- Banned
- #401
Oliver is a gun and will be better than Curnow but gun forwards are rare to have and he could end up kicking heaps of goals.
Draft Review 2015 - Redo the 2015 AFL Draft
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- #402
agreed
I’d take Curnow over Oliver but that’s because it’s a lot harder to find a good key forward, and I think there is no doubt Charlie becomes the best Key Foward in the league at one point. Oliver doing amazing things, but yeah, if I’m Carlton im not changing my pick.
00Stinger
100 - 7
Curnow could become one of the best forwards in the league, however Oliver is already one of the best mids in the league.
Oliver is the better player but you can't argue with the fact that tall players nearly always get drafted first
Let this sink in. Clayton Oliver has played only 56 games and in that time has won a club b&f (with a strong chance to win another one), has won the AFLCA young player of the year, finished 7th in the AFLCA award in 2017 and sits 4th in it this year, also add to the fact he will be in the AA team this year.
Those credentials would be great for a player who has played 250 games but for a kid who has played just over 50 games that is insane
Oliver is the better player but you can't argue with the fact that tall players nearly always get drafted first
Let this sink in. Clayton Oliver has played only 56 games and in that time has won a club b&f (with a strong chance to win another one), has won the AFLCA young player of the year, finished 7th in the AFLCA award in 2017 and sits 4th in it this year, also add to the fact he will be in the AA team this year.
Those credentials would be great for a player who has played 250 games but for a kid who has played just over 50 games that is insane
Prochard123
Norm Smith Medallist
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I think Oliver is already elite, but don't think he will ever top 5 in AFL material.
He's a younger version of JPK in his prime, which is great.
Is he worth pick 1? Yes he is.
However, he just doesn't seem to absolutely crush opponents and win games single handedly the way players like:
1. Dustin Martin
2. Patrick Dangerfield
3. Nathan Fyfe
4. Lance Franklin
5. Jack Riewoldt
6. Josh Kelly
7. Robbie Gray
8. Jordan De Goey
I'm not saying De Goey is a better player than Oliver, because he is not right now. However, De Goey has single handedly won us about 5 games this year, and will end up with 15 votes from 17 games playing sometimes as midfielder, sometimes as forward.
Oliver will probably end up with 18 ish votes from 22 games.
Oliver is great at what he does, which makes him an excellent player. However, his impact on the game is limited, with him not hitting the scoreboard often and being very conservative with his disposals.
378 meters gained per game, certainly very poor.
70% DE per game despite having a shockingly low kick:handball ratio (10 kicks to 19 handballs a game), poor again.
Oliver hurts opponents indirectly by allowing for other Melbourne mids to flourish. However if you were to be a top 5 player in the comp, you need to be able to turn the tides by yourself and not rely on those around you to do well.
I think Oliver will consistently be in AA contention in years to come, but I also don't think he will be in discussion for brownlow/league MVP.
00Stinger
100 - 7
Some very strange comments there, especially considering Oliver is 6th favorite for the Brownlow this year so he is already in discussion for the Brownlow.
He is top 5 in the AFLCA award after finishing 7th last year so the coaches seem to think he is very much already in the discussion for being a top 10 player already.
All of those players bar DeGoey were not winning games off their own boot at such a young age either, these things take time
Not sure if you watched the Adelaide game from a few weeks ago where Oliver ws the main reason we won or the week before where he single handedly almost won us the game down at Geelong. The knock on him hand balling too much and being too conservative is an old outdated argument. When the chips are down two normally one of two players at Melbourne step up (Oliver and Gawn).
But that is just my opinion, which could be wrong.
MattyB_76
Club Legend
Our recruiting team copped a lot of questions for the Doedee selection. From our board and the media in general. Most expected him to go 30-40.
Most talented player in the draft. Of course, talent is only one small part of a successful career.
Prochard123
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I think the argument here is that
There're 2 players for instance: Jack Steele, Clayton Oliver, Josh Kelly, Jared Polec
Clayton and Kelly are probably similar in ability, Steele and Polec similar too.
However, the effectiveness of Kelly+Steele is SO much higher than the effectiveness of Polec+Oliver. You see alot of inside mids break out every year, just this year we have Steele, Dunkley, Yeo, Redden, Kelly, O'meara, Taranto etc. The difference between Oliver and Steele is existing but minimal, whereas difference between Gaff/Kelly with Polec is much more substantial and influential.
The argument that Oliver handballs too much has been around for awhile, but for this long there hasn't been much to suggest it's a faulty argument.
The truth is that Oliver is a highly one dimensional player, although a very good one. He's valuable at contests, but quite useless everywhere else, as supposed by his poor disposal efficiency, poor kick:handball ratio, poor meters gained.
Also, top 5 player I suggested clearly was in reference too all types of players, not just midfielders. In terms of game winning ability, I'd probaby have someone like Whitfield, Macrae, Hawkins all ahead of him. Oliver is consistently good yes, but you need more than that to be at the very top of the league.
gcsunsfc
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Too early to say for much of this class still and I know the Gold Coast is a long way away but does Brayden Fiorini get any kind of look in
Skimmed the last few pages and not seen his name mentioned once
Of course he doesn't have the runs on the board or played enough games to be considered top 10 but would say he's in the mix for top 20
Seen Sier, Redman, Darcy Tucker, Harry Marsh all mentioned at least once
From 25 games has career averages of 21.6 possessions, 5.2 marks, 3.8 tackles, kicked 11 goals and 8 GA
If he can stay fit I think he'll show what he can do.
Skimmed the last few pages and not seen his name mentioned once
Of course he doesn't have the runs on the board or played enough games to be considered top 10 but would say he's in the mix for top 20
Seen Sier, Redman, Darcy Tucker, Harry Marsh all mentioned at least once
From 25 games has career averages of 21.6 possessions, 5.2 marks, 3.8 tackles, kicked 11 goals and 8 GA
If he can stay fit I think he'll show what he can do.
HeHateMe
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Not sure, but the speed he turned around that injury is the entire reason i was so chuffed. Gun TAC, Car Crash leg injury, debuts in 1st season. He must of one hell of a tank for a 17 year old.
These days opposition teams have been able to exploit some of his mechanics, mainly his running patterns which forces him to seem like he is always under pressure.
Butron needs to badly develop a solid oppo.
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Haha! No chance! So slow
He reminds me of liam Jones. Hope for the kid he can have a career as good as jones
ManOfClay
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How in the hell does Francis compare to Liam Jones?
I’m sure if Francis makes it to 10 years in the afl system it will be as a valuable asset to his club. Not one traded to a desperate organisation for a decent pick used on a future premiership player.
And jones is quick (at least physically. He did fail play-dough at kindergarten) so you’ve already contradicted yourself with the comparison.
Dumb troll attempt
I’m sure if Francis makes it to 10 years in the afl system it will be as a valuable asset to his club. Not one traded to a desperate organisation for a decent pick used on a future premiership player.
And jones is quick (at least physically. He did fail play-dough at kindergarten) so you’ve already contradicted yourself with the comparison.
Dumb troll attempt
- Banned
- #416
Clearly you don't watch much footy!
Based on your comment that the best he could hope for is to end up similar to Liam Jones then I’d argue you’re being hypocritical.
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Lol bruh would take Aaron Francis over Hipwood
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No knock on Francis who took a few nice marks, looks an OK player but kinda amazed that he picked up a rising star gong over the weekend. Played on Caddy and Martin who combined for 8 goals and probably 5 Brownlow votes.
Tulip
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I'm trying so hard to compute this argument. Oliver averages ~30 touches a game, 11 kicks and 19 handballs. He goes at 70% and averages 378 metres gained (more than double from his BnF winning 2017). 7 clearances, 7 tackles, 5 inside 50s - all very good for an inside midfielder.
Suggesting there's any kind of comparison with Steele, who averages 250 metres gained, 3 clearances and just 8% more DE than Oliver despite his statistical inferiority is very funny.
Reverse the kicks and handballs (both average around 29 touches), and Oliver and Kelly have eerily similar stats. 70% DE, though Kelly naturally averages fewer (half) the clearances and double the goals of Oliver given where they play.
Genuinely love watching the mental gymnastics from people watching this ginger kid who used to be chubby dominating the comp. He'd be in most people's top 20 in the league, which is mad given he's in his third year.
He could honestly be Melbourne's best midfielder since the 1960s, I absolutely love having him and would be shocked if he wasn't a top five player in the league in the mould of Sam Mitchell and JPK (who lost out because of his late start). Feel free to disagree, but comparisons with Polec and Steele are hysterical.
PMBangers
@Headless approved!
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- #421
1. Clayton Oliver
2. Charlie Curnow
3. Jade Gresham
4. Tom Phillips
5. Sam menegola
6. Eric Hipwood
7. Blake Hardwick
8. Callum Mills
9. Jacob Hopper
10. Wayne Milera
Daniel Rioli, Harry Himmelberg, Tom Doedee are knocking on the door.
Revisiting this draft it's a little underwhelming considering the hype at the time
2. Charlie Curnow
3. Jade Gresham
4. Tom Phillips
5. Sam menegola
6. Eric Hipwood
7. Blake Hardwick
8. Callum Mills
9. Jacob Hopper
10. Wayne Milera
Daniel Rioli, Harry Himmelberg, Tom Doedee are knocking on the door.
Revisiting this draft it's a little underwhelming considering the hype at the time
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Thank * for Jade Gresham, probably won't be the week in week out gun like Oliver but does things not many others can, he'll be our A grader and we need to sign him for 10 years.
Last edited by a moderator:
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How did we get Tom Cole so late in that draft... A lot of crap went before him.
Go watch the replay. Dea was on Caddy/Martin for 6 of their 8 goals and 1 of Martin's goals was from the midfield. So Francis conceeded only one goal (albiet a terrible mistake to have a made.
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1. Clayton Oliver - pick 4
2. Tom Papley (rookie pick 14)
3. Sam Menegola - pick 66
4. Blake Hardwick - pick 44
5. Jade Gresham - pick 18
6. Charlie Curnow - pick 12
7. Eric Hipwood - pick 14
8. Jacob Hopper - pick 7
9. Harrison Himmelberg - pick 16
10. Ryan Burton - pick 19
11. Darcy Parish - pick 5
12. Tom Doedee - pick 17
13. Riley Bonner - pick 37
14. Tom Cole - pick 36
15. Josh Dunkley - pick 25
16. Rhys Mathieson - pick 39
17. Tom Phillips - pick 58
18. Jack Silvagni - pick 53
19. Matthew Kennedy - pick 13
20. Harry McKay - pick 10
Brayden Sier - pick 32
Bailey Williams - pick 48
Aaron Francis - pick 6
Jacob Weitering - pick 1
Josh Schache - pick 2
Callum Mills - pick 3
Wayne Milera - pick 11
Daniel Rioli - pick 15
Mitch Brown - pick 54
2. Tom Papley (rookie pick 14)
3. Sam Menegola - pick 66
4. Blake Hardwick - pick 44
5. Jade Gresham - pick 18
6. Charlie Curnow - pick 12
7. Eric Hipwood - pick 14
8. Jacob Hopper - pick 7
9. Harrison Himmelberg - pick 16
10. Ryan Burton - pick 19
11. Darcy Parish - pick 5
12. Tom Doedee - pick 17
13. Riley Bonner - pick 37
14. Tom Cole - pick 36
15. Josh Dunkley - pick 25
16. Rhys Mathieson - pick 39
17. Tom Phillips - pick 58
18. Jack Silvagni - pick 53
19. Matthew Kennedy - pick 13
20. Harry McKay - pick 10
Brayden Sier - pick 32
Bailey Williams - pick 48
Aaron Francis - pick 6
Jacob Weitering - pick 1
Josh Schache - pick 2
Callum Mills - pick 3
Wayne Milera - pick 11
Daniel Rioli - pick 15
Mitch Brown - pick 54
Last edited:
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