2015 Draft Discussion

[SizeMatters]

Has only been in the system 3 years, with one wiped out by injury. Has shown "glimpses" which is the minimum expectation for a young forward to justify their spot on the list.

Contracted for two more years after this one. Has time.

Big rapts from the club on Close. Has tools but also a fair few weaknesses. Glad that he was on 2 more years.

 

[Caiphus]

If he's putting on the bulk and still running over 16s on the beep test when he comes back from a knee reco then there will be plenty of use for him over the next two years. The stronger he gets, the more he will be able to use that endurance to burn off opponents because he isn't sapping all his energy in the wrestles he loves so much.

I love a player who is prepared to engage physically like he does, and it is just that it is so sapping for him we have never really seen his running power in games. I think he can take a grab and when he follows his full kicking routine is a good kick for goal (big caveat though is his routine is easily disrupted because of the way he likes to push the man on the mark and if they engage him back it seems to mess with his head). His field kicking is good though so as a long ranging CHF he can still make a pretty huge difference to our structure and getting the ball quickly into the forward line.

 

[Kevvo]

If he's putting on the bulk and still running over 16s on the beep test when he comes back from a knee reco then there will be plenty of use for him over the next two years. The stronger he gets, the more he will be able to use that endurance to burn off opponents because he isn't sapping all his energy in the wrestles he loves so much.

I love a player who is prepared to engage physically like he does, and it is just that it is so sapping for him we have never really seen his running power in games. I think he can take a grab and when he follows his full kicking routine is a good kick for goal (big caveat though is his routine is easily disrupted because of the way he likes to push the man on the mark and if they engage him back it seems to mess with his head). His field kicking is good though so as a long ranging CHF he can still make a pretty huge difference to our structure and getting the ball quickly into the forward line.

I think this is on the money.

I don't think Close will ever be the type to cut loose and kick 6 goals, but he does strike me as someone who could become a 2 goals a game type and play an important role in the side. As you say, he's also capable of doing good linkup work upfield. Importantly, he seems to have the right psychology for the role. He wants to be the aggressive spearhead.

I'm not sure if the stats would support this, but I recall him putting in quite a lot of tackles for a young KPF as well. The club clearly rates him, so I'm excited to see what shape he comes back in.

 

[jjami15]

If anything what we are also doing is we are building depth in the areas of our KPP's which is mind blowing in relation to where we were a number of years ago. Importantly it has to be noted also that the best teams have depth in all areas. Where Close will finish up is anyone's game but as they are all quite young none of them are really settled on specific positions and over the next few years this will be further defined. With the addition of Schache and Hipwood in quite excited but continue to tell myself to be patient.

 

[Eons]

Thing I love about Schache is he is a great kick for goal. Nothing more frustrating as a supporter when forwards can't finish off the good work of the team. Freeman has become a very reliable kick and adding Schache to the mix gives us some great scoring power moving forward. Not to mention when they both fill out they will be absolute monsters, very hard for any team to stop 2 quality 200cm forwards.

 

[SizeMatters]

From exposed form I think the following are locks or as close as you can get:

Freeman
Andrews
McStay
Clarke

Not a lot of best 22 locks from our list though.

Question marks

Close
Gardiner
Schache
Hipwood

I'm just assuming we get Schache and Hipwood. Probably forgot some poor b@stard.

It is a good mix to have I think but expect to see a few ask to leave as positions are as rare as hens teeth.

 

[Crawb]

Hopefully Weitering puts in a great performance and forces us to pick him. Is clearly the better player and I hope Lions don't pick Schache as it will bite us later on.

Yeah, because picking players who don't want to play for us is working out so well....

 

[SizeMatters]

Yeah, because picking players who don't want to play for us is working out so well....

sorry, have I missed something? I keep seeing this but not sure where it has come from.

 

[Kevvo]

Thing I love about Schache is he is a great kick for goal. Nothing more frustrating as a supporter when forwards can't finish off the good work of the team. Freeman has become a very reliable kick and adding Schache to the mix gives us some great scoring power moving forward. Not to mention when they both fill out they will be absolute monsters, very hard for any team to stop 2 quality 200cm forwards.

Schache reportedly has a pretty good tank as well, so you could play him in a slightly more mobile sort of role.

If we can retain these kids I feel like we're starting to build a really balanced foundation of talent. Our current midfield is certainly enough to be going on with, and we're developing some depth of talent including a couple of really high quality prospects at either end. Particularly if the academy can produce an out-of-the-box midfielder in the next couple of years (Allison hopeful), we should hopefully be in a position to build a winning culture with this midfield core.

 

[Crawb]

sorry, have I missed something? I keep seeing this but not sure where it has come from.

Schache has explicitly stated he would like to come to the Lions.

Weitering will be another Aish (rumour is Weitering really wants to stay in Victoria)...and as I can't see us making the Top 8 in the next two years it'll be very hard to convince him to stay. Can't risk loosing a Pick #1, it is just too valuable.

 

[SizeMatters]

Well at least we have pick 1. Was getting worried that Blues might somehow get pick 1 and 2.

 

[theteamtobeat]

Where does this leave Close? He will be on the outer I would think now. He has some good tools such as his endurance but he doesn't utilize it for game day. Hope he gets more confidence after putting on another 5 kg of bulk.

He can play back. Played as a key defender in he's junior days in the TAC.

 

[dlanod]

Schache has explicitly stated he would like to come to the Lions.

Weitering will be another Aish (rumour is Weitering really wants to stay in Victoria)...and as I can't see us making the Top 8 in the next two years it'll be very hard to convince him to stay. Can't risk loosing a Pick #1, it is just too valuable.

The Victorian rumour is really just because he signed Pickering as his manager. I haven't heard it linked with anything more concrete than that.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The Victorian rumour is really just because he signed Pickering as his manager. I haven't heard it linked with anything more concrete than that.

It's enough to spook me.

 

[dmac_55]

Surely you see the potential for Schache to develop more than weitering.. A mindset of who wins the 1V1 matchup this week or who has had the better year overall in the competition is very short sighted.. What you are doing when recruiiting is predicting who will be better down the track and who has more room for progress.. To me a 200 cm key forward who can kick very accurately for goal and has a big tank has a much higher upside than a KPD who as people have already said is much more developed then others his age.. Weitering will probably show more on the field next year as well.. But it Schache in 4 years is kicking 50 goals a year and monstering opponents the upside difference is enormous..

Also I think the go home factor is much less with Schache than weitering as previously stated.

 

[KissKiss]

Well at least we have pick 1. Was getting worried that Blues might somehow get pick 1 and 2.

Lots of talk at the moment on the Dogs putting a big offer in front of Kreuzer so it might be 2 and 3 thankfully

 

[John_Proctor]

From exposed form I think the following are locks or as close as you can get:

Freeman
Andrews
McStay
Clarke

Not a lot of best 22 locks from our list though.

Question marks

Close
Gardiner
Schache
Hipwood

I'm just assuming we get Schache and Hipwood. Probably forgot some poor b@stard.

It is a good mix to have I think but expect to see a few ask to leave as positions are as rare as hens teeth.

an interesting post - I still see with all of our talls very varied possibilities (i.e. Freeman could be Tippett or Spandermann). I tend to agree with your assessment though although assuming we get Schace he probably goes into the lock category - not neccessarily as an A-Grader but as a minimum a 'good average' player. even a 'bad' #1 pick tends to become a 200 gamer.

re: Close - I can't quite remember but I have a feeling last year I used to get frustrated that he just wasn't quite clunking his marks. With his running ability I see him as more of a roaming CHF playing outside 50m like N Riewoldt or from a poor mans perspective maybe Sam Reid who tends to play a bit higher at Sydney leaving forward 50 for Tippett/Buddy. Needs to clunk his marks to make the team, I don't forsee him as a particularly big goalkicker. Last year his form really waned when he was forced to give Martin a chop out in the ruck the last 5 or so games.

Need 7 talls + 1 ruckman. 3 talls at each end and a swingman.

so
Defence: Clarke, Andrews, Gardiner (question mark is are we confident he is big enough to be third tall type)
Forward: Freeman, Schace, Close
Swingman: McStay
Ruck: Martin
Depth: Hipwood (maybe Bourke, Beasley, Paine) (and short term Merritt and McGuane)

 

[KissKiss]

While its a long way ahead I wonder if we need to start looking at drafting more midfielders next year. The last couple of years we have taken on a lot of talls. Our midfield is mostly older. Once this current group of talls (as posted by J_P above) gets into their prime our mids will be older. Our age balance will be really off for the long term if we dont start getting a few good young mids into the team

 

[jackess]

While its a long way ahead I wonder if we need to start looking at drafting more midfielders next year. The last couple of years we have taken on a lot of talls. Our midfield is mostly older. Once this current group of talls (as posted by J_P above) gets into their prime our mids will be older. Our age balance will be really off for the long term if we dont start getting a few good young mids into the team

We've been drafting too many in between types; Beasley, McGuiness, Watts, Clayton, Dawson, Gardiner, McStay, etc. It was scary the lack of midfield depth this season.

 

[theteamtobeat]

While its a long way ahead I wonder if we need to start looking at drafting more midfielders next year. The last couple of years we have taken on a lot of talls. Our midfield is mostly older. Once this current group of talls (as posted by J_P above) gets into their prime our mids will be older. Our age balance will be really off for the long term if we dont start getting a few good young mids into the team

Hello, heard of bloke called Ben Keayes.

 

[jackess]

Hello, heard of bloke called Ben Keayes.

No. Who's Ben Keayes?

 

[Fatcat08]

There will be a role for Close in the short to medium term that's for sure. Anything past that is dependent on how he develops. If we pick up Schache I would be pretty surprised if a 17/18 year old 200cm forward managed to play any more than 2/3rds of the games in the first season no matter who they are.

Cameron played 16 in his first
Daniher played 5
Patton played 7
Boyd played 9
Hogan played 15 out of 19 rounds in the VFL
Lynch played 13
Dixon played 10

Going back further

Riewoldt played 6
Browny played 13

So yes there will be plenty of opportunity for Close, Freeman, Mcstay and whoever else to play decent time up forward next year even if we do get Schache.

 

[Old Den]

It's enough to spook me.

Me too...if Weitering turns out to be as good as the pundits are saying that he will be,there will be concerted and persistent efforts to lure him to a Vic club as soon as you like with the usual suspects leading the charge.

I'm in the Operation Get Schache camp...I recorded the U18 Champ games and I've seen enough.

My second preference...Francis.

 

[KissKiss]

Hello, heard of bloke called Ben Keayes.

Yep and someone called Allison after that.

Just worried that we might trend too far in one way.

 

[Haso]

McStay

McStay is the odd one out of that group there jackess. Pretty sure he's 196cm isn't he?