Draft Review 2015 - Redo the 2015 AFL Draft

[Hannabal]

Did you miss this bit?

Sier is 191cm and 88 kg his first 12 games @ 19.5 d and 10.6 cp
Oliver is 187 and 83 kg his first 13 games @ 19.2 d and 9.5 cp
Maybe we should revisit this in a years time.

These are Siers excitement stats comparing their respective first seasons with a very similar amount of games.

This is hysterical. Oliver played his first year as an 18 year old. Sier debuted in 2018 at 20. They were in the same 2015 draft.

Seeing you like stats...

Oliver had the second most contested possessions after 50 AFL games since they began keeping records. He was only 4 behind Patrick Cripps 714 to 710. No other player has reached 570 CP in their first 50 games, so these two are freaks in that regard.

Oliver is also second behind Cripps in clearances, who are the only two to have amassed more than 300 in their first 50 games.

Oliver also won a B&F in his second season playing most of the year as a 19 year old. Sier won't have that opportunity, as he didn't debut until his third year.

Oliver had "All time" ground ball, loose ball and handball records in his second season. We're talking in AFL history since records have been kept.

What really separates Oliver from other big bodied inside mids is his speed and agility (third at Draft Combine). Not to mention his insane hand-balling and very good kicking. I can already say Oliver is the best midfielder I've seen at Melbourne (since 1970). That doesn't include Flower, as wingmen were different in those days.

I'll watch Sier with interest in 2019. Assuming he gets a game.

 

[Monkey King]

Both 2015 draft and games played almost the same, so where does he eclipse him in every stat?

Is this a trick question? I’ll take a punt and say the answer is reality. Yes, it’s in reality that Oliver eclipses him in every stat. In case you lost touch with reality last season, you can find the statistical records here.

 

[Haychh]

Whatever, but when some flog wants to create his own dialogue I have the right of response.
Both 2015 draft and games played almost the same, so where does he eclipse him in every stat?

Totally fair is acknowledging calling two full preseasons is also bullshit, for a player that has had a fair injury history.
Played 18 vfl games in 2 seasons 16/17. Plus his only exposure to TAC cup system is 2 games, just school footy outside of that.

Wow. The delusion.

Pick someone else to compare your boy to. Oliver is so far above everyone else in this draft there is absolutely no argument possible

 

[markm106]

Did you miss this bit?

Sier is 191cm and 88 kg his first 12 games @ 19.5 d and 10.6 cp
Oliver is 187 and 83 kg his first 13 games @ 19.2 d and 9.5 cp
Maybe we should revisit this in a years time.

These are Siers excitement stats comparing their respective first seasons with a very similar amount of games.

I haven’t gone back and looked at the exact stat numbers for everything. But you’ve put up two stats that Sier marginally eclipses Oliver. However had two more seasons under his belt. Yes he had injuries but it’s not like he sat out two seasons. Honestly you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks Sier is more exciting then Oliver. I think Sier could be a good player but I’ll be surprised if he gets to the level Oliver is currently at.

 

[markm106]

This is hysterical. Oliver played his first year as an 18 year old. Sier debuted in 2018 at 20. They were in the same 2015 draft.

Seeing you like stats...

Oliver had the second most contested stats after 50 AFL games since they began keeping records. He was only 4 behind Patricks Cripps 714 to 710. No other player has reached 570 CP in their first 50 games, so these two are freaks in that regard.

Oliver is also second behind Cripps in clearances, who are the only two to have amassed more than 300 in their first 50 games.

Oliver also won a B&F in his second season playing most of the year as a 19 year old. Sier won't have that opportunity, as he didn't debut until his third year.

Oliver had "All time" ground ball, loose ball and handball records in his second season. We're talking in AFL history since records have been kept.

What really separates Oliver from other big bodied inside mids is his speed and agility (third at Draft Combine). Not to mention his insane hand-balling and very good kicking. I can already say Oliver is the best midfielder I've seen at Melbourne (since 1970). That doesn't include Flower, as wingmen were different in those days.

I'll watch Sier with interest in 2019. Assuming he gets a game.

Case closed.

 

[Jesslc]

I believe so

I predict he won't be as valuable as Milera but more valuable than Curnow

Honestly, terrible call.

 

[Prochard123]

This is hysterical. Oliver played his first year as an 18 year old. Sier debuted in 2018 at 20. They were in the same 2015 draft.

Seeing you like stats...

Oliver had the second most contested possessions after 50 AFL games since they began keeping records. He was only 4 behind Patrick Cripps 714 to 710. No other player has reached 570 CP in their first 50 games, so these two are freaks in that regard.

Oliver is also second behind Cripps in clearances, who are the only two to have amassed more than 300 in their first 50 games.

Oliver also won a B&F in his second season playing most of the year as a 19 year old. Sier won't have that opportunity, as he didn't debut until his third year.

Oliver had "All time" ground ball, loose ball and handball records in his second season. We're talking in AFL history since records have been kept.

What really separates Oliver from other big bodied inside mids is his speed and agility (third at Draft Combine). Not to mention his insane hand-balling and very good kicking. I can already say Oliver is the best midfielder I've seen at Melbourne (since 1970). That doesn't include Flower, as wingmen were different in those days.

I'll watch Sier with interest in 2019. Assuming he gets a game.

In terms of centre bounce attendance, I'm quite certain that Sier will be 2nd in line behind Adams and on-par with Treloar and Beams. Sier is already a more capable stoppage player than the likes of Pendles, Sidebottom who will both play outside this year.

I think there is no argument that Oliver at each stage of his career is superior to Sier, but the same could be said about 99% of the mids in AFL.

Oliver is an exceptional talent who has developed rapidly, and it's really nothing degrading about Sier for being behind Oliver.

From round 20 onwards until grand final, in a stretch of 8 games, Sier averaged:

22 possessions (12 contested)
4 clearances
4 tackles

With just 64% time on ground (due to a lack of opportunity).

Given most mids average 80-90% TOG (Oliver 83%), if we scale it to 85% TOG, we have:

29 possessions (16 contested)
5.3 clearances
5.3 tackles

Which really is exceptional given Sier is only 20.

Even in the grand final game when we got destroyed in the middle, Sier collected:

21 possessions (14 contested)
7 clearances (4th highest behind Sheed, Adams and Shuey)
4 tackles

He achieved all this with just 55% TOG! Arguably could've been the most prolific player on the ground had he just received a few more minutes in our midfield over someone likes Pendles/Treloar who were both severely hampered by injuries. But I mean you can't blame Bucks for not being brave enough to play a rookie over proven stars like Pendles/Treloar.

So you can see why Pies fans are so excited about Sier. He's no Oliver, but he's certainly better than the likes of other hyped up young inside mids like Jarrod Berry and Kyle Langford despite having far less opportunity and exposure. Sier has both of them covered in possessions per game, clearance per game, contested possession per game and inside 50 per game despite having substantially less playing time (Sier 63.8% compared to Berry/Langford 75%).

This is also why I feel the Beams inclusion was a bit dodgy. Sier could've easily become the player we recruited Beams to be simply with more time on ball. Now I'm expecting another promising but unspectacular season from Sier.

 

[Wild Bill]

In terms of centre bounce attendance, I'm quite certain that Sier will be 2nd in line behind Adams and on-par with Treloar and Beams. Sier is already a more capable stoppage player than the likes of Pendles, Sidebottom who will both play outside this year.

I think there is no argument that Oliver at each stage of his career is superior to Sier, but the same could be said about 99% of the mids in AFL.

Oliver is an exceptional talent who has developed rapidly, and it's really nothing degrading about Sier for being behind Oliver.

From round 20 onwards until grand final, in a stretch of 8 games, Sier averaged:

22 possessions (12 contested)
4 clearances
4 tackles

With just 64% time on ground (due to a lack of opportunity).

Given most mids average 80-90% TOG (Oliver 83%), if we scale it to 85% TOG, we have:

29 possessions (16 contested)
5.3 clearances
5.3 tackles

Which really is exceptional given Sier is only 20.

Even in the grand final game when we got destroyed in the middle, Sier collected:

21 possessions (14 contested)
7 clearances (4th highest behind Sheed, Adams and Shuey)
4 tackles

He achieved all this with just 55% TOG! Arguably could've been the most prolific player on the ground had he just received a few more minutes in our midfield over someone likes Pendles/Treloar who were both severely hampered by injuries. But I mean you can't blame Bucks for not being brave enough to play a rookie over proven stars like Pendles/Treloar.

So you can see why Pies fans are so excited about Sier. He's no Oliver, but he's certainly better than the likes of other hyped up young inside mids like Jarrod Berry and Kyle Langford despite having far less opportunity and exposure. Sier has both of them covered in possessions per game, clearance per game, contested possession per game and inside 50 per game despite having substantially less playing time (Sier 63.8% compared to Berry/Langford 75%).

This is also why I feel the Beams inclusion was a bit dodgy. Sier could've easily become the player we recruited Beams to be simply with more time on ball. Now I'm expecting another promising but unspectacular season from Sier.

Is it his tank or the Pies midfield depths keeping his game time down? Might be good to push Pendles forward to get more games out of him.

Langford was the 2014 draft.

 

[Ambrosia]

So you can see why Pies fans are so excited about Sier. He's no Oliver, but he's certainly better than the likes of other hyped up young inside mids like Jarrod Berry and Kyle Langford despite having far less opportunity and exposure. Sier has both of them covered in possessions per game, clearance per game, contested possession per game and inside 50 per game despite having substantially less playing time (Sier 63.8% compared to Berry/Langford 75%).

In what world Kyle Langford hyped

Berry is a year younger than Sier and doesn't have workrate issues and isn't helped out by playing in the best midfield in the comp. Don't see how anyone could say he's certainly better.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Honestly, terrible call.

More than happy to revisit this in the future at a time of your choice.

I'm very comfortable with Francis over Curnow going forward

 

[Prochard123]

In what world Kyle Langford hyped

Berry is a year younger than Sier and doesn't have workrate issues and isn't helped out by playing in the best midfield in the comp. Don't see how anyone could say he's certainly better.

Look I don't think Berry is "a year younger"... More like 2 months younger lmfao.

Sier doesn't have any noteworthy work-rate issue, if he did he wouldn't have been able to break into a midfield with Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar, Adams, Phillips and be a regular member in our midfield engine in his debut year.

If anything Sier is similar to Adams, in the sense that our other flashier mids (Treloar, pendlebury, sidebottom) play much better when these 2 big-bodied inside grunts win the ball for them.

Essendon supporters on the other redo draft thread seems to consider Langford to be exceptional for his age and exposure, I'm merely stating Sier has him well covered in just about every category.

 

[Ambrosia]

Look I don't think Berry is "a year younger"... More like 2 months younger lmfao.

Sier doesn't have any noteworthy work-rate issue, if he did he wouldn't have been able to break into a midfield with Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar, Adams, Phillips and be a regular member in our midfield engine in his debut year.

If anything Sier is similar to Adams, in the sense that our other flashier mids (Treloar, pendlebury, sidebottom) play much better when these 2 big-bodied inside grunts win the ball for them.

Essendon supporters on the other redo draft thread seems to consider Langford to be exceptional for his age and exposure, I'm merely stating Sier has him well covered in just about every category.

Look at his TOG that's not because Bucks doesn't want to play him it's the bloke refused to work in his first two years on the list as a terrible tank.

 

[Wild Bill]

In what world Kyle Langford hyped

Berry is a year younger than Sier and doesn't have workrate issues and isn't helped out by playing in the best midfield in the comp. Don't see how anyone could say he's certainly better.

Go and visit the 2014 thread. That world.

 

[LemmingMaster]

More than happy to revisit this in the future at a time of your choice.

I'm very comfortable with Francis over Curnow going forward

End of this year Francis will still not be in the same ballpark.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

End of this year Francis will still not be in the same ballpark.

Your opinion.

More than happy to revisit it in the future.

 

[Ambrosia]

Go and visit the 2014 thread. That world.

I'd say hype would mean more than just Essendon supporters were talking him up.

 

[Donakebab]

End of this year Francis will still not be in the same ballpark.

Agreed. He will be two ballparks up playing in big kids.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Your opinion.

More than happy to revisit it in the future.

Likewise, but I think you will not return to accept defeat.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Agreed. He will be two ballparks up playing in big kids.

If you had a choice now, would you honestly select Francis over Curnow?

 

[Wild Bill]

If you had a choice now, would you honestly select Francis over Curnow?

How can anyone seriously answer yes to that??

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

If you had a choice now, would you honestly select Francis over Curnow?

Absolutely.

 

[Prochard123]

How can anyone seriously answer yes to that??

Hey don't underestimate essendon supporters

 

[LemmingMaster]

Absolutely.

Interesting, we must certainly watch a different version of each player. (Even attempting to remove my Carlton bias)

 

[Monkey King]

Absolutely.

Into the Buzzasto-verse.

 

[Milanista28]

I would.

I completely acknowledge how emotional and biased my decision is however.