2015 Draft Discussion

[Quigley]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Combine.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

 

[SizeMatters]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Champs.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

That's my feeling on Schache as well. I hope he turns out to be a bit more combative... Seems quite placid from what I've seen.

 

[jackess]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Combine.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

Is Schache definitely the standout key forward in this draft in your opinion?

 

[Quigley]

Yes.

Although Weideman and Burton were two very good prospects who we haven't seen due to injuries. Burton impressed me a lot last year but he is a bit short. McKay is also very interesting given his height and late birthday.

 

[mikey127]

Yes.

Although Weideman and Burton were two very good prospects who we haven't seen due to injuries. Burton impressed me a lot last year but he is a bit short. McKay is also very interesting given his height and late birthday.

Wouldn't be keen on Burton, The last Burton we had at the club just seemed to be responsible for a lot of injuries.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I saw a bit of Weideman before he was injured and while he has some good attributes (mobility and pace notably) he is really a totally different type to Schache and not the sort of dominant key forward we are after. I have watched Schache quite a bit this year. He is clearly the best key forward in the U18's but despite what some have said he is not the "complete package". As Quigley has said, he lacks pace and this would explain why he can fail to get separation on the lead even against backmen who are not themselves particularly quick. But who cares, he is the best available and we need him and if Carlton do the right thing we will get him.

 

[BigCat2]

I think it's pargely academic. Carlton will pick Weitering and we will pick Schache.

There are always risks of key position kids not making it for some reason, but your hit rate is highest in the first round.

Eric Hipwood is a good recruit as he may end up at either end with a very high ceiling.

 

[carnthemlions]

I saw a bit of Weideman before he was injured and while he has some good attributes (mobility and pace notably) he is really a totally different type to Schache and not the sort of dominant key forward we are after. I have watched Schache quite a bit this year. He is clearly the best key forward in the U18's but despite what some have said he is not the "complete package". As Quigley has said, he lacks pace and this would explain why he can fail to get separation on the lead even against backmen who are not themselves particularly quick. But who cares, he is the best available and we need him and if Carlton do the right thing we will get him.

I'm not overly worried about those deficiencies- Boyd and McCartin both have similar issues.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I'm not overly worried about those deficiencies- Boyd and McCartin both have similar issues.

And it is showing.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think worst case scenario with Schache and his deficiencies is that you will get a big target who demands the footy and can bring the ball to ground for the crumbers.

And with his textbook goal kicking technique, he won't need to absolutely dominate up forward and take a mountain of marks in order to impact the scoreboard.

 

[carnthemlions]

And it is showing.

I haven't seen enough of McCartin to come to any conclusions, but those issues have quite obviously held Boyd back- Daniher too.
I won't be surprised if Schache also struggles early on, it isn't easy for young forwards to adapt to the way AFL teams defend now. Using a high pick on a KPF isn't a quick fix unless you end up with Jeremy Cameron.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Combine.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

fair call... how do you see Weideman & Curnow? Would lions still be considering them as the forward or is Schache or Weitering locked in?

 

[Balony_pony16]

I think worst case scenario with Schache and his deficiencies is that you will get a big target who demands the footy and can bring the ball to ground for the crumbers.

And with his textbook goal kicking technique, he won't need to absolutely dominate up forward and take a mountain of marks in order to impact the scoreboard.

yeah his goal kicking is that good he will have lots of games where he will get 4-6 inside 50 marks and kick 4-6 goals etc..

 

[Balony_pony16]

Matthew Watson delisted by the Blues... I would be happy to give him a 2nd chance. Rookie draft or late pick

 

[pauldrc]

Matthew Watson delisted by the Blues... I would be happy to give him a 2nd chance. Rookie draft or late pick

How many spots left do we still have?

More delisting to come, and will we take any other academy boys??

 

[Groo2]

I'm not overly worried about those deficiencies- Boyd and McCartin both have similar issues.

I immediately think working with Browny will sort out any deficiencies, then I wonder how much do I/we over-rate Brown's influence?

 

[Fatcat08]

I immediately think working with Browny will sort out any deficiencies, then I wonder how much do I/we over-rate Brown's influence?

Browny is most likely moving to Melb for a few years next season so his involvement with the club will likely be minimal to none. TBH given how much he's in Melb this season I'm not too sure how often he was at the club anyway.

 

[winged1]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Combine.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

You can train specifically for speed and improve, though you would think Schache is coming out of a fairly professional environment, so the upside may be minimal. The other question is when did he grow? If he was a late bloomer then he might still be catching up with his frame and the power may come along naturally in the next couple of years.

Weitering's test results were amazing good endurance and outright speed and power. Wouldnt be upset at all with him.

 

[carnthemlions]

You can train specifically for speed and improve, though you would think Schache is coming out of a fairly professional environment, so the upside may be minimal. The other question is when did he grow? If he was a late bloomer then he might still be catching up with his frame and the power may come along naturally in the next couple of years.

Weitering's test results were amazing good endurance and outright speed and power. Wouldnt be upset at all with him.

Apparently Schache made a lot of improvement from where he was last year- suggests there could be more to come. Coming from country Vic, I'd also wonder if he's coming out of a fairly professional environment.

 

[Lions Lions]

Matthew Watson delisted by the Blues... I would be happy to give him a 2nd chance. Rookie draft or late pick

A very average player on a weak team no way!

 

[winged1]

Apparently Schache made a lot of improvement from where he was last year- suggests there could be more to come. Coming from country Vic, I'd also wonder if he's coming out of a fairly professional environment.

I would think there would be a fair bit of expertise around Vic Country, but going to a AFL level club with strength and conditioning should definitely be another step. So hopefully a) we get him and b) he does take a big leap forward.

I thought it was interesting that even Brownie as strong as he was had a very weak core, I know he did a lot of specific training on his core strength.

If he grew relatively recently it takes a couple of years for strength to catch up to frame, which bodes well for Hipwood he grew late but still tested well in power.

 

[bhys16]

Schache is a big kid who has used his physical advantage very well against smaller and weaker opponents. He is a good goal kicker and has done very well this year. I certainly pick him but he is one of the biggest bust risks to come through in the last few years. He is slow (has not run under 3.2 in any test that he has done) and has very small hands (not the end of the world but a bit of a concern for a forward) measuring in at only 20.5cm at the Combine.

Weitering has a much higher floor and as high a ceiling, albeit in a lower value position. We do not need Weitering but if we ended up with him I would not be complaining. The risk is a hell of a lot less.

With all due respect ( I know you watch a ton of junior football) I got a different perception of Schache from watching tape then you.

It would appear his aerobic ability and smart, well timed leads make up for his poor tested straight line speed. Also saw great lateral agility for a guy his size, in a few clips, with shots at goal around the body and sidestepping players or shielding a teammate with good footwork. I think these abilities far outweigh straight line speed.

On your point about Schache using his strength to outmark physically weaker opponents, I see it a bit differently again.. It seems he is quite adept at reading the flight of the ball earlier then his opponent and then uses his hips and bum well.. but its not like he is throwing kids aside to take marks.. I believe his skillset here will translate into AFL nicely.

The last point about the hands is interesting.. but once again going by tape he seems to take the mark at its highest point and often one clunks them. If you can grab it at over 3meters in the air and in one go, hand size doesnt seem to matter..

I see Josh Kennedy in him rather than Browny or John Patton mold, but hey all he will need to do is touch the ball 8 times a game and he will get his 2-3 goals a game, his kicking is truly beautiful.

 

[xplo]

Until one of them becomes a star at another club and the media decide to clip the Lions... "geez they have these academies and they arent even using it properly... how did they let this kid go!"

Totally. We have to probably cop that. It'll still probably be worth it if we can get 10 more years of cherry picking a Keays, Allison or Ballenden cheap each year.

 

[JasRulz63]

Matthew Watson delisted by the Blues... I would be happy to give him a 2nd chance. Rookie draft or late pick

He was interviewed this morning on SEN and there didn't seem too much interest in him.

 

[xplo]

And with his textbook goal kicking technique, he won't need to absolutely dominate up forward and take a mountain of marks in order to impact the scoreboard.

Also a pretty good chance of drawing freekicks at his height as backmen are trying to spoil a ball they can't reach.