MVP 2015 Lions Club Champion - Merrett-Murray Medal

[GingerGreatness]

One more thought-

Award for most nervous speaker of the night goes to ZOB. Amazes me that blokes can run out & play footy in front of 20k - 30k like it's nothing, but put them in a suit in front of 500 of them and they get jittery.

Well deserved by Zac though. In the headlines for the right reasons.

 

[DashinD]

Makes my heart sing to hear that D Beams spoke so passionately about the club. He's true blue - doesn't fake it on or off the field. Footy gods shone hard on us the day we got him.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Besides the four way tie, one of the strangest things to come out of the B&F count was that Adcock came in 9th. If the coaches themselves rated Adcock as our 9th best player this year, why the hell are we getting rid of him???

Yeah youth focus and look to the future - so if we have less injuries and a number of young players get better next year that means he would naturally slip down the count if we had have kept him on. But so much so that he is not seen as a top 22 player???

It just underlines to me how bizarre the decision about Adcock was - especially for a team that looks likely to continue bleeding experience. To me it seems like Leppa made the wrong call based on what he thought looked like Jed's physical ability starting to let him down, whereas I think it was more to do with playing in a new / very difficult position in a side that was mostly getting limited opportunities up forward.

Other things that were surprising were:
- how highly Christensen was rated. Yeah he was a solid contributor throughout most of the year, but not 2 votes off winning the B&F.
- Zorko - again like Christensen, was a reasonably solid year, albeit with a good finish. But his year just didn't seem in the same category of Beams, Martin or Robbo (any one of which could have won in their own right without too many people complaining).
- Paparone - was good in an under-siege defence for the first half of the year, but he seems to have well and truly been given overs.
- Rich - it wasn't his greatest year, but I am surprised he didn't get in the top ten (although I don't even know what the final positions / votes were outside of the top 10). Still there were a number of games where he was amongst our best. He actually had his 2nd most disposals on average this year at 19.43, only behind 21.7 in 2012. Although he was clearly carrying an injury most of the year (given he couldn't kick through the ball properly), but it just seems like the coaches wanted to given him a bit of a kick in the pants to try and get him to improve next year.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Let's just ignore the fact that the Lions offered him a contract earlier in the year and only said they wouldn't guarantee him games next year, so he decided to leave...

 

[Davemonkey]

Let's just ignore the fact that the Lions offered him a contract earlier in the year and only said they wouldn't guarantee him games next year, so he decided to leave...

This continues to be the point most of the emotional types are missing. This was Jed's decision based on not being guaranteed games as the younger blokes come through and an assessment of where he is at by the coaching group. He could have decided to stay and serve, running between AFL and NEAFL as needed but felt he still had years left in him. His call, totally fine, and Jed being Jed has been classy, honest and never stopped trying for the club while he served, but it was still his decision to leave.

 

[chopperduck]

Depending on where Jed ends up it could be a very good split for him. I would love to see him end up playing finals in a team like the Dogs, where his experience would be useful. Whilst he could still contribute to the team next year, i wouldn't cement him in for 22 games auto selection either.

As far as the voting goes, people have to give consideration to how it works, and compliance to the game plan is a big factor. So whilst Paps might not have had the most flashy stand out individual performances, if he was playing his role in the team very well, he will poll well. I think Zorko's last game v the Dogs is a good example. He played of HB which he doesn't normally do. He was directly responsible for at least 3 opposition goals in the first half. Despite those mistakes, he got a heap of ball and was providing a lot of rebound out of defense. If his role was to create and get the ball moving forward, and he had a licence to take risks, then i would say he did what the coaches asked of him, and he should poll well for that game (which he did), despite making some pretty bad errors.

FWIW from memory Rich/Hanley/Rocky were all just outside the 10, sitting in that 10-15 position.

 

[jackess]

Let's just ignore the fact that the Lions offered him a contract earlier in the year and only said they wouldn't guarantee him games next year, so he decided to leave...

Ignoring the fact that clearly that isn't the whole truth. If we wanted to keep him on we could have but clearly we don't want him on our list next year.

Also, had we offered him a contract?

 

[whatboutbob]

Also, had we offered him a contract?

Seriously?

 

[jackess]

Seriously?

I'm googling but all I can see is contract talks on hold until the end of the season and then Jed parting ways with the Lions.

 

[Elixuh]

I'm googling but all I can see is contract talks on hold until the end of the season and then Jed parting ways with the Lions.

He was told if he plays on he may be back and forth between seniors and reserves. So I think its safe to assume that there was a contract there for him if he wanted it, albeit one which would have to be negotiated.

EDIT: oh, had assumed jackess meant after the initial contract which we withdrew.

 

[Tairy Greene]

I'm googling but all I can see is contract talks on hold until the end of the season and then Jed parting ways with the Lions.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-18/lions-waiting-on-leuey

Schwab said the Lions were waiting to hear back from Adcock on their new contract offer.

"We're certainly talking to Jed's management so we'd hopefully get something done this year," Schwab said.

"He's got an offer so that's a good start."

Having qualified as a restricted free agent in 2012, Adcock is set to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season.

 

[whatboutbob]

I'm googling but all I can see is contract talks on hold until the end of the season and then Jed parting ways with the Lions.

Ok, I've been away for three weeks with no internet and I've barely been paying attention since I returned yet I was aware of the situation, so I'm a bit surprised. There was a northern frontier interview with Swanny where he talked about it. Yes, there was a contract offered which was later removed, then when Jed wanted to know where he was at a few weeks out from the end of the season he was told he couldn't be guaranteed a spot in the 22 next year and opted to move on.

Yes, I read that as being nudged a little, but it sounds like a mature conversation to me. There's a touch of the Power situation there, but handled a bit better. I also suspect Jed has a bit more left in the tank so hope he finds another club. I for one will actually enjoy any good games he plays next year for another team, comfortable with the decision...as opposed to the knives in the heart I feel watching Yeo tear it up.

 

[jackess]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-18/lions-waiting-on-leuey

Well that's an impressive memory but it's not as if there was a contract offer when he was told they were going to favour youth ahead of him.

I just don't buy the clubs line that he's leaving because he wasn't guaranteed a spot in the starting 22 because he could not get that guarantee at any AFL club.

 

[Elixuh]

Well that's an impressive memory but it's not as if there was a contract offer when he was told they were going to favour youth ahead of him.

I just don't buy the clubs line that he's leaving because he wasn't guaranteed a spot in the starting 22 because he could not get that guarantee at any AFL club.

I don't think it needs to turn into some kind of conspiracy. If you pursue some reasonable and basic logic, what has ultimately happened with Adcock makes sense.

 

[jackess]

I don't think it needs to turn into some kind of conspiracy. If you pursue some reasonable and basic logic, what has ultimately happened with Adcock makes sense.

This I dispute. We cry all year about lack of leadership and experience but push Jed out. We have also been hurt by excessive list turnover. He also finishes 9th in the B & F indicating he can also contribute quite well. Sure he would have finished lower if not for injuries but the fact that he is very durable is also a handy attribute.

 

[whatboutbob]

I don't think it needs to turn into some kind of conspiracy. If you pursue some reasonable and basic logic, what has ultimately happened with Adcock makes sense.

It doesn't help when one's starting point is assuming everything the club does is s**t.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Well that's an impressive memory but it's not as if there was a contract offer when he was told they were going to favour youth ahead of him.

Not really, it's been quoted that much around these parts that anyone with an average intelligence would remember it.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think the best way to use the B&F to gauge how coaches see players is to look at average votes per game.

Here's the top 10. Feel free to check my maths. I already found one bad error, which I've fixed.

1 Dayne Beams (130) 8.125
2 Stefan Martin (130) 6.5
3 Mitch Robinson (130) 6.190476
4 Dayne Zorko (130) 5.909091
5 Harris Andrews (111) 5.842105
6 Allen Christensen (128) 5.818182
7 Marco Paparone (120) 5.454545
8 Lewis Taylor (117) 5.318182
9 Justin Clarke (102) 5.1
10 Jed Adcock (103) 4.904762

In that context it's a little clearer why there might be a difference in how the club sees Adcock and how he possibly sees himself. Of the players who played 19 or more games this season, only Rich has a lower score.

Other things I note from this:

• Robinson surprisingly averaged fewer votes in the last six rounds (5.5) than in the whole season (6.2).
• There isn't really much variance in the scores. Beams stands out at 8.1, but otherwise it's mostly clustered between 5 and 7 as an average per game. I think that's a function of the system.
• Paparone's results might look strange, but if you consider he's only scoring 5.5 out of a possible 12 each week then that puts a different spin on things, I think.

EDITED: Rogue apostrophe removed.

 

[Elixuh]

This I dispute. We cry all year about lack of leadership and experience but push Jed out. We have also been hurt by excessive list turnover. He also finishes 9th in the B & F indicating he can also contribute quite well. Sure he would have finished lower if not for injuries but the fact that he is very durable is also a handy attribute.

I was one who advocated for Jed early in the year in terms of his worth as a leader and an experienced player (and there are some murmurings now that he wasn't necessarily the leadership material many thought he was)...but come end of season, for an experienced player that we should be relying on, there's only so far you can carry him if you are to effectively apply a youth policy. Had we not had the extent of injuries we did Jed would not have been in or possibly near the top 10 and may not have played as many games as he did this season in the seniors.

I think if you're keeping a player ahead of others merely because they're durable, where they're also (possibly) nearing the end of their career and likely won't be around for any possible future success, then I think as a team you're destined to tread water indefinitely.

We could have not spoken to the point that he's likely to play a bit or a lot of reserves next year, offered him a contract and let him find out when the season resumes in 2016. Then you'd probably have the same people arguing that we have pushed him out and treated him unfairly...arguing that we treated him unfairly by either not playing him or not telling him when we offered him the contract.

 

[whatboutbob]

EDIT: Whoops! Massive maths fail.

Hehe, chuck em back up when they're fixed.

As for Adcock, it'll be interesting to reassess at the end of next year to see how he's going vs whoever fills his role. Who do folks think it'll be? Sparra?

 

[jackess]

It doesn't help when one's starting point is assuming everything the club does is s**t.

Not really, it's been quoted that much around these parts that anyone with an average intelligence would remember it.

Hmmmm. Commenting on the poster and not the post. Well done guys.

 

[jackess]

I was one who advocated for Jed early in the year in terms of his worth as a leader and an experienced player (and there are some murmurings now that he wasn't necessarily the leadership material many thought he was)...but come end of season, for an experienced player that we should be relying on, there's only so far you can carry him if you are to effectively apply a youth policy. Had we not had the extent of injuries we did Jed would not have been in or possibly near the top 10 and may not have played as many games as he did this season in the seniors.

I think if you're keeping a player ahead of others merely because they're durable, where they're also (possibly) nearing the end of their career and likely won't be around for any possible future success, then I think as a team you're destined to tread water indefinitely.

We could have not spoken to the point that he's likely to play a bit or a lot of reserves next year, offered him a contract and let him find out when the season resumes in 2016. Then you'd probably have the same people arguing that we have pushed him out and treated him unfairly arguing that we treated him unfairly by either not playing him or not telling him when we offered him the contract.

If Jed would have been playing reserves for us next year we probably won't be seeing him playing much senior footy for his new team next year.

I think Jed's contribution next year will probably be greater than whoever that will replace him on our list will have over their career and Leppa will no doubt use the lack of experience and leadership excuse after several bad losses next year.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Hehe, chuck em back up when they're fixed.

As for Adcock, it'll be interesting to reassess at the end of next year to see how he's going vs whoever fills his role. Who do folks think it'll be? Sparra?

Polkinghorne.

 

[Ironmonger]

Hehe, chuck em back up when they're fixed.

As for Adcock, it'll be interesting to reassess at the end of next year to see how he's going vs whoever fills his role. Who do folks think it'll be? Sparra?

You probably saw the original post. I really should have known that Adcock couldn't possibly score that highly. A rather important mistake in the context of this discussion.

 

[Elixuh]

If Jed would have been playing reserves for us next year we probably won't be seeing him playing much senior footy for his new team next year.

I think Jed's contribution next year will probably be greater than whoever that will replace him on our list will have over their career and Leppa will no doubt use the lack of experience and leadership excuse after several bad losses next year.

That position assumes that EVERYTHING is equal between teams... that they're all carbon copies in terms of their development, strategies, personnel etc etc etc. Pretty unrealistic.