News 2015 pre-season (Training, photos etc, THREAD FINALLY CLOSED, SEE NEW PHOTOS THREAD)

Will we finally have an injury free preseason in 2015 training ?

  • YES?

    Votes: 39 22.7%
  • NO?

    Votes: 75 43.6%
  • MAYBE?

    Votes: 21 12.2%
  • 50/50?

    Votes: 16 9.3%
  • OR PHONE A FRIEND?

    Votes: 43 25.0%

  • Total voters
    172
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loki04

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Went to training this morning to watch the boys in the first session if the year. Some notes below.

Started out with a 2km time trial. Notes on the placings and some times below:

1st: Steele 5.54. Had a 60-70m lead the whole time.
2nd; Freeman 6.08. Also had a 60-70m lead from 3rd the whole time.
3rd: Mantiet 6.22. Fell straight into third from early on and held it. Was clear third for most of it, but got gobbled up towards the very end. Held off Varcoe in a sprint at the end.
4th: Varcoe 6.23.
5th: Pendles
6th: Crisp

EDIT: Suggestion Kennedy came 2nd last may have been erroneous. Certainly came in back pack, though.

Last: Grundy 7.24. A long way back.
Maynard and Goodyear were in the top half, which doesn't say much for the rest of the list (as Hine himself said Maynard isn't good aerobically..)

Other notes:
Not really much else exciting to report on - most the drills were pretty small / tight with no real opportunity to shine. As everyone says, Freeman looked really sharp - a lot of energy, really nice skills (surprisingly) and just got busy all the time. Crisp looked pretty good a lot of the session as well.

Scharenberg just ran laps, Swanny just sprinted laps, Thomas and Young mostly just ran laps, Mason Cox just ran laps for the whole session (I think he had some injury in his hand). No signs of Marsh, Moore, De Goey.

Great stuff JB awesome to read peoples first hand accounts of training! cheers bud!
 

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loki04

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Its a bit disappointing that the players who weren't at the club last year, eg. Manteit, Varcoe, Crisp are the ones doing well in the time trials. And it doesn't bode well for the rest of the group that first years like Maynard and Goodyear are able to finish in the top half.

Maybe Beams was onto something with his comments.
Maybe when the coach tells us WE have to increase our loads because we are well behind aerobically people will stop 2nd guessing him.

Not a dig at you but at a lot of Buckley bashers around all our boards re over working the players.

Due to altitude training we were no longer training for long periods I raised a concern i had a few years ago about being worried training for lesser times will slowly effect game day endurance of a 2hr game.
 

Mkcaptain

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Maybe when the coach tells us WE have to increase our loads because we are well behind aerobically people will stop 2nd guessing him.

Not a dig at you but at a lot of Buckley bashers around all our boards re over working the players.

Due to altitude training we were no longer training for long periods I raised a concern i had a few years ago about being worried training for lesser times will slowly effect game day endurance of a 2hr game.
Yeah I completely agree with you. I was going to add that it supported Bucks comment about needing to lift training loads but I couldn't remember his exact quote.
 
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Yeah I completely agree with you. I was going to add that it supported Bucks comment about needing to lift training loads but I couldn't remember his exact quote.
Exactly so lets sack bucks and the coaching staff :p The few live games I get to I've been appalled by our inability to spread when we are in possession.
 

loki04

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Kennedy was in the back pack. At one stage he was 10th last from the photos I took, but he certainly beat Witts, Sharenberg, Karnezis, Dwyer, Mason Cox and Brodie Grundy.
Good to have you posting on BF Neil hopefully you can post more often. Always enjoy your reports on Nicks too.
 

Good_Old

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Maybe when the coach tells us WE have to increase our loads because we are well behind aerobically people will stop 2nd guessing him.

Not a dig at you but at a lot of Buckley bashers around all our boards re over working the players.

Due to altitude training we were no longer training for long periods I raised a concern i had a few years ago about being worried training for lesser times will slowly effect game day endurance of a 2hr game.
#SackDaveron
 

Big Bryza

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Its a bit disappointing that the players who weren't at the club last year, eg. Manteit, Varcoe, Crisp are the ones doing well in the time trials. And it doesn't bode well for the rest of the group that first years like Maynard and Goodyear are able to finish in the top half.

Maybe Beams was onto something with his comments.
We read way too much in to time trial times. Young blokes 18-21 are best suited to long distance running (eg 2-3km time trials). It's generally when you're at the peak of your aerobic running power. I'd be more interested in the repeat sprint ability of our players.

Let's not forget AFL is more reliant on anaerobic endurance as its very stop start with maximal efforts plus numerous rests going to the bench etc. For all we know BK could be a gun with his repeat sprinting. I've never seen a player run 2km non stop on a footy field anyway.

Don't get carried away with who does what in the time trial. Steele kills it year after year, in his first year he probably won it too. He's a freak runner. He'll still have blokes hanging shit on him on here this season as well.
 

jackcass

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In the article Kennedy mentions his legs fatigued before his lungs.

Maybe he still has muscular issues, but it is a wee bit concerning coming into the 3rd season.
Or maybe it's just taking time to recondition the legs. How about people just take a deep breath and cut the kid some slack.
 

The Don

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It's illogical to get upset about a player coming last or near the back in a time trial. It's a zero sum game. Someone has to be last.
If you want an accurate reflection you need to know what time Kennedy ran compared to other clubs. Potentially his time would see him place top 5 at another club.

Also a 2km run for an AFL footballer is not a test of endurance it is actually a combination test of speed/explosiveness and endurance.
 

Big Bryza

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how does Shaz beat PK? I defended PK after his gastro time trial but being beaten by a guy who has just had knee surgery. Wow
He's 5 months post op so straight line running at a decent clip won't be an issue. Plus besides his strength work he'd be doing a lot of aerobic running. I wouldn't be getting worried if he's beating some of the boys already. Probably shows what a star he's going to be.
 

Big Bryza

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As far as Crisp placing well goes, I have a friend who played in the NEAFL with him. He was always a good runner, best in the side at the Lions (NEAFL side not sure how good he was compared to the AFL guys) - so I'm not at all surprised to see him place well here. Varcoe has come from the Cats, not surprised at all to see that he's fit.

Still giving Kennedy the benefit of the doubt. I've taken from watching his footy that he's very much a burst player. Kid has electric pace, that comes from entirely different muscle fibres and energy systems to an endurance run. I'd love to see his sprint times and even more accurately his repeat sprint times. Probably still not great compared to someone like Freeman who seems to have shown he's naturally gifted in both Speed and Endurance, but I'd be willing to bet Kenno's times are more impressive there.

For all we know he might have been given an entirely different training program over the Christmas break which trained his burst sprinting. There could be injury, sickness or a number of other things contributing, but I'm not counting him out yet. Kid needs time.
Well said mate.
 

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Trickster

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It's illogical to get upset about a player coming last or near the back in a time trial. It's a zero sum game. Someone has to be last.
If you want an accurate reflection you need to know what time Kennedy ran compared to other clubs. Potentially his time would see him place top 5 at another club.

Also a 2km run for an AFL footballer is not a test of endurance it is actually a combination test of speed/explosiveness and endurance.
In addition, it be intriguing to know where Sidebottom sits relative to those who win the trials at other games.

What also stands out (and I guess it's all relative) is that there's 14 seconds from Sidebottom to Freeman and then another 14 from Freeman to Manteit. That's nearly half a minute between 1 and 3.

Either Sidebottom is elite or we desperately need multiple players to close that gap and fast. Interesting to know what Ports figures are given they're regarded by some as being the fittest side.
 

Ricky90

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Quick question for those who are knowledgeable on the topic. Does having a slow 2k time mean you lack endurance. You may not be fast but maybe you can keep going for hours.
I have friends who run marathons as a hobby. Generally they finish somewhere between 150-200 position. Now although they may not be finishing amongst the best I wouldn't say they lacked endurance.
The 2km time trial doesn't show a lot these days - well not in the way we talk about it anyway. Each player does their initial time trial when they arrive at the club for their first day of training ever. And over the weeks/months/years they compare it to their last efforts. For all we know, Kennedy may have shaved the most seconds off his time of anyone out there today. It's got to do with your ability to gut run and push through the barriers. It shows improvement. It shouldn't have anything to do with a comparison to the other blokes out there.

As far as distance wise, well, 2km isn't far at all. It should be a healthy run, almost a sprint. I coach under 13s footy, and we do time trials like this too. I have one kid who's a long distance nationals runner, and another who's done a lot of districts carnivals for middle distance. The middle distance kid wins the time trial every time, even though he hasn't progressed as far through the representative comps as the long distance kid has. The difference between them is the middle distance kid knows the 2km race like the back of his hand, he sets out at very fast run, almost a sprint and he doesn't falter. The long distance kid isn't far behind, but his speed isn't quite like the other kids speed. He's technically a 'fitter' kid, if you're going by the old definition, and if you double the distance he'll come out on top pretty easily, but in the 2km race, it's the middle distance kid every day of the week.

With all of that said, I don't even watch those two kids anymore, I'm watching the guys in the back half, checking their times and seeing how much improvement they've made. We have some damn talented kids who are consistently running in the back half of the pack, and even if they don't improve their placing, but shave 20 seconds off their time, it really shows on game day.
 

Ricky90

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In addition, it be intriguing to know where Sidebottom sits relative to those who win the trials at other games.

What also stands out (and I guess it's all relative) is that there's 14 seconds from Sidebottom to Freeman and then another 14 from Freeman to Manteit. That's nearly half a minute between 1 and 3.

Either Sidebottom is elite or we desperately need multiple players to close that gap and fast. Interesting to know what Ports figures are given they're regarded by some as being the fittest side.
Sidebottom is absolutely elite. He would be in the top 1 per cent in the league without fail - and I don't even know for sure, I'm just guessing but I am so damn certain of it, I'd put a lot of money on it. Only Marty Clarke has come close to catching him while Sidey's been at the club. And the word on Marty when he got to the club back in 06(?) was that he's a runner, can run all day and night and then some.

Edit - and when you put it in perspective, it's quite nice to see a second and first year player within 30 seconds of him. Those guys seem to have quite a good fitness base to begin with. Will be very interested to see how their times improve over the years. Freeman might just be able to give Steele a run for his money in a couple of seasons. Hopefully they push each other in the right direction.
 

Ketchup

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Getting sick of people reading so much into time trial results.

Hope PK and BK smash it this year to prove all the keyboard coaches wrong.
I agree it's not the be all and end all.

How ever, surely it does show the "keyboard coaches" who was ranting and sacking bucks last year when everyone said Kennedy wasn't fit enough and questioning why he was only playing as a sub, that they (the coaching staff) have a point.
 

Kappa

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He's 5 months post op so straight line running at a decent clip won't be an issue. Plus besides his strength work he'd be doing a lot of aerobic running. I wouldn't be getting worried if he's beating some of the boys already. Probably shows what a star he's going to be.
And how many of those months did he spent sitting on his ass or walking around on crutches? Losing leg muscle mass and fitness

There is no way he should be beating any healthy player. Maybe the ruckmen who have to carry over 100kgs
 

FIGJAM

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Amazing how everyone gravitates to the negatives when we have report suggesting:

- Freeman fit and flying after hammy injuries and 2nd;
- Varcoe fit after extended injury concerns and almost 3rd;
- Seedsman fit and making top 8, after injury and some concerns on running ethic;
- The unfairly maligned Adams top 10;
- De Goey top 10 and looking like making early impact;
- Fasolo not missing a beat all pre-season and in the front pack;
- Maynard moving up the charts like a new Tool album;
- Scharenberg moving from mediocre jog to beating seasoned players.

Some of you could be locked in a room full of Victoria Secret models and still complain!
 

Gambit78

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And how many of those months did he spent sitting on his ass or walking around on crutches? Losing leg muscle mass and fitness

There is no way he should be beating any healthy player. Maybe the ruckmen who have to carry over 100kgs
Three weeks...at the most. Surgery is so advanced, I know of people who have walked out the hospital the next day. I was on a treadmill within the first month. And I had complications.
 

Jelly Bean

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Kirby

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The below extract from the article might have helped a bit...

Blicavs' running ability for a man who stands 198cm first caught the eye of AFL fans - and teammates, particularly after the 2km time trial that kicked off his first pre-season at Geelong. He ran a tick over 5mins 30secs and left the rest of the field for dead.
So with Sidey at 5min 54sec he would have been beaten easily by Blicavs, just like he beats the others on our list easily. It's hard to get a handle on the times the other cats players were running as all we know is that he left the rest of them for dead.
 
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So with Sidey at 5min 54sec he would have been beaten easily by Blicavs, just like he beats the others on our list easily. It's hard to get a handle on the times the other cats players were running as all we know is that he left the rest of them for dead.
The article also says Blicavs runs it slower now that his body is AFL conditioned but how much slower I don't know. He is probably number 1 in the league or close to it anyway. Steele is clearly an elite runner by AFL standards. Blicavs is a unique proposition in the AFL.

I am no fitness expert but Daniel Menzel came fourth in the Cats 2km time trial on the opening day of preseason, so those saying that players returning from injury beating uninjured players is a sign of an unfit list are probably wide of the mark.

http://m.geelongcats.com.au/news/2014-11-17/menzel-flys-on-opening-day
 

NT.Thunder

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It's sounds like it's hard to judge individual players fitness base from these time trials and other preseason training tests so I guess we wait until season proper to see how we stack up.

It also is irrelevant looking at who finish first, second, third etc if the majority of our leading players would be well back in the pack in teams like Port and Geelong. We should be judging our teams endurance, power and speed against the rest of the comp and not internally.
 
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