vast
Hall of Famer
Congrats Novak.
Well done to fed for still making finals at his age.
Well done to fed for still making finals at his age.
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2015 US Open
- Thread starter matt_897
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LukeParkerno1
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Good result, Novak deserves to get 15 Slams, just annoying he lost the French would have done the calendar.
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Djoko said to Mats Wilander after the match, "If I won the French Open this year, I don't know how well I would have done at the US Open with all the pressure on me."
Probably has a point. Has shown he's a little vulnerable in the past with all the unexpected losses in grand slam finals.
LukeParkerno1
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To a degree, but he would still be the raging hot favourite at the US Open. Actually feel he may have dropped Wimbledon. However if he won Wimbledon I would have taken the odds on Novak at the US...I'm just a little annoyed that my bet didn't come off...had Novak for a calendar think it was 40-1 from memory.
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Maester
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Tough one to watch as a Federer fan. Djokovic wasn't playing as well as he did at Wimbledon, it was a huge opportunity for Federer and he blew it. He really should have won the 3rd set. Djokovic played well on a lot of those break points, but there were a few where Federer did all the work and then just choked on what should have been the winning shot. Some of the breaks he gave away were poor too.
It's a very weak era hitting their peak at the moment (say those aged 22-26) so you'd think Djokovic will have chances to win many more slams. It's hard to see him being knocked from number 1 any time soon as well. Don't see it happening until he declines a little and someone like Coric or Kyrgios really steps up. It'll be interesting to see if he can maintain this absolute top level he's in right now in 2016. His level did drop a bit after his other stellar season in 2011.
It's a very weak era hitting their peak at the moment (say those aged 22-26) so you'd think Djokovic will have chances to win many more slams. It's hard to see him being knocked from number 1 any time soon as well. Don't see it happening until he declines a little and someone like Coric or Kyrgios really steps up. It'll be interesting to see if he can maintain this absolute top level he's in right now in 2016. His level did drop a bit after his other stellar season in 2011.
Hudu Gurusingha
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So glad to see Djokovic win. The Federer circle-jerk can stop. Djokovic is the best player in the world, and by a big margin. Its such a shame he doesnt get the recognition he deserves. So understated. He is playing at a level higher now than Federer ever played:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/djokovic-and-federer-are-vying-to-be-the-greatest-of-all-time/
And something people might not realise is that his career winning % is (slightly) higher than Federer's too.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/djokovic-and-federer-are-vying-to-be-the-greatest-of-all-time/
And something people might not realise is that his career winning % is (slightly) higher than Federer's too.
Maester
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That is very debatable and I think most tennis fans would disagree. Sport does progress over time - technology and tactics have moved on from even 10 years ago when Federer was at his most dominant. But you have to put things in context of their era and Federer dominated his generation like no one else has done whilst playing the most sublime tennis. Djokovic is amazing, but he grinds people down, he doesn't produce the same magic. I think that's why he's never received the same level of adoration. There's also an argument that he's now taking advantage of an era when Federer and Nadal are past their best and the generation coming up behind him are the weakest ever. But for most of his career he has been overshadowed by Nadal and Federer.
It's pretty amazing Federer is a clear 2nd in the world at 34, still very competitive with a 6 year younger Djokovic. Federer remains a great player but he's not the player he was. Not physically and especially not mentally.
Actually Djokovic himself is getting to about the age when most great tennis players start to decline. It happened with Federer and is happening with Nadal. Even Murray to some extent. To be so near the top at 34 is very rare. Pete Sampras retired at 32 and before that final US Open win had slipped down the rankings. Even Agassi, who is often held up for his longevity at the top played his last slam final at 34.
Not saying he can't get there but Djokovic still has a long way to go to be part of the GOAT debate. Beating a 34 year old Federer in a couple of slam finals doesn't make him the greater player.
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Everyone was saying that when Federer was 29-30.
"Oh it's amazing how Fed can do this at 29."
> "Oh it's amazing how Fed can do this at 30."
>> ""Oh it's amazing how Fed can do this at 31." etc.
News flash, Djokovic is almost that age himself. He's still dominating...
Djoko has been the best player for sometime and Federer can't beat him.
But am pretty sure Federer's best ( which is a long way behind him ) would have seen him emerge the winner more often than not against Djoko's best.
vast
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What was Federers winning percentage at age 28?
Hudu Gurusingha
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Did you read the article? He started winning slams when Nadal, Federer and Murray were at their peak, and is only 28, and moves better than any of the others ever have. Djokovic has arguably had it tougher than Federer. When Fed started, he had a declining Agassi and a sporadic Roddick for years till Nadal came along.
And Federer isnt clear 2nd. Murray is hot on his heels. The only player clear is Djokovic. He's 4000+ points ahead in number 1, and there is only 4 players who are above 4000 points on the tour.
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Maester
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I've read a million of these sorts of articles. How long have you been watching tennis? There is no way Djokovic is in the GOAT argument yet. He simply doesn't have the resume. If he wins another 5+ slams, keeps consistently making semi finals and finals and stays at number 1 for another 2 years then he'll be in it.
The thing in his favour is how bad the generation is coming up behind him. The guys who are 24-26 and who should be challenging for slams at the moment simply aren't. And the depth is not high. But Djokovic has significantly less slams than Federer did at 28. And the history of tennis suggests he will decline and his dominance will end sooner than later.
Federer actually had it tough at the very beginning of his career. He didn't mature as a player until he was 21/22, while other guys in his generation (like Roddick and particularly Hewitt) matured very early. Other guys like Safin, Nalbandian, Ferrero etc were very good players, it's just that when Federer really hit his straps he was untouchable over a period of about 4 years. But I think it would be fair to say Djokovic had the tougher rivals early in his career. That's balanced out by the fact that Federer had Nadal, Djokovic and Murray coming up behind him (and all matured very early), while Djokovic has the likes of Dimitrov and Raonic. The top 100 is the oldest it's ever been. Many of roughly Federer's era (most of whom were not top, top players 10 years ago) are killing it.
JackNah_8
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That's right, at the moment there's no one from 20-26 year age group that are winning Grand Slams. Dimitrov and Raonic haven't even progressed. Anyway, I struggle to call Novak the GOAT.
JackNah_8
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Federer's and Nadal's best would've easily beaten Novak today.
Yep agree with that.
I wouldn't say easily, that's being disrespectful to Djokovic. Also, Novak has beaten both of them when they've been playing their best tennis, but he's also had losses. They're all great players and when it's their day any of them could win against the others.
Not sure why the GOAT argument has to be brought up after every slam either. Novak is clearly not the GOAT (yet) as he hasn't won enough slams. Could very well end up as the GOAT after his career finishes though, I guess time will tell.
Novak is a long way off to be in the discussion of the goat. Yet to win a Roland garros title, 7 slams off fed, 4 off Sampras and nadal.
He is a champion and legend of the sport now though.
He is a champion and legend of the sport now though.
The tennis over the weekend was fantastic, so happy for Flavia in winning her first singles GS and the embrace at net was lovely between the two friends. As for today's mens final I thought when I got up it was a replay then I went and did something and came to the tv and saw it was live, there goes my morning whilst I sat and watched the tennis. Fed's bh let him down today at crucial times and Novak was serving clutch at the most important times. Loved the walk that Novak did for the fans. NYC love Fed and it wouldn't matter who he was playing they would cheer for him. I think the crowd at RG is worse. I have no doubt that Novak will get to 17 GS, he is averaging three GS a year so he only needs another two and half years if he stays healthy. Becker has done wonders with Novak.
What I found interesting was that both finalists mentioned the passion and love they have for the sport which probably helps them to perform and be the best they can. I don't see how someone who doesn't have the passion can get the best out of themselves. Maybe I should put this in another thread.
What I found interesting was that both finalists mentioned the passion and love they have for the sport which probably helps them to perform and be the best they can. I don't see how someone who doesn't have the passion can get the best out of themselves. Maybe I should put this in another thread.
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I just don't buy that arguement over 5 sets.
federer looked amazing bullying less talented players. His style is so elegant, looks effortless and thats the universal appeal he has generated. However his record v Novak and Nadal, shows that style cracks under extreme heat over 5 sets, especially on break points.
All three are incredible players, its the greatest generation of champions the game has seen. How people can proclaim Fed is clearly ahead is not backed up by the head to head statistics.
Agree we have a brilliant era for men's tennis and pretty hard to make this sort of call. Nonetheless I will say that Federer was past his best when Djokovic came along. Federer was playing his best tennis from about 2004 and hasn't been the same player for a long time now. But I can't see anyone beating him when he was at his peak.
Hudu Gurusingha
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Djokovic's peak now is a higher level than Federer's ever was. Its statistically proven, taking everything into account including quality of other players.
Hudu Gurusingha
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Interesting article. Djokovic only won 2 more points in the match, but was clutch in all the big moments. Federer had 23 break point oppurtunites, 11 on Djokovic's 2nd serve, and flunked all but one of them.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/djokovic-solid-performance-us-open-brain-game-2015
How many times did Federer miss an open court put away, or simple volley, or go for a low percentage down the line backhand and crash it into the net? That was the difference in the end. Mental strength and discipline. Djokovic is supreme in this regard, possibly the best of all time. Federer's shot selection and execution came undone in the crucial moments. He is mentally weaker. Same thing happened at Wimbledon. He can use his amazing skill to breeze past everyone in the early rounds, almost with a tocuh of arrogance, but when it comes to the crunch he's a level below Djokovic. 5000 ATP points to be precise.
Personally I also think Federer is holistically techincally weaker than Djokovic too, especially on the backhand side. Federer does shank a lot of balls.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/djokovic-solid-performance-us-open-brain-game-2015
How many times did Federer miss an open court put away, or simple volley, or go for a low percentage down the line backhand and crash it into the net? That was the difference in the end. Mental strength and discipline. Djokovic is supreme in this regard, possibly the best of all time. Federer's shot selection and execution came undone in the crucial moments. He is mentally weaker. Same thing happened at Wimbledon. He can use his amazing skill to breeze past everyone in the early rounds, almost with a tocuh of arrogance, but when it comes to the crunch he's a level below Djokovic. 5000 ATP points to be precise.
Personally I also think Federer is holistically techincally weaker than Djokovic too, especially on the backhand side. Federer does shank a lot of balls.
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- Oct 7, 2011
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Oh give it a break. Just how many times does one man have to prove to everyone that he's the best of the best? He's beaten both time after time after time and people still deny his quality and superiority over the other players. Mind boggling.
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