Strategy 2016 Backline

[Art Vandelay_]

If he's too anything he's too short to play in defence. Not too many at 175cm make a good fist of it.

Even Neville Jetta who's reinvigorated his career is 180cm and I thought he was on the short side for a defender.

 

[catman2006]

I would like to see Thurlow and Enright moved up the ground and Kolo has to be in the backline from R1

 

[Turbocat]

"Interesting" response to a backline question in tweet the coach this week

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2016-04-07/scott-backs-cocky-to-fire

Is playing four tall defenders sustainable over the season or will it depend on opposition ?.....

* Depend on opposition , but it also depends on how your define tall defenders. We got a good test R1 against some of the best small forwards in the comp.

* We think Jake Kolo is a very flexible player as is Harry Taylor. Henderson and Lonergan are probably more suited to talls but are not too bad on small either. If you talking genuine tall , immobile tall defenders then its unsustainable.We think those guys a little more flexible than that.

*Having said that , we have some other guys to come in and give us a bit of run and attack off HBack as well

The "how do you define tall defenders" line almost sounded like questions raised on this site.
The good test we got R1 was reasonable point , but it hasn't put the point to bed for me. In a game where our opponents only really controlled the game in a quarter I'm not sure that results was definitive.

Id agree that Kolo and Harry are flexible , but Kolo is not someone id like to see isolated too often against really nippy smalls . I rate him but I don't see him as that type of player, he is not a younger Enright. Harry as well, while flexible , id don't see them as great matches for small super agile players Im happy that Ruggles will now get a go , to perhaps let Guthrie loose a bit more. Whether Ruggles is up to it is yet to be determined but he looks a better match up.

The run off HBack is what I think we need more off. Should we really be in such need of Enright to give us that run at his age. Guthrie less focused on "man minding" gives us that run when not playing mid roles. ... but he is such an influential mid player .. I wonder if we have any other options that we could groom for the role.. or do we need to recruit. Thurlow is the one who was there till injured ..will he be at 100% next year?

The names don't instantly yell problem solved... Cowan , Bews , Menegola , Smedts , SSelwood , Murdoch , Cockatoo ... others?

Cockatoo doesn't scream someone who is in control of his own game but i do like the aggression he brings. Smedts has played there a bit without being totally convincing , Bews seems to have lost ground as a lock down but perhaps just offensive running he would be better suited but like NC5 , he is prone to heart in the mouth stuff , Scooter may give us another lockdown option but run? , Murdoch seems more natural centre/ forward , Cowan I really don't know what we have with him ...
Not having seen a heap of him...I'd like to see Menegola get a shot it when he is fit again.. Body , run , stamina ..he presents as ready to roll player if he can do the role. If he can share the role with Guthrie it gives us more run while not robbing us of Guthrie in the middle as much as we are atm.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Guthrie ain't defending in any capacity.

Round 1 begs to differ. Bitched Cyril

 

[Lana]

NSFB can you add Ruggles to the poll?

 

[Lana]

"Interesting" response to a backline question in tweet the coach this week

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2016-04-07/scott-backs-cocky-to-fire

Is playing four tall defenders sustainable over the season or will it depend on opposition ?.....

* Depend on opposition , but it also depends on how your define tall defenders. We got a good test R1 against some of the best small forwards in the comp.

* We think Jake Kolo is a very flexible player as is Harry Taylor. Henderson and Lonergan are probably more suited to talls but are not too bad on small either. If you talking genuine tall , immobile tall defenders then its unsustainable.We think those guys a little more flexible than that.

*Having said that , we have some other guys to come in and give us a bit of run and attack off HBack as well

The "how do you define tall defenders" line almost sounded like questions raised on this site.
The good test we got R1 was reasonable point , but it hasn't put the point to bed for me. In a game where our opponents only really controlled the game in a quarter I'm not sure that results was definitive.

Id agree that Kolo and Harry are flexible , but Kolo is not someone id like to see isolated too often against really nippy smalls . I rate him but I don't see him as that type of player, he is not a younger Enright. Harry as well, while flexible , id don't see them as great matches for small super agile players Im happy that Ruggles will now get a go , to perhaps let Guthrie loose a bit more. Whether Ruggles is up to it is yet to be determined but he looks a better match up.

The run off HBack is what I think we need more off. Should we really be in such need of Enright to give us that run at his age. Guthrie less focused on "man minding" gives us that run when not playing mid roles. ... but he is such an influential mid player .. I wonder if we have any other options that we could groom for the role.. or do we need to recruit. Thurlow is the one who was there till injured ..will he be at 100% next year?

The names don't instantly yell problem solved... Cowan , Bews , Menegola , Smedts , SSelwood , Murdoch , Cockatoo ... others?

Cockatoo doesn't scream someone who is in control of his own game but i do like the aggression he brings. Smedts has played there a bit without being totally convincing , Bews seems to have lost ground as a lock down but perhaps just offensive running he would be better suited but like NC5 , he is prone to heart in the mouth stuff , Scooter may give us another lockdown option but run? , Murdoch seems more natural centre/ forward , Cowan I really don't know what we have with him ...
Not having seen a heap of him...I'd like to see Menegola get a shot it when he is fit again.. Body , run , stamina ..he presents as ready to roll player if he can do the role. If he can share the role with Guthrie it gives us more run while not robbing us of Guthrie in the middle as much as we are atm.

This has been a much discussed topic, pretty sure the best 22 thread was derailed a few time with it, it all comes down to despite the KPD being flexible they are still KPDs. They can roll onto smaller forwards for a short period of time to cover rotations but if they have that match up for a whole game there is a chance that the opposition will exploit it.

The problem is as you said we don't really have an easy solution with the players we missing, we might just bite the bullet and try to held our advantage in the air and concede the ground ball to prevent conceding marks D50 and give up on fast counter attacks from D50 like we did in 2014 and just make sure we hold on to the ball when we rebound.

These things worked in round 1 against Hawthorn and failed in round 2 against GWS. IMO the effectiveness has less to do with the defensive personnel and more to do with how well our midfield is going. If we are well beaten in the middle our defense won't hold up to the extent it would have a few years ago. That was the difference for us between round 1 and round 2

 

[catempire]

These things worked in round 1 against Hawthorn and failed in round 2 against GWS. IMO the effectiveness has less to do with the defensive personnel and more to do with how well our midfield is going. If we are well beaten in the middle our defense won't hold up to the extent it would have a few years ago. That was the difference for us between round 1 and round 2

100% agree.

 

[Seeds]

Round 1 begs to differ. Bitched Cyril

Guthrie was our best mid last week after moving into the mids in the second qtr. they have bought in ruggles to take the small back pocket spot. The guthrie in defence experiment has ended.

 

[Vdubs]

Guthrie was our best mid last week after moving into the mids in the second qtr. they have bought in ruggles to take the small back pocket spot. The guthrie in defence experiment has ended.

It is an evolving story depending on opposition wouldn't you think?
Would not write off Bews either.
Guthrie could still go back- he has the best disposal

 

[Turbocat]

100% agree.

No surprise there... I think your POV has merit for sure.. win in the middle and our forwards get more chances and our defenders are less pressured...or visaversa

My issue is the advantage of having a tall player really must be in the air.. Blitz is a rare player, mostly if a shorter player cant out do the ground requirements of a taller player he has little future. If we don't intercept mark , then we are playing taller players than ideal to ensure the names get in the side somewhere. Having Blitz as an onballer probably means we could run a smaller defence letting him to help out more.

Put it this way... id assume at the end of this year Lonergan will retire... when he goes I doubt we replace him with a 197cm player.. then the year after Mackies position comes into question... he could possibly be replaced by someone who is a ute height. I dont see Mackie as someone who plays particularly tall. Admittedly , I like Enrights size, like Milburns size, even going back Hinkley size.. and their ability to play small and tall. Another guy that size with spring is preferable imo.

 

[catempire]

No surprise there... I think your POV has merit for sure.. win in the middle and our forwards get more chances and our defenders are less pressured...or visaversa

My issue is the advantage of having a tall player really must be in the air.. Blitz is a rare player, mostly if a shorter player cant out do the ground requirements of a taller player he has little future. If we don't intercept mark , then we are playing taller players than ideal to ensure the names get in the side somewhere. Having Blitz as an onballer probably means we could run a smaller defence letting him to help out more.

Put it this way... id assume at the end of this year Lonergan will retire... when he goes I doubt we replace him with a 197cm player.. then the year after Mackies position comes into question... he could possibly be replaced by someone who is a ute height. I dont see Mackie as someone who plays particularly tall. Admittedly , I like Enrights size, like Milburns size, even going back Hinkley size.. and their ability to play small and tall. Another guy that size with spring is preferable imo.

All good points TC.

I really like the last one. Ideally, Thurlow comes in in 2017 and we revert to a more traditional setup of three talls, three medium/smalls. The challenge is finding replacements for Boris and Mackie. I generally think people underestimate how good they are as great defenders who are also brilliant attackers. They don't come along too often.

 

[Lana]

Put it this way... id assume at the end of this year Lonergan will retire... when he goes I doubt we replace him with a 197cm player.. then the year after Mackies position comes into question... he could possibly be replaced by someone who is a ute height. I dont see Mackie as someone who plays particularly tall. Admittedly , I like Enrights size, like Milburns size, even going back Hinkley size.. and their ability to play small and tall. Another guy that size with spring is preferable imo.

So next year post Lonergan and Enright,

On paper I think we'd setup like this.

FB Kolodjashnij Henderson Ruggles/Bews
HB Mackie Taylor Thurlow
7th Guthrie 40% GT defense
8th Murdoch 20% GT defense

Who knows what will happen in 2 years post Mackie we'd have two post seasons to trade someone in or for someone on the inside to develop or have a draftee pull a Gregson. Maybe one of Parsons or the disappearing man Cunico could fill the role, I had hoped Cowan would be a chance but he hasn't been great so far this year.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

NSFB can you add Ruggles to the poll?

Done.

 

[Turbocat]

So next year post Lonergan and Enright,

On paper I think we'd setup like this.

FB Kolodjashnij Henderson Ruggles/Bews
HB Mackie Taylor Thurlow
7th Guthrie 40% GT defense
8th Murdoch 20% GT defense

Who knows what will happen in 2 years post Mackie we'd have two post seasons to trade someone in or for someone on the inside to develop or have a draftee pull a Gregson. Maybe one of Parsons or the disappearing man Cunico could fill the role, I had hoped Cowan would be a chance but he hasn't been great so far this year.

Cunico not great.. thats one way of saying it.. ... in general if we can get a draftee to step up it does make a big difference. whether its Cunico , Parsons or someone not currently listed. Ruggles has changed what we might be..and he would not have been in anyones 2017 side 12 months ago.

On the time post Mackie. Yes all of what you say is true.. we time and options on what to do that post Mackie ..probably I have strayed into a post 2016 area. The Thurlow one is one Im a little concerned about after our recent spate of knees... I think we should plan as if he doesn't get back to his best for 2 years , and if he does its a bonus. The two years to do something is not what Id calculated.. and perhaps a recruit at the end of this year could change it for us.

Your post side looks more balanced even with Mackie and Kolo being rel. tall

 

[Corio cat]

Cunico not great.. thats one way of saying it.. ... in general if we can get a draftee to step up it does make a big difference. whether its Cunico , Parsons or someone not currently listed. Ruggles has changed what we might be..and he would not have been in anyones 2017 side 12 months ago.

On the time post Mackie. Yes all of what you say is true.. we time and options on what to do that post Mackie ..probably I have strayed into a post 2016 area. The Thurlow one is one Im a little concerned about after our recent spate of knees... I think we should plan as if he doesn't get back to his best for 2 years , and if he does its a bonus. The two years to do something is not what Id calculated.. and perhaps a recruit at the end of this year could change it for us.

Your post side looks more balanced even with Mackie and Kolo being rel. tall

 

[GHS33]

"Interesting" response to a backline question in tweet the coach this week

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2016-04-07/scott-backs-cocky-to-fire

Is playing four tall defenders sustainable over the season or will it depend on opposition ?.....

* Depend on opposition , but it also depends on how your define tall defenders. We got a good test R1 against some of the best small forwards in the comp.

* We think Jake Kolo is a very flexible player as is Harry Taylor. Henderson and Lonergan are probably more suited to talls but are not too bad on small either. If you talking genuine tall , immobile tall defenders then its unsustainable.We think those guys a little more flexible than that.

*Having said that , we have some other guys to come in and give us a bit of run and attack off HBack as well

The "how do you define tall defenders" line almost sounded like questions raised on this site.
The good test we got R1 was reasonable point , but it hasn't put the point to bed for me. In a game where our opponents only really controlled the game in a quarter I'm not sure that results was definitive.

Id agree that Kolo and Harry are flexible , but Kolo is not someone id like to see isolated too often against really nippy smalls . I rate him but I don't see him as that type of player, he is not a younger Enright. Harry as well, while flexible , id don't see them as great matches for small super agile players Im happy that Ruggles will now get a go , to perhaps let Guthrie loose a bit more. Whether Ruggles is up to it is yet to be determined but he looks a better match up.

The run off HBack is what I think we need more off. Should we really be in such need of Enright to give us that run at his age. Guthrie less focused on "man minding" gives us that run when not playing mid roles. ... but he is such an influential mid player .. I wonder if we have any other options that we could groom for the role.. or do we need to recruit. Thurlow is the one who was there till injured ..will he be at 100% next year?

The names don't instantly yell problem solved... Cowan , Bews , Menegola , Smedts , SSelwood , Murdoch , Cockatoo ... others?

Cockatoo doesn't scream someone who is in control of his own game but i do like the aggression he brings. Smedts has played there a bit without being totally convincing , Bews seems to have lost ground as a lock down but perhaps just offensive running he would be better suited but like NC5 , he is prone to heart in the mouth stuff , Scooter may give us another lockdown option but run? , Murdoch seems more natural centre/ forward , Cowan I really don't know what we have with him ...
Not having seen a heap of him...I'd like to see Menegola get a shot it when he is fit again.. Body , run , stamina ..he presents as ready to roll player if he can do the role. If he can share the role with Guthrie it gives us more run while not robbing us of Guthrie in the middle as much as we are atm.

I wasn't rapt with that response from CS. From the perspective of individual match-ups yes, players like Kolo and Henderson can match-up on smalls but we all know that defence in the modern game isn't strictly 1-on-1. Playing Lonergan, Taylor, Kolo and Henderson all in the back six at once makes the sum of the backline simply too slow and immobile. We need at least three guys back there to keep the pressure on and provide run from the back half.

 

[Lana]

Cunico not great.. thats one way of saying it.. ... in general if we can get a draftee to step up it does make a big difference. whether its Cunico , Parsons or someone not currently listed. Ruggles has changed what we might be..and he would not have been in anyones 2017 side 12 months ago.

On the time post Mackie. Yes all of what you say is true.. we time and options on what to do that post Mackie ..probably I have strayed into a post 2016 area. The Thurlow one is one Im a little concerned about after our recent spate of knees... I think we should plan as if he doesn't get back to his best for 2 years , and if he does its a bonus. The two years to do something is not what Id calculated.. and perhaps a recruit at the end of this year could change it for us.

Your post side looks more balanced even with Mackie and Kolo being rel. tall

It should look balanced, it's more or less the same structure we had post Milburn until this year, I don't consider Mackie a tall, if he was 10cm shorter his game wouldn't change one bit, what he does and the type of players he lines up against.

 

[Hamingja]

I think ideally you don't play the 4 down back and the coach makes the tough decision on one of Lonergan, Henderson or Kolo.

The ideally part though involves finding a capable small/mid defender that could do the job better than Kolo, when there probably isn't one available.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Thoughts on the backline tonight The Sim Dog

 

[The Casey Cat]

Thoughts on the backline tonight The Sim Dog

Good one. Better to stir and pot fellow fans who raised some concerns during the week than enjoy the win.

They did well. Let's be honest the Dogs were utterly horrible though. And that didn't happen by accident either. Is a credit to us. Not sure I've seen us tackle better for some time. Was 15-2 not even half way through the first.

I still think we are slightly more vulnerable than need to be and it could be exposed but I'll be more than happy if our midfield continues to trounce/thrott;e sides and it isn't. All I want is Kolo (I do like him) out for another runner or perhaps Bews if opposition have a number of damaging forwards. Think that still leaves us plenty strong in the air and is a fair chance of happening once Cockatoo returns but we will have to wait and see.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Good one. Better to stir and pot fellow fans who raised some concerns during the week than enjoy the win.

They did well. Let's be honest the Dogs were utterly horrible though. And that didn't happen by accident either. Is a credit to us. Not sure I've seen us tackle better for some time. Was 15-2 not even half way through the first.

I still think we are slightly more vulnerable than need to be and it could be exposed but I'll be more than happy if our midfield continues to trounce/thrott;e sides and it isn't. All I want is Kolo (I do like him) out for another runner or perhaps Bews if opposition have a number of damaging forwards. Think that still leaves us plenty strong in the air and is a fair chance of happening once Cockatoo returns but we will have to wait and see.

Fair enough. I didn't intend it as a potshot. Genuinely interested in the contrary view.

Don't think Bews is playing well enough atm and only Lang and Menegola are fit as runners. I guess we'll see how they play tomorrow.

 

[dazbroncos]

2 words

MATTHEW SCARLETT.

End of thread.

GO Catters

 

[Catgirl]

Think Kolo did some impressive things, deserves to keep his spot

 

[Catdog]

Think Kolo did some impressive things, deserves to keep his spot

plus 1.

Really starting to feel more comfortable in the back line now, keep pumping games into the lad lot to like.

 

[catempire]

I'm banking on:

- Taylor's presence. But I hope Henderson's inclusion will free him up to play a more attacking role.

- Henderson's presence. We didn't recruit a 26 year old key defender to see him do any role other than that.

- Mackie and Boris's presence, subject to 2015 form holding up. Reports of their demise are being greatly exaggerated on exposed form.

That leaves Lonergan, Kolo, Thurlow and Bews vying for the last two spots, assuming a running type from elsewhere plays as the spare/7th.

Yep.