List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Free agency and draft rumours

Status
Not open for further replies.

MrPremiership

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Posts
6,795
Likes
11,852
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree.
I'd trade Hill for Bennell straight up, keep Suckling for extra mid-forward run.
Believe Hartung could step in and provide a lot of what Hill gives, and Hartung just strikes me as a hungrier footballer going forward and far more likely to substantially grow his game.

JMO
Hill for Bennell? Are you extracting the urine?

One is a workhorse 22 year old, reliable, 3 time premiership player. The other is 23, caught with drugs, inconsistent and was partying up the night before a Richmond medical which he subsequently missed.

No, no, no.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

killerspud

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
2,947
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree.
I'd trade Hill for Bennell straight up, keep Suckling for extra mid-forward run.
Believe Hartung could step in and provide a lot of what Hill gives, and Hartung just strikes me as a hungrier footballer going forward and far more likely to substantially grow his game.

JMO
Let me try and understand this

You would trade a 22 year old triple premiership player who knows the hawks system and has upside to get even better. A player who is super popular around the club and has a great character - for a 23 year old who has had behavioural problems, issues of substance abuse and comes from a team with no structure at all.

words. fail. me.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Posts
247
Likes
373
Location
On the way to the ground
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Derby county, Pittsburgh Pirates
I'll say it again .....
If it's our intent to not be a player in this trade period why did we refuse to tick off on some of the AFL's plans unless they brought it trading futures ......THIS YEAR. :drunk:
Hi Dasher love your posts, I was thinking (and yes it made my head hurt) maybe we may trade out a couple of players to get future draft picks in next years draft. How does this fly with you?
 

flinchfree

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Posts
2,792
Likes
5,505
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hill for Bennell? Are you extracting the urine?

One is a workhorse 22 year old, reliable, 3 time premiership player. The other is 23, caught with drugs, inconsistent and was partying up the night before a Richmond medical which he subsequently missed.

No, no, no.
Uhm, Yes.
Let me try and understand this

You would trade a 22 year old triple premiership player who knows the hawks system and has upside to get even better. A player who is super popular around the club and has a great character - for a 23 year old who has had behavioural problems, issues of substance abuse and comes from a team with no structure at all.

words. fail. me.
Let me repeat, yes.

The only thing I think you both have right are his age and the number of medals around his neck.
RELIABLE????

HOly Toledo.

That's ok, you get to have your opinion too, no matter how much your rubbish someone elses.
 

tige19

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Posts
18,196
Likes
17,035
Location
Mar-a-lago
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NUFC, Orlando, Packers, Trump
That is true. But it would shuffle the defence. Frawley to play FB. Gibbo CHB. Kurt 3rd tall
We would run the risk of having big scores kicked against us with that line up, only Chip is really elite 1v1 in the contest, the other 2 are quite poor when made accountable. We still need 2 lock down gorillas with a floater like Gibbo, I actually think Brand is a hell of a lot better prospect that Kurt.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Posts
2,818
Likes
4,552
Location
Doing 80kph in the fast lane.
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
The Boro, Knicks, Fins
Uhm, Yes.


Let me repeat, yes.

The only thing I think you both have right are his age and the number of medals around his neck.
RELIABLE????

HOly Toledo.

That's ok, you get to have your opinion too, no matter how much your rubbish someone elses.
For what it is worth, I agree with you Flinch.
Hill isn't untouchable, nobody is. Some on here get a touch sensitive about trading best 22 players, the same posters also think the hawks can trade in quality without giving up much but the time will come when a hole needs to be plugged and it will come at a cost.
Hill for mine is that type of player, good but not great, seen to be more valuable to others than his true value to us.
 

MrPremiership

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Posts
6,795
Likes
11,852
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Uhm, Yes.


Let me repeat, yes.

The only thing I think you both have right are his age and the number of medals around his neck.
RELIABLE????

HOly Toledo.

That's ok, you get to have your opinion too, no matter how much your rubbish someone elses.
Just as a reference point, Fremantle are offering their 2nd round pick (circa 35) for Harley. And you want to give up a 22y.o., 3 time premiership player.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/H/Harley_Bennell.html
Bennell averaged 22 disposals per game, as a pure mid, with all the tags going to Ablett, in a side that has won 20 games in 4 years.

Hill averaged 20 disposals this year as an outside mid, 4 inside 50s and has the highest % of efficiency with forward 50 entries (40% when the next best in the league is 23%).

I can't believe the request to trade him for a player who is arguably no better than him, not a proven player, and has so many off-field issues. Further, Bennell is asking for a larger salary than Hill is on, he isn't even a Vic boy, and we failed miserably with the Garlett experiment.
 

Prudster

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Posts
3,431
Likes
3,397
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
For what it is worth, I agree with you Flinch.
Hill isn't untouchable, nobody is. Some on here get a touch sensitive about trading best 22 players, the same posters also think the hawks can trade in quality without giving up much but the time will come when a hole needs to be plugged and it will come at a cost.
Hill for mine is that type of player, good but not great, seen to be more valuable to others than his true value to us.
I think Hill is far more valuable to us than others. He is limited as a player, but we tend to hide his weaknesses and exploit his strengths because we have a strong team around him. Other teams are unlikely to be able to utilise him as well as we do. Not to mention, a lot of our inside players are slowish, and limited on the outside, meaning he complements them in a way that makes the whole team better.

At a time when Hill will become more and more valuable (as interchanges decrease), i see no reason to trade him, especially not for a risky proposition like Bennell.
 

Jaeger

Premium Gold
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Posts
18,623
Likes
25,754
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill, Man City, WADA
I wouldn't read too much into Newbold or Fox's comments regarding cap space and all that.

After 2013 Newbold said we would be rewarding our own with the salary cap space Buddy freed up. Since then we've added McEvoy and Frawley on good money, plus JOR.

I think they just didn't want all the speculation whilst our 2015 campaign was in full flight.

Of course we'll continue to add good players to the list. These players will have to come for less than they can get elsewhere, just as most of our recruits over the last 5 years have.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

flinchfree

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Posts
2,792
Likes
5,505
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I think Hill is far more valuable to us than others. He is limited as a player, but we tend to hide his weaknesses and exploit his strengths because we have a strong team around him. Other teams are unlikely to be able to utilise him as well as we do. Not to mention, a lot of our inside players are slowish, and limited on the outside, meaning he complements them in a way that makes the whole team better.

At a time when Hill will become more and more valuable (as interchanges decrease), i see no reason to trade him, especially not for a risky proposition like Bennell.
I agree with much of what you say, I guess the 'reason' I see for trading him comes from concern about our engine room going forward - who is going to extract it, who is going to explode away from inside the congestion ala Fyfe, who is going to feed it to our outside runners.
I don't think Shiels is that player, I hope but am not sure about Langers, and Howe may be the only other player on the list with that potential under 30.
Jed for mine just doesn't have the jets.

I like our outside runners even minus Hill, in fact I think were stocked with youngish good ones, and can draft another, but guys like Bennell take an inside 5 draft pick.
I'd take the risk with his outside curriculars, especially as Hawthorn has plenty of experience with it's own over the last 35 years handling such problems. Add to that the older and indigenous heads around to continually point him in a useful direction, and I like the risk.

Hilly for me is treading water as a footballer. Rounds 13 - 20 he couldn't get near it, and when he did get it on the outside his lack of confidence led him to look decidedly ordinary with the football. He didn't exactly tear up the first half of the year either.

He's been ok since round 20, but I think with another pre-season and more games, Hartung will give every bit as much, in fact I think in a GF with Hartung instead of Hill, we are zero worse off.....again, given another 6 months for Billy to develop.

Of course I'm happy for Hill to stay, he can play, but I'd do plenty to get Harley in.
 

Brant

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Posts
11,663
Likes
14,946
Location
Padbury; WA
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal
We don't need to replace Shiels or Lewis. They will still be here in 3 years time

Brisbane won't want to pick him up via free agency because of the leunberger compo.
I didn't say we had to replace them. I asked, in the opinion of the other poster, which of Lewis, Shiels, Mitchell or Hodge wouldv'e been forced out of the 2015 by O'Rourke.
 

Prudster

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Posts
3,431
Likes
3,397
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hilly for me is treading water as a footballer. Rounds 13 - 20 he couldn't get near it, and when he did get it on the outside his lack of confidence led him to look decidedly ordinary with the football. He didn't exactly tear up the first half of the year either.
This reasoning should never be part of the discussion. The guy had a poor year, but improved in every year before this, taking huge strides in different parts of his game each year (running patterns, decision making, possession count, etc.). Perhaps he has reached his limit as a player, but don't base that off of one average year.

Hell, you even brought up a lack of confidence, which is something that can turn around very quickly.
 

gianytee

Senior List
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Posts
264
Likes
124
Location
camberwell
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Keep in mind guys Hill is the type of character clubs need to have. He is cheeky and has a laugh alot from what ive heard and the older players love it which allows a great team dynamic its the same as Smith. Billy is no where near as chatty as the other 2 but the older boys have said they love playing and training with them as it makes the up there game the way the run around the ground.

this was Hills worst year since 2013 and was still pretty good. I maintain Billy, Hill and Smith will play together next year and cause some serious havoc with there running particuarly when Smith can play Back and Billy can play forward.
 

Thaihawk

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Posts
16,054
Likes
19,418
Location
Thailand
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks.
Hill will benefit from the lessening of the interchange cap next year. He'll be able to put his endurance and speed to greater use and finding space to run into / or creating space, should be easier from here on in. Hartung and Smith in a smiliar boat, and the 3 of them in the side together should prevent Hill from being clamped down on a regular basis.
Isaac, Hill and Billy, could be a real weapon (hate the term), so bonus for us next year. We would have two of the best speedsters on the park for the whole game. As for attention that Hill gets, well Isaac had to learn to handle that a few years ago, and Billy will probably get a lot of attention next season. Frightening thought for the opposition, but we will be quicker next year.
 

kirbatron

Premiership Player
Joined
May 28, 2007
Posts
4,893
Likes
3,771
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Absolutely no way ******* way should/would we trade Hill unless Shiel or Omeara were on the way in.

Required player & even though he was down on form is needed on & off the field.
 

Hawks1523

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Posts
17,923
Likes
7,292
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Red wings, Tigers, Patriots
Uhm, Yes.


Let me repeat, yes.

The only thing I think you both have right are his age and the number of medals around his neck.
RELIABLE????

HOly Toledo.

That's ok, you get to have your opinion too, no matter how much your rubbish someone elses.
I'd trust hill to improve before I'd trust Bennell to sort himself out.
 

DannyJ

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Posts
4,290
Likes
1,012
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal
Hill stays unless he personally is the one wanting out.

Would have thought all our under 25s that are in our best 30 would be wanted and required
 

Noneedforaname

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
3,370
Likes
3,096
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree Hill is massively important to our structure. Still have seen nowhere near his best. Just had a dip with confidence this year, maybe carrying an injury as well. Who knows.

So anyhow, Hill for Bennell is a no go, but what if the deal involved, say an O'Meara? Not suggesting this would happen for a moment, but just wondering about peoples responses. Is it that we truly value Hill so highly, or are just averse to Bennell?
 

onthemoney

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Posts
2,294
Likes
2,059
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man City, Packers, Celtics, Red Sox
I agree Hill is massively important to our structure. Still have seen nowhere near his best. Just had a dip with confidence this year, maybe carrying an injury as well. Who knows.

So anyhow, Hill for Bennell is a no go, but what if the deal involved, say an O'Meara? Not suggesting this would happen for a moment, but just wondering about peoples responses. Is it that we truly value Hill so highly, or are just averse to Bennell?

That (O'Meara) is the type of deal I was thinking when I first suggested Hill shouldn't be off limits. Personally, wouldn't trade him out for Bennell but if Jaeger or Shiel were on offer and Hill was part of a deal to land one of them, I'd be ok with that. Can't see how else we get a JOM or Shiel into the club.
 

killerspud

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
2,947
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Here's where I'm glad big footy posters have no say in the running of our club.

Hill has elite endurance and has held his s**t together in three grand finals (which is incidentally how you win them)

Now the challenge should be to get him to play some other roles - like a half back runner and forward pocket - also get Cyril to give him tackling lessons.

It would be easier to do this than to bring someone who knows nothing about the club and how we play in. In time he could become a replacement for Burgoyne.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom