days you're full of s**t, and other days you're even fuller.
That Sudanese boys are passed over because of their blackness and not their lack of football nouse is a fantasy.
You playing the race card on their behalf does no-one any favours and perpetuates a notion that they need to be treated differently.

If anything, they are probably over-rated by some, because all Africans are awesome athletes, right? That's also racist.
I think a decision was made purely on their footballness. Pretty straight forward really.

 

[Dylan12]

1 spot for PSD/Senior list? or 1 spot including the rookie list?

We only have one available spot on both our primary and rookie lists and that one spot is our rookie list. We don't have any available senior list spots left and Rueben William will fill that last remaining rookie spot. No other club can trump us for him, we only have to and will nominate him and he becomes a Lions rookie.

 

[Lions_Insider]

We only have one available spot on both our primary and rookie lists and that one spot is our rookie list. We don't have any available senior list spots left and Rueben William will fill that last remaining rookie spot. No other club can trump us for him, we only have to and will nominate him and he becomes a Lions rookie.

That is correct Dylan, however Reuben could technically still be drafted to the senior list of a rival Club via the Pre-Season Draft.

But if he gets through to the Rookie Draft, the Lions will absolutely lock him in. The Club was planning on selecting William with its 4th or 5th pick at the National Draft depending on how the bidding for Hipwood/Keays turned out, but ended up having to overlook him as Mathieson and Skinner were simply too appealing to overlook at Picks 39 and 47 respectively.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Hopefully he gets thru.

 

[JasRulz63]

Mathieson and Keays have shown that they can both have an impact in the forward line this year, which is where they'll probably start at senior level before transitioning into the midfield. We also picked up Bell and Bastinac who have both shown they can hit the scoreboard.

With Beams, Rockliff, Christensen, Robinson, Zorko and Lester at the club already, it leaves us with a lot of firepower coming from the midfield.

 

[BRAB]

Yeah our current generation of mids will transition well with our next generation. Midfield sorted for the next 12 years I'd say.

If these young kids meet their potential all of a sudden our list is looking killer.

So excited for the future.

 

[Ironmonger]

I've just been watching Reuben William's champs highlights.

He reminds me a lot of a young Pearce Hanley.

 

[jackess]

I've just been watching Reuben William's champs highlights.

He reminds me a lot of a young Pearce Hanley.

I love his instinct to run and find space the moment he gets the footy.

 

[Ironmonger]

I love his instinct to run and find space the moment he gets the footy.

Me too. He wants to play a metre or so behind and get to the ball at pace. It's exciting to watch.

I reckon Hanley could probably help him out with his kicking too. I've always believed that Hanley's kicking isn't all that great, it's just that he knows his limits and generally picks the best option.

 

[Kevvo]

I see where you guys are coming from with the young Hanley comparison and I think it's pretty apt. Excitingly, he seems also to have a touch more aggression at the contest.

Players who win contests and burst into space like William also tend to catch defences off guard I think, which often translates into a few disposal options. That being the case, I reckon Reuben could be a pretty effective and damaging user even with moderate refinements to his kicking.

 

[Quigley]

Whilst I do not agree with Acuguy that the decision to pass on Chol and William was racism it is probably a point worth discussing given that we have been well below the league average for indigenous players for a long time now. Personally I think we probably have a lot of the issues with indigenous players that were mentioned by Matt Rendall in 2012. For his candour he was slammed for one throw away line and this allowed the AFL to conveniently overlook the very real underlying issues. Mifsud has his own very prevalent racist tendencies (yes indigenous people can be racists) which I think really prevents him from being an appropriate conduit between the indigenous and non indigenous AFL communities. I am sure after that club officials would have no interest in talking with him.

With that said it was great to see the AFL step in and help Eades this year. They facilitated a move of states to a great school and ended up getting a kid drafted who was on the fast track to jail.

 

[dlanod]

I've just been watching Reuben William's champs highlights.

He reminds me a lot of a young Pearce Hanley.

Racist.

 

[jackess]

Whilst I do not agree with Acuguy that the decision to pass on Chol and William was racism it is probably a point worth discussing given that we have been well below the league average for indigenous players for a long time now. Personally I think we probably have a lot of the issues with indigenous players that were mentioned by Matt Rendall in 2012. For his candour he was slammed for one throw away line and this allowed the AFL to conveniently overlook the very real underlying issues. Mifsud has his own very prevalent racist tendencies (yes indigenous people can be racists) which I think really prevents him from being an appropriate conduit between the indigenous and non indigenous AFL communities. I am sure after that club officials would have no interest in talking with him.

With that said it was great to see the AFL step in and help Eades this year. They facilitated a move of states to a great school and ended up getting a kid drafted who was on the fast track to jail.

I've been disappointed with our reluctance to draft indigenous kids.

Does Queensland have a lower indigenous population than other states or are they drawn to different sports?

I ask this because it would seem that very few indigenous kids play footy in Queensland. Correct me if I'm wrong but our under 18 had more sudanese than indigenous this year. Also there seem to be very few if any in our academy.

 

[Mr Ripper]

They play Leeg.

 

[Quigley]

I've been disappointed with our reluctance to draft indigenous kids.

Does Queensland have a lower indigenous population than other states or are they drawn to different sports?

I ask this because it would seem that very few indigenous kids play footy in Queensland. Correct me if I'm wrong but our under 18 had more sudanese than indigenous this year. Also there seem to be very few if any in our academy.

I think if we put in the effort we could be a destination club for the NT guys. Weather and more relaxed lifestyle for AFL players could appeal.

 

[jackess]

I think if we put in the effort we could be a destination club for the NT guys. Weather and more relaxed lifestyle for AFL players could appeal.

It would be good to get to them earlier. With NT juniors boarding in SA and Victoria it would be good to get them to Queensland first.

 

[dlanod]

It would be good to get to them earlier. With NT juniors boarding in SA and Victoria it would be good to get them to Queensland first.

The kids in question board in those states partly because they have top level AFL teams in good AFL leagues. I don't think we're at a stage where Queensland schools can offer that, though hopefully it will change.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think if we put in the effort we could be a destination club for the NT guys. Weather and more relaxed lifestyle for AFL players could appeal.

Its be nice given the trouble we've had keeping what we've got I can see why the club doesn't take more on. Hopefully it changes in the future.

 

[winged1]

I think if we put in the effort we could be a destination club for the NT guys. Weather and more relaxed lifestyle for AFL players could appeal.

A lot of the NT guys seem to be linked to the SA clubs where they can go and play SANFL and come through the ranks. I suppose the weaker 2nd tier comp may be hurting us. Even though we have had a lot of indigenous players come through (since the Bears) the successful ones largely came as mature age players McLean, McAdam, Johnson where the younger ones we either lost or were lost to football Proud, Headland, Clark, Corrie and the Ipswich kid who didnt want to play whose name totally escapes me. Having said that Whitey and Ash McGrath played their entire careers here. So I dont know if it is the club or are less indigenous kids being drafted by all clubs?

 

[M Malice]

A lot of the NT guys seem to be linked to the SA clubs where they can go and play SANFL and come through the ranks. I suppose the weaker 2nd tier comp may be hurting us. Even though we have had a lot of indigenous players come through (since the Bears) the successful ones largely came as mature age players McLean, McAdam, Johnson where the younger ones we either lost or were lost to football Proud, Headland, Clark, Corrie and the Ipswich kid who didnt want to play whose name totally escapes me. Having said that Whitey and Ash McGrath played their entire careers here. So I dont know if it is the club or are less indigenous kids being drafted by all clubs?

the ipswich kid. rahn hooper?

 

[pauldrc]

Speaking of ruckman, Are we a ruck short on our list...?? Martin, West(highly injury prone) and Smith (never played)... If Stef gets injured we could be into our 2nd and 3rd options pretty quick and they are hardly solid options, I would think our first rookie spot should go to best available ruckman.

Could Hipwood become Stef Martin V2.0?

Seems like we have enough tall forwards/backs ATM, but surely could use a mobile Ruck/FWD, and he seems to keep on growing....