2016 Draft discussion

Len S

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I have no issue with the Riverina as a whole, as you say areas like Wagga weren't producing much for years. But I'm not sure the Giants should have access to players from border towns like Albury, Finley etc, that are in NSW, but whose footy clubs are under the AFL Victoria umbrella (from my understanding). I'm not sure exactly how all the TAC cup zones and things work, but wouldn't the youngsters from those places have access to development through that program already? I'm happy to be corrected on that by the way.
Riverina has always been great Aussie Rules......Danihers,Carey, a certain Swans captain.
 

ManeMan

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Also Tom Hawkins, Cam Mooney, Luke Breust, Shane Crawford, Leo Barry.
 

L Dizz

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Riverina has always been great Aussie Rules......Danihers,Carey, a certain Swans captain.
Yeah, I know that. But I'm saying some parts of Riverina are part of AFL Victoria, and some aren't. The parts that aren't I don't have a huge problem with being in the Giants zone (just my opinion), because they've been ignored for a long time.

It's the places that have footy clubs that play in the country Victorian leagues that I think could maybe be removed from the Giants academy and integrated into the TAC cup program (if they aren't already). That alone will probably remove a decent chunk of the draftable players that the Giants have primary access to, and make them more inline with the other academies.
 

L Dizz

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Also Tom Hawkins, Cam Mooney, Luke Breust, Shane Crawford, Leo Barry.
This is the point I was making. Leo Barry, Shane Crawford, and Tom Hawkins all came from Riverina towns just over the border in New South Wales that play in Victorian leagues, and therefore (imo) are really products of Victorian football. Those are the types that I think it's unfair they get access to.
 

ManeMan

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This is the point I was making. Leo Barry, Shane Crawford, and Tom Hawkins all came from Riverina towns just over the border in New South Wales that play in Victorian leagues, and therefore (imo) are really products of Victorian football. Those are the types that I think it's unfair they get access to.

Yep. I agree.
 
Except how many of them came about in the last 20 years. It has a great history, but it's like saying Queensland is an AFL powerhouse because of Voss and Aker and Charman, etc. The Riverina was dead as an AFL zone until GWS got in there. Now the talent is coming out but it wasn't before - hmmm I wonder if there could be a link there.
 

L Dizz

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Except how many of them came about in the last 20 years. It has a great history, but it's like saying Queensland is an AFL powerhouse because of Voss and Aker and Charman, etc. The Riverina was dead as an AFL zone until GWS got in there. Now the talent is coming out but it wasn't before - hmmm I wonder if there could be a link there.
That's what I was asking? Are kids from places like Albury, Deniliquin, Finley, places that play in Victorian leagues, eligible to be in the Murray Bushrangers (or some other TAC cup team) zone? If they aren't, no worries. But if they are, they would have been developed anyway wouldn't they? The ones from further up in the Riverina (Wagga etc), I'm with you, it was the Giants hard work that is making more of them draftable, and well done.
 

Carlos Danger

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Have seen scrimshaw compared to oth Birchall and Bont. Shifter Sheehan compared him to Bont today though (although he suffers from optimism bias)

Wallace suggested we oick Bowes at pick 2 with potential to grab a Queenslander the attraction. Expected if we did gcs would still match.

Wallace also had 3 key defenders in the 12-20 on the draft. Think we wouldn't go astray moving into that part of the drafttoget one.

Also gws should just have the Riverina cut from their academy are to fix this issu. Has always been a footy area way to strong.
We definately shouldnt bid on bowes
1 hes not the 2nd best player in the draft
2. And more importantly we shouldnt start a war with GC in trying to pinch their academy players just might hurt us in the future when they want revenge
 
That's what I was asking?

The only question I can find from you is whether the kids have access to the TAC Cup or not, not about how many kids the area were actually producing recently.

Are kids from places like Albury, Deniliquin, Finley, places that play in Victorian leagues, eligible to be in the Murray Bushrangers (or some other TAC cup team) zone? If they aren't, no worries. But if they are, they would have been developed anyway wouldn't they? The ones from further up in the Riverina (Wagga etc), I'm with you, it was the Giants hard work that is making more of them draftable, and well done.

They are eligible for the TAC Cup teams, but you're replying to my point - that those kids who supposedly have access to the Victorian leagues and hence being developed anyway... apparently weren't. The only non-rookies out of the Riverina, including the border towns, in the last 20 years or so were those who moved into Vic proper to show their stuff - Hawkins and Smith and potentially others.

Now the Giants go in and there's three decent kids coming out a year, it's back to being a "historic AFL area" despite the complete lack of talent coming out of the area previously. I find the argument laughable as it's now only being made because the Giants were successful in developing the kids out there. If someone wants to make a balance argument, that's one thing (I think the current situation is probably unsustainable on that level), but saying "oh the area always produced talent" because it did 20 years ago is simply false. The area had stopped producing talent long ago.

Might as well strip the Gold Coast from the Suns' academy because it's been a historic AFL area under the same theory... except the Gold Coast has produced more and better talent more recently.
 

Fitzroy bears

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Excuse my lack of knowledge on the young kids, but how is mcgrath pace and outside separation, can he break lines forward of center? Same with McCluggae.
 

L Dizz

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The only question I can find from you is whether the kids have access to the TAC Cup or not, not about how many kids the area were actually producing recently.



They are eligible for the TAC Cup teams, but you're replying to my point - that those kids who supposedly have access to the Victorian leagues and hence being developed anyway... apparently weren't. The only non-rookies out of the Riverina, including the border towns, in the last 20 years or so were those who moved into Vic proper to show their stuff - Hawkins and Smith and potentially others.

Now the Giants go in and there's three decent kids coming out a year, it's back to being a "historic AFL area" despite the complete lack of talent coming out of the area previously. I find the argument laughable as it's now only being made because the Giants were successful in developing the kids out there. If someone wants to make a balance argument, that's one thing (I think the current situation is probably unsustainable on that level), but saying "oh the area always produced talent" because it did 20 years ago is simply false. The area had stopped producing talent long ago.

Might as well strip the Gold Coast from the Suns' academy because it's been a historic AFL area under the same theory... except the Gold Coast has produced more and better talent more recently.
Thanks for that, I did say I was happy to be corrected, and I knew you'd have a good understanding of it all. That answers what I was trying to find out about the border towns and who has has control of their junior development in the past. And now that you've cleared it up, I agree with most of what you say.

So if kids from the border towns were able to be part of the Victorian development programs in the past, the real question that everyone should be asking is "if the areas that were the responsibility of AFL Victoria and the TAC couldn't produce much talent, why are the Giants able to?"

If AFL Victoria had done a decent job in the first place, and regular talent had been coming out of there, those areas would probably never have been given to the Giants in the first place. For all the AFL's talk about helping grass roots footy, it really highlights the flaws in whatever they're currently doing, and you have to wonder how much talent is in other regional areas of Australia that is being ignored.

Although if the sheer number of players produced by the GWS academies continues, I feel they probably do have to remove some of those areas and give them back to AFL Victoria to look after. Perhaps they could hire some Giants development officers to do it properly this time!
 
Thanks for that, I did say I was happy to be corrected, and I knew you'd have a good understanding of it all. That answers what I was trying to find out about the border towns and who has has control of their junior development in the past. And now that you've cleared it up, I agree with most of what you say.

So if kids from the border towns were able to be part of the Victorian development programs in the past, the real question that everyone should be asking is "if the areas that were the responsibility of AFL Victoria and the TAC couldn't produce much talent, why are the Giants able to?"

The problem is that AFL Victoria doesn't really have any incentive to dig deep to find these kids AFAIK. The Giants and the other academy clubs have a direct benefit tied to development of AFL quality players. AFL Victoria doesn't. It was the same problem when the AFL was running the juniors up in the rest of NSW and Qld.

The Giants go into these communities and identify players like Hopper who, once they've been spotted at 12 or 13, become juicy targets for Victorian private schools who offer them scholarships and bring them into the full TAC Cup system. They also pick out kids like Kennedy who would've been happy playing in his local league with his brothers if the Giants hadn't tabbed him as someone they'd like in their academy relatively late in the piece. They put the money, time and effort into it precisely because they get a direct reward - recruiting these kids directly.

If AFL Victoria had done a decent job in the first place, and regular talent had been coming out of there, those areas would probably never have been given to the Giants in the first place. For all the AFL's talk about helping grass roots footy, it really highlights the flaws in whatever they're currently doing, and you have to wonder how much talent is in other regional areas of Australia that is being ignored.

Agreed. And the other regional areas is why the academies for the Victorian, SA and WA teams comes in, as I understand it.

Although if the sheer number of players produced by the GWS academies continues, I feel they probably do have to remove some of those areas and give them back to AFL Victoria to look after. Perhaps they could hire some Giants development officers to do it properly this time!

That's the problem. The argument that the area always produced talent is wrong. But it is unbalanced at the moment. I have a feeling we'll see more tweaking of the zone in the future, but unfortunately it'll probably just revert those areas back to being underserved by AFL Victoria.
 

briztoon

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Excuse my lack of knowledge on the young kids, but how is mcgrath pace and outside separation, can he break lines forward of center? Same with McCluggae.
If you go back a couple pages you'll find the answer. The words most often used to describe McGrath are "freak athlete".
 

L Dizz

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The problem is that AFL Victoria doesn't really have any incentive to dig deep to find these kids AFAIK. The Giants and the other academy clubs have a direct benefit tied to development of AFL quality players. AFL Victoria doesn't. It was the same problem when the AFL was running the juniors up in the rest of NSW and Qld.

It sounds like the AFL themselves should pour the money into development officers and have them working for them directly. Rather than giving the money to the state leagues, who probably redistribute it elsewhere, leaving little for development because, as you say, there's nothing much in it for them. Although I'm sure it's much more complicated than that.
 
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Excuse my lack of knowledge on the young kids, but how is mcgrath pace and outside separation, can he break lines forward of center? Same with McCluggae.

McGrath was the U17 National Champion in the 400m hurdles (or something like that) before focusing more on footy. He definitely shows that pace when he plays.
 

AFLQLD

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pOleK

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Watching that Bulldogs V Giants match, if McGrath was to become anything like Jason Johannisen I would be thrilled. If McGrath can use his breakneck speed to break through lines and stand up when the going gets tough I think we could be on to a real winner.
 
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