Analysis 2015 Forward structure

[thylacine60]

Going to be a very interesting mix of forwards in 2015.

There is a lot of mobility and power in the key posts and real class at ground level though probably not that much depth.

Henderson is a gun and I think that you're going to be very surprised by Jones. There was more to the story in 2014. He was playing 1 out as a key forward and was being ignored by the Dogs as they crabbed the ball forward from defence to then be dropped one game after kicking 4. He was more than a class above in the VFL in the 4 or 5 games I saw him play to finish the VFL season (including his total domination of our VFL team).

A mix of players like Walker, Menzel, Tutt, Thomas and maybe Judd also provides a good blend of speed and class (with decent aerial ability).

If Casboult can get his kicking sorted and/or Kreuzer can turn into a genuine force on the lead it will tie everything together nicely though I suspect that the best balance would be Kreuzer playing as number 1 ruck with Casboult providing the relief.

Going to be a few really difficult match ups if everyone can get on the park.

Now go to this 'banter' thread of ours and compare the way the nongs in there discuss each others' teams. Nice one, BV. Keep your pants on, ODN, I know they are for different purposes but the above sort of post is worth a thousand of any in 'that other place'.

 

[BrunoV]

Now go to this 'banter' thread of ours and compare the way the nongs in there discuss each others' teams. Nice one, BV. Keep your pants on, ODN, I know they are for different purposes but the above sort of post is worth a thousand of any in 'that other place'.

Cheers mate.

 

[ferrisb]

Now go to this 'banter' thread of ours and compare the way the nongs in there discuss each others' teams. Nice one, BV. Keep your pants on, ODN, I know they are for different purposes but the above sort of post is worth a thousand of any in 'that other place'.

Hats off to BV's post, but the natives on this board aren't always that civilised, let alone opposition supporters...

 

[reg_lower91]

Not sure what you mean by the bolded? Mick has backed him all the way, as evidenced by the fact that MM has picked Ellard pretty much every time he's been fit and available.

Totally agree, probably didn't articulate myself properly. What I mean is that it's be good to see him backed in by a coach and make it through a full 22 games. Only other time he's really done that was in 2011 when Ratts played him in 19 games.

 

[The Bighouse]

Totally agree, probably didn't articulate myself properly. What I mean is that it's be good to see him backed in by a coach and make it through a full 22 games. Only other time he's really done that was in 2011 when Ratts played him in 19 games.

It's his body that's hindered him more than MM's preference for him being selected.

Problematic calf and then a knee last season?

Davey just does not thrill me when selected but he has a dip hence the continual selection when fit. Looks slow, has his kicks smothered and game killing misses for goal from gettable shots. Does have a decent grab on him for his size but had the Eddie Betts complex of too many kicks going his way when it should be going to a tall instead.

Hopefully we see an initial line-up of with Ellard & Tutt in contention for the FP role as we stand:
HF: Walker - Henderson - Menzel
FF: Casboult - Jones - Tutt

Mids then need to chime in with further offensive running and hit the scoreboard whilst also rotating & resting through the forward line. Yazz, Gibbs, Murphy, Thomas, Cripps (resting CHF), Everitt, Judd, Kreuzer all need to regularly have the goals column marked while Docherty, Tuohy, Sheehan , Buckley, Simpson can attack from HB.

 

[Azul]

My feeling is that playing Walker forward makes us too tall. Yes, he plays 'short' but we don't need 5 marking targets over 187cm, particularly if Andrejs is in the 22 as a wingman.

My feeling is that White, Walker and Henderson will need to mix and match. I suspect Lachie will drop back depending on the opponent - I don't think Levi nor Liam can play defense.

Just some random names, Menzel the only permanent fixture:

(a)
Menzel Jones Henderson
Yarran Casboult Buckley

(b)
Menzel Watson Walker
Tutt Kreuzer Johnson

(c)
Menzel Henderson White
Docherty Casboult Ellard

 

[HARKER]

My feeling is that playing Walker forward makes us too tall. Yes, he plays 'short' but we don't need 5 marking targets over 187cm, particularly if Andrejs is in the 22 as a wingman.

My feeling is that White, Walker and Henderson will need to mix and match. I suspect Lachie will drop back depending on the opponent - I don't think Levi nor Liam can play defense.

Just some random names, Menzel the only permanent fixture:

(a)
Menzel Jones Henderson
Yarran Casboult Buckley

(b)
Menzel Watson Walker
Tutt Kreuzer Johnson

(c)
Menzel Henderson White
Docherty Casboult Ellard

Sounds like a great idea to me but then again there really aren't too many short forwards anyway. Even Johnson is 186cm.

I think it's whether we use 2 or 3 genuine talls forward that will have the larger influence on the forward set-ups and at this stage it certainly looks as though we'll be going 3 talls.

Menzel Henderson Thomas
Walker Casboult Jones ............................ and then the mids...........lots of mids pushing in...........Murphy, Gibbs, Judd etc.

 

[Azul]

I'm not sure why every man and his dog has Thomas playing as a HFF.

He's a midfielder.

Regaining full fitness, he'll be back to 2010 levels. In that year he managed only 18 goals but averaged 24 possessions.

 

[HARKER]

I'm not sure why every man and his dog has Thomas playing as a HFF.

He's a midfielder.

Regaining full fitness, he'll be back to 2010 levels. In that year he managed only 18 goals but averaged 24 possessions.

Midfielders have to fit somewhere around the ground and he can kick goals

Thomas doesn't really spend much time in the centre bounces though, does he?
You'll have the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Curnow, Cripps, Carrazzo, and hopefully Cripps and Whiley as the staple items.

 

[Azul]

I think it's whether we use 2 or 3 genuine talls forward that will have the larger influence on the forward set-ups and at this stage it certainly looks as though we'll be going 3 talls.

Yeah I just don't think 3 genuine talls plus Walker works.

We ranked 14th for inside 50s in 2014. I just think too many talls would be starved of opportunities.

Thomas doesn't really spend much time in the centre bounces though, does he?
You'll have the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Curnow, Cripps, Carrazzo, and hopefully Cripps and Whiley as the staple items.

You've listed a lot of inside players there. Someone has to feed the ball out to him and I think you'll see a lot of handball receives at stoppages.

 

[HARKER]

You've listed a lot of inside players there. Someone has to feed the ball out to him and I think you'll see a lot of handball receives at stoppages.

Just saying in terms of putting players in positions, as we know it doesn't really work exactly that way anyway.
There are more mids involved in the game than for the ruck division and the centre-line alone.

Yarran, Boekhorst, Docherty, Thomas, Simpson, Buckley and even Tuohy and Sheehan etc are all there ready to take the ball and run.

I guess that I look at mids that actually start in the centre bounces and I don't recall Thomas spending too much time there last year......of course that may and hopefully should change, this year

 

[SickQwon]

I'm not sure why every man and his dog has Thomas playing as a HFF.

He's a midfielder.

Regaining full fitness, he'll be back to 2010 levels. In that year he managed only 18 goals but averaged 24 possessions.

Thomas is a goal kicking midfielder. I think he's ideal for HFF, can deliver the ball inside 50 and can also sneak a few goals.
He played forward quite a bit in previous years.

 

[Azul]

Thomas is a goal kicking midfielder. I think he's ideal for HFF, can deliver the ball inside 50 and can also sneak a few goals.
He played forward quite a bit in previous years.

I just think plonking him on a HFF is a waste, given he's never kicked more than 23 goals in a season.

His real strength is outside run. You generally consign the kids without the gut-running stamina to flanker duties - e.g. Yarran, Houlihan, Betts, Lappin, Garlett.

More dangerous on the wing and in the middle, imho.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm not sure why every man and his dog has Thomas playing as a HFF.

He's a midfielder.

Regaining full fitness, he'll be back to 2010 levels. In that year he managed only 18 goals but averaged 24 possessions.

Played a blistering PF and GF.

 

[ImBlue]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your pov) Henderson has saved our bacon playing down back a few times last year (IE North Melbourne)

Its definitely a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario, but we probably still require Hendo to play down back, especially with teams with Gorilla Power Forwards.

The backline for me is still bit of a concern for me, especially considered Jamo's history of injuries, Jaksch definitely has to played primarily as a defender, considering our lack of tall defensive options right now.

I still reckon Hendo played his best football in defense. He really stepped up to the plate in 2013 in that position, so was surprised that he played predominantly forward in 2014. I know it won't happen now with the improvement in Rowe, and the recruitment of Jaksch. Still makes Jamo an important player not to get injured.

 

[ferrisb]

da ba dee da ba da, da ba dee...

Edited for musical stupidity

(bad) jokes aside, totally agree with ImBlue's post

 

[The Flying Doormat]

My feeling is that playing Walker forward makes us too tall. Yes, he plays 'short' but we don't need 5 marking targets over 187cm, particularly if Andrejs is in the 22 as a wingman....
....

'Small' forward options / possibilities ?

Menzel, Yarran, Tutt, Smith, Buckley, Ellard.

 

[Kernafides]

I'd like to see Smith, Tutt and to a lesser degree Watson (not sold on the Essendon game) actually show something at VFL/AFL level consistently before we go throwing them into starting 22 and best forward line equations.

 

[Jeremias]

Three tall forwards seems likely and is certainly my preferred structure.

Henderson will be our key forward with Jones and a resting ruck (Kreuzer/Casboult) as the support cast.

I never completely understood the rationale behind moving Walker out of the forward line after his 2011 season and I'd like to see him return there in 2015. I don't believe he can get back to that level but I have no doubt he can still provide a very solid option for us and have a real impact on the scoreboard.

Long term I see Menzel as someone who can provide class all over the ground but there's little doubt his best work is done in the forward 50 and I see him as clearly a part of our most dangerous forward structure. Very classy footballer who doesn't need much of the ball to have an enormous impact.

Having lost both Eddie and Jeffy in consecutive seasons our small forward depth has gone from a real strength to a clear weakness. We just don't have a clear cut option here but I expect Tutt to fill that role initially despite being better suited to playing further up the ground. I wouldn't completely rule out Smith from seeing senior action in that position despite not having the body for it just yet.

We do need a cohesive forward structure but as HARKER stated we need our midfield group to really step up and have a far greater impact on the scoreboard than what we've seen over the past few seasons. We cannot simply rely on our forwards to kick a winning score and need Murphy, Gibbs & Thomas in particular to lift their recent numbers considerably if we are to see significant improvement.

With Tutt likely to spend some time further up the ground we'll need those midfielders to have a real impact when rotated through the forward line rather than just being that extra body in there.

My ideal forward structure would be this

HF: Walker - Kreuzer/Casboult - Menzel
FF: Jones - Henderson - Tutt

 

[goreds]

Midfielders have to fit somewhere around the ground and he can kick goals

Thomas doesn't really spend much time in the centre bounces though, does he?
You'll have the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Curnow, Cripps, Carrazzo, and hopefully Cripps and Whiley as the staple items.

Thomas is an elite runner who pushes harder into defense than any player in the league when fit.

He is impossible to run with when fit...

 

[BrunoV]

Cannot see why you'd not want Walker forward with two key forwards and a resting ruck/third tall.

Walker is as mobile as anyone in the game so speed/ground level presence would not be a problem. He is a very difficult player to match up because he is so good overhead but I wouldn't want to lose the advantage by having him play on genuine key forwards.

 

[HARKER]

Thomas is an elite runner who pushes harder into defense than any player in the league when fit.

He is impossible to run with when fit...

Watched Thomas circa 2010-2011 and quietly said to myself.... I wish we had him.

His kicking across his body is just beautiful to watch.
Haven't seen him miss a target yet this pre-season.

 

[therubbernub]

Haven't seen him miss a target yet this pre-season.

Great to hear! How is his pace? Back to normal?

 

[HARKER]

Great to hear! How is his pace? Back to normal?

Full agility is back and his side stepping is elite.

Looking forward to full ground drills and the intra-clubs.
No doubt that Thomas will shine.

 

[therubbernub]

Full agility is back and his side stepping is elite.

Looking forward to full ground drills and the intra-clubs.
No doubt that Thomas will shine.

Dont let the doubting thomases hear you talking like that