Analysis 2015 Forward structure

[therubbernub]

The potential dynamics in our new forward line is becoming very interesting. Reading reports from numerous sources I think there are a few conclusions and a few unknowns.

1 We will have three key forward setup. The three pillars policy.
2 Henderson is going to settle in the forward line. no more swinging! First pillar
3 Jones is a big part of our plan. He is another of our Key forwards. malthouse is very impressed. Second pillar
4 The resting Rucks will be expected to contribute (Kreuzer and Casboult) Third Pillar
5 Tutt will play half forward.

this leaves 2 spots to be filled

1 Small crumbing forward
2 Goal kicking half forward.

unknown/ speculation
Crumbing forward . The loss of betts and Garlett has hurt us. Clem Smith could be the replacement. Is he fit enough? He is certainly tough, can lay a tackle and is very creative. Other candidates?

Other half forward. Candidates- With the three pillars policy do we need another marking target ie Walker.
Walker has endurance and speed. He is flexible. He could play elsewhere, assist in our outside run in the midfield or play off half back.
Menzel. his endurance should be approaching where it needs to be after this years preseason to move into the midfield. His talent should be given a greater influence than just half forward.
Yarran. Is he too valuable setting up play off half back. His run and carry is elite. Would it be wasted off half forward?
Thomas?
Judd?

 

[BluStreak]

I dont think we will have specific people for those last two positions. Would believe that those would be filled on rotation basis.
Thus giving our regular mids a rest in the forward line without using up a sideline rotation.

My concern with Walker up forward is his habit of going for the big speccie and not playing the odds correctly.
Menzel will start forward with short periods in the midfield, thats my take on his 2015.
Yarran is high half back but would rather him as an outside mid.
Clem has to prove himself first before he gets a game, as to all the rookies/draftees.
Would only expect the trades to get a regular look in this season.

 

[ShanDog]

If we have Menzel, Thomas, Judd, Murphy, Walker, Gibbs and Yarran all spending minutes in the F50 for a rest or tactical change-up, it doesn't matter who it is, they are going to be dangerous for defenders. The way it should be.

 

[Amers]

My best forward set up looks like this

HF, Walker, Henderson, Menzel
FF Casboult, Jones, Resting Mid.(Gibbs, Judd, Murphy)

I'll be interested in how much opportunity players like Tutt, Ellard and Smith get.

I really really hope Walker is played forward this year. I won't believe it til I see it !!

 

[therubbernub]

I dont think we will have specific people for those last two positions. Would believe that those would be filled on rotation basis.
Thus giving our regular mids a rest in the forward line without using up a sideline rotation.

My concern with Walker up forward is his habit of going for the big speccie and not playing the odds correctly.
Menzel will start forward with short periods in the midfield, thats my take on his 2015.
Yarran is high half back but would rather him as an outside mid.
Clem has to prove himself first before he gets a game, as to all the rookies/draftees.
Would only expect the trades to get a regular look in this season.

Yes Walker is often criticized for taking the big leap option. Ratts didnt care though- the look on his face after Walker took The One was priceless. One thing that might mitigate that is his injuries age and experience. I always felt that the way he dismounted was always going to cause harm- ankles , hamstrings.
I feel that clem will reveal his colors pretty quickly, but there is obviously a fitness issue there atm.

 

[Juddalenko]

My best forward set up looks like this

HF, Walker, Henderson, Menzel
FF Casboult, Jones, Resting Mid.(Gibbs, Judd, Murphy)

I'll be interested in how much opportunity players like Tutt, Ellard and Smith get.

I really really hope Walker is played forward this year. I won't believe it til I see it !!

Yeah, this was my vision too. Wouldn't be surprised to see Judd up there a bit, just to keep the old man fresh for our premiership finals series tilt.....haha

Would love to see Jones & Henderson push up and have Levi push back sometimes to leave him one on one in F50 (don't do it as "the plan" though - dynamic forward lines are the best).

 

[SickQwon]

Watson deserves a mention, Henderson's/Jones' back up?

 

[SickQwon]

Our best set up:
HF: Walker, Henderson, Thomas
FF: Jones, Casboult, Menzel

To help with rotations:
Tutt
Kreuzer
Judd
Everitt
Johnson

To make a few appearances:
Ellard
Gibbs
Watson
Boekhorst
Yarran
White

Jaksch?

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Docherty, Doc snagged a couple of nice goals last season, actually seems like he has good attacking instincts and definitely should cone under consideration if the likes of Walker, Jones, Ellard struggle at times.

Ideally would love our mids (esp Murphy) to kick more goals, and Mick has indicated Yarran will be playing further up the ground next season (on the wing/pushing up to the HFF) which is exciting.

Suspect Jaksch (at least initially) will be played as a defender.

 

[ShanDog]

Really, there would only be a small handful of players in each game who would surprise us if they kicked a goal.

The team list is being built around versatility and roleplayers. Just about everyone should be able to go into an attacking position/posture when the situation dictates.

 

[MileHigh]

We can all agree on the talls being Henderson, Jones and a resting ruck in Kreuzer/Casboult. That's 3 players.

Menzel is too good around the goals to not still be there and the way I see it is he remains in the forward 50, coming out to give a mid a rest in the forward line. Thats all we need from him. We dont need him to become this elite mid, we need him kicking goals and simply lend a hand in the middle. That's 4 players (ie. Menzel or the resting mid).

For mine, you need to have a nuggety small forward. That's gonna have to be Tutt or Smith seemingly at this stage. You'd certainly say Tutt will be that guy. Can also play through the middle for resting rotations. Seems to be a bit of a weak point for us now (or at least largely unproven) as we have been lucky enough to have Betts and Garlett over the past 10 years. That's 5 players.

The real question remains is (at least for me) who is the 6th person? We have height, we have x factor, we have nuggetiness... maybe it is Walker. Someone who has goal sense. We know he has kicked 50 goals before. He has the engine too so maybe its a forward half of the ground kind of role, sprinting to space on the turnovers and being inside the 50 for that player with extra spring. We already have Jones who has that, but another player who can jump so effectively can play small or tall as well as a huge engine would certainly be tough to match up on, and with us at full strength getting those 6 together in the forward line would be bloody hard to match up on IMO.

There, I solved it. Close the thread. Meh, pretty much the same as everyone elses theory. Nothing to see here. Move on.

 

[reg_lower91]

I'm still firmly of the belief that Ellard has much to offer our team. I see him playing mainly as a Menzel type (small-medium forward offering relief through the middle). Can crumb and can also offer a good option on the lead at times, as was seen throughout 2014 in patches. I'm hoping (and tipping) he'll be one of the most improved players this year.

 

[therubbernub]

reg obviously MM sees the same things in Ellard. For me he is just a good ordinary player with no great strengths. But it would be wonderful for the team if he held down a forward spot with rotation. It would allow more rotations of our more exciting players. Do you think its his defensive side that shines?

 

[reg_lower91]

reg obviously MM sees the same things in Ellard. For me he is just a good ordinary player with no great strengths. But it would be wonderful for the team if he held down a forward spot with rotation. It would allow more rotations of our more exciting players. Do you think its his defensive side that shines?

Defensive side is impressive but there's not necessarily one part about him that stands out. It's more the fact that I honestly think he's got the talent, hard work and footy smarts to make it. Just needs to be backed in by a coach and shown a little faith, of which he's only really had for one season under Ratten (2011). I'd really like to see him given a full 22 games to prove his worth (granted his spot has to be earned at the same time).

 

[thylacine60]

I'm still firmly of the belief that Ellard has much to offer our team. I see him playing mainly as a Menzel type (small-medium forward offering relief through the middle). Can crumb and can also offer a good option on the lead at times, as was seen throughout 2014 in patches. I'm hoping (and tipping) he'll be one of the most improved players this year.

For a player who came across from the West with a rep as as a goal-sneak, some of his stuff last year was disappointing. If he's missing those his value is limited I reckon.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Defensive side is impressive but there's not necessarily one part about him that stands out. It's more the fact that I honestly think he's got the talent, hard work and footy smarts to make it. Just needs to be backed in by a coach and shown a little faith, of which he's only really had for one season under Ratten (2011). I'd really like to see him given a full 22 games to prove his worth (granted his spot has to be earned at the same time).

Not sure what you mean by the bolded? Mick has backed him all the way, as evidenced by the fact that MM has picked Ellard pretty much every time he's been fit and available.

 

[HARKER]

Mids have to kick goals.............simple as that.

Murphy - 10 goals, Gibbs - 18 goals, Thomas - 12 goals, Judd - 7 goals, Curnow - 2 goals makes for pretty poor reading.
Each of those players is capable of a much better return than that.

Forward structure?

I think only Henderson & Jones may be guaranteed to spend most of their time forward.
I don't think that Casboult is a lock 22 game player this year either, given what Mick wants from Kreuzer.

 

[gandaal]

For a player who came across from the West with a rep as as a goal-sneek, some of his stuff last year was disappointing. If he's missing those his value is limited I reckon.

He cost us severely last year. A real shame because I always rated Ellard.

Well he's got a last chance, more than can be said for quite a few others.

 

[therubbernub]

Mids have to kick goals.............simple as that.

Murphy - 10 goals, Gibbs - 18 goals, Thomas - 12 goals, Judd - 7 goals, Curnow - 2 goals makes for pretty poor reading.
Each of those players is capable of a much better return than that.

Forward structure?

I think only Henderson & Jones may be guaranteed to spend most of their time forward.
I don't think that Casboult is a lock 22 game player this year either, given what Mick wants from Kreuzer.

You are not feeling the love for K and Bolt sharing the ruck and resting forward?

 

[HARKER]

You are not feeling the love for K and Bolt sharing the ruck and resting forward?

I think that makes for the best scenario but Mick seems to be pretty keen on Wood being heavily involved also.

Just can't see the three being part of the same team. A couple of poor games from Casboult and he could easily find himself playing VFL football.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Wouldn't mind seeing BB go forward. Knows where the goals are, quick and skilful. Definitely see him spending time forward in 2015.

 

[BrunoV]

Going to be a very interesting mix of forwards in 2015.

There is a lot of mobility and power in the key posts and real class at ground level though probably not that much depth.

Henderson is a gun and I think that you're going to be very surprised by Jones. There was more to the story in 2014. He was playing 1 out as a key forward and was being ignored by the Dogs as they crabbed the ball forward from defence to then be dropped one game after kicking 4. He was more than a class above in the VFL in the 4 or 5 games I saw him play to finish the VFL season (including his total domination of our VFL team).

A mix of players like Walker, Menzel, Tutt, Thomas and maybe Judd also provides a good blend of speed and class (with decent aerial ability).

If Casboult can get his kicking sorted and/or Kreuzer can turn into a genuine force on the lead it will tie everything together nicely though I suspect that the best balance would be Kreuzer playing as number 1 ruck with Casboult providing the relief.

Going to be a few really difficult match ups if everyone can get on the park.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

Going to be a very interesting mix of forwards in 2015.

There is a lot of mobility and power in the key posts and real class at ground level though probably not that much depth.

Henderson is a gun and I think that you're going to be very surprised by Jones. There was more to the story in 2014. He was playing 1 out as a key forward and was being ignored by the Dogs as they crabbed the ball forward from defence to then be dropped one game after kicking 4. He was more than a class above in the VFL in the 4 or 5 games I saw him play to finish the VFL season (including his total domination of our VFL team).

A mix of players like Walker, Menzel, Tutt, Thomas and maybe Judd also provides a good blend of speed and class (with decent aerial ability).

If Casboult can get his kicking sorted and/or Kreuzer can turn into a genuine force on the lead it will tie everything together nicely though I suspect that the best balance would be Kreuzer playing as number 1 ruck with Casboult providing the relief.

Going to be a few really difficult match ups if everyone can get on the park.

Respect for the Iron Sheik avatar!!

I can just hear him now....

Russia number 1, Iran number 1, USA huck taaawwwwwww!!

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Mids have to kick goals.............simple as that.

Murphy - 10 goals, Gibbs - 18 goals, Thomas - 12 goals, Judd - 7 goals, Curnow - 2 goals makes for pretty poor reading.
Each of those players is capable of a much better return than that.

Forward structure?

I think only Henderson & Jones may be guaranteed to spend most of their time forward.
I don't think that Casboult is a lock 22 game player this year either, given what Mick wants from Kreuzer.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your pov) Henderson has saved our bacon playing down back a few times last year (IE North Melbourne)

Its definitely a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario, but we probably still require Hendo to play down back, especially with teams with Gorilla Power Forwards.

The backline for me is still bit of a concern for me, especially considered Jamo's history of injuries, Jaksch definitely has to played primarily as a defender, considering our lack of tall defensive options right now.

 

[therubbernub]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your pov) Henderson has saved our bacon playing down back a few times last year (IE North Melbourne)

Its definitely a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario, but we probably still require Hendo to play down back, especially with teams with Gorilla Power Forwards.

The backline for me is still bit of a concern for me, especially considered Jamo's history of injuries, Jaksch definitely has to played primarily as a defender, considering our lack of tall defensive options right now.

I dont understand your point , Henderson kicked 6 goals against the roos. I dont remember him saving our bacon down back while he was kicking 6 goals.
Jamieson played 20 games in 2014, played every game in 2013, missed 6 games in 2012> His recent record has been good.
Rowe hardly put a foot wrong last year.
Jaksch is still learning but more than capable on a third tall. then there is white to fill in . watson?