2016 Draft discussion

[iBeng]

Schade, 23, really struggled in 2016 after a breakout season last year. He played 15 games as a key defender in 2015, his fourth season on the list. But he managed just five games this season.

 

[SizeMatters]

Schade, 23, really struggled in 2016 after a breakout season last year. He played 15 games as a key defender in 2015, his fourth season on the list. But he managed just five games this season.

Looked pretty good in his first few games playing as a skinny key defender. Has one of those body types that will take 6+ years to get AFL ready. I hope he gets another chance and put on the body builder diet.

 

[Milux]

You're on the same page as me.

FWIW , Knighmare has him going at 18

Not overly sure on the ins and outs of this years draft but i would take him for sure. Ball winner with leadership abilities. Could imagine him and Mathieson being our contested beasts when rockliff and beams retire.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Guessing there would be a few delistings that will be rookied by their clubs.

 

[LongLion]

Hawthorn have delisted 8 players and from my reckoning they only have 4 draft picks from 88 onwards. Looks like 4 new rookie picks and 4 very late picks. Banking a lot on their 2 new star recruits or am I missing something?

 

[L Dizz]

Hawthorn have delisted 8 players and from my reckoning they only have 4 draft picks from 88 onwards. Looks like 4 new rookie picks and 4 very late picks. Banking a lot on their 2 new star recruits or am I missing something?

You're missing Vickery.....

 

[Nick Lions]

No idea what Hawthorn are doing. Very odd trade/free agency period. Surely a player like Woodward would have been worth persisting with over a rookie or very late draft pick.

 

[Crusha]

thanks Crusha, impressed that you had Aish as a "DO NOT WANT" pre draft, with those Nostradamus like qualities in mind would be interested in who you would like us to take and are likely to be available with our 4 picks.

This year I haven't seen any “live” games (usually get to all the QLD home games – vs Champs teams, vs TAC etc), but have viewed the televised games, and games from other sources (eg Youtube, AFL.com).
I don't profess to know what the other Club's want/need, so for the purpose of answering your request I will base my assumptions on the recently posted “Knightmare Phantom”.

Off the top of my head, here goes:

Given the “Macs” went at 1 & 2, I would have no issue with taking Ainsworth at Pick 3.
He is the consensus pick here, and for me there is enough risk/reward to do likewise. He fills an immediate need with the departure of Green, and although unproven, is likely to become a considerable upgrade. He has clearly demonstrated ability in the Small forward role, and has shown enough when going into the midfield to suggest he could become an option there in the future (certainly more so than Green did, hence my upgrade evaluation).
The knocks on him (in some quarters) were Height and Tank. In our case especially, height is no concern, we don't get shorter by bringing him in – Out Green - In Ainsworth maintains the status quo. And as far as tank is concerned, he demonstrated at the Combine that he has made improvement in this regard, and one could expect that would continue once in an AFL full time environment.

My (Knightmare)Pick 3: Ben AINSWORTH

Having taken best available at 3, I would be looking for needs/specific skill sets for the next picks (but mindful that if someone I rate more highly manages to slip through, I would go with “best”).
In my minds eye, like everyone else, I am looking for high level skill (be that foot, hand, game sense, contested ball – preferably all), positional needs/team balance, and speed.
As you would expect some I quite fancy have already gone by pick 16.
Knightmare has us taking Witherden here. I have to admit that Witherden's “write ups” are very appealing, but I have seen very little of him in action (and he was not one that I “banked” from his under-age year – unlike Ainsworth, Simpkin, Rotham, Berry and the SP's) so I can't nominate him here.
I favour using this pick to bolster our midfield (required if we are building for our next premiership), and would take a player I really like and I don't expect be available at our next pick.
He caught my eye with his work in the trenches, and what I perceived as “elite” delivery by hand in tight situations (something the Bulldogs showed can come in handy). There has been comment about his foot skills, but I did not perceive a noticeable deficiency in comparison to the rest of his draft group, which is the only comparison that is relevant.

My (Knightmare) Pick 16: Dylan CLARKE


I believe we have a need for an additional tall defender at one of the next brace of picks. We cannot assume that Skinner will automatically get back on deck, let alone become the key defender we require. And I am not as buoyant as most about Watson, not in the main draft anyway (perhaps as a Rookie, maybe).
I am also looking here for someone who can run out/distribute from half back, or someone who can inject some pace into the line up, and/or another skillful midfielder.
Witherden may fit the bill for one of these picks (if still available), but again I haven't considered him for the reason stated above.
The two defenders I like here are Rotham and (Brennan) Cox.
Rotham is not really tall defender size but makes up for that with good anticipation, good leap and great closing speed. He probably never becomes that (tall) player I was targeting, but to me he has some real upside, with his speed and athleticism very inviting attributes, that lend to potential role flexibility.
Cox is your mainstay tall defender type. I thought he did quite well in one on one situations, and given that I believe he has not been “that long in the game” (from a Basketball background, if memory serves me correct), there would appear to likewise be potential for greater development than others.
For our other needs I have some in contention here that have been mentioned regularly (Powell-Pepper, Gallucci, Bolten and Scharenberg), and some that are relatively unheralded (Fisher, Lyons and Williams).
Bolten I rule out because we have already taken a small forward, likewise Scharenberg & Gallucci , because I am not completely sold on either. Powell-Pepper tempts me, as does Fisher. Normally, I end up with one least fancied player that I can't so no to – this year I have two – Lyons & Williams.
Lyons really stood out for me with his accuracy by foot (rarely missing a target) and his game sense/awareness. He was not a prolific possession getter (stats may prove me wrong – I haven't checked) but it was all quality from my view, and really caught my eye.
Williams “blew me away” with his pace, coming off half back. He reminded me of what we hope Reuben may become (still a long way to go there). His involvements, although again not as prolific as others, oozed AFL potential for “difference maker” and I was/am “sold”. He is a member of the Gold Coast Academy, and as such subject to them matching a selection here. But I am hoping early selections and bids on Bowes and Scheer may stretch their points out of his reach/want (or that they don't have any selections left – don't know, haven't checked their list situation).
There are a couple of players Knightmare has going between our 16 and here that I would seriously consider if they slipped on the night; they being Berry, Haywood, and possibly Ridley (another unfashionable that caught my eye), but they haven't in this exercise.

My (Knightmare) Pick 21: Josh WILLIAMS (Jake Rotham if GC match)

My (Knightmare) Pick 22: Corey LYONS


Sorry for the ramble …....just my “Mug's two bobs worth”, written as it rolled off the tongue so to speak …....haven't checked the grammar either (shoot me if you like).

 

[M Malice]

great write up Crusha, appreciate the detailed reply, thank you.

 

[Milux]

Just watched berry's highlights. He is huge. At 18. HUGE. Runs like danger and fyfe. Surely he is needed. Would love him to slip to 21. But would take at 16 if he is still there.

 

[pulpdriver]

Just watched berry's highlights. He is huge. At 18. HUGE. Runs like danger and fyfe. Surely he is needed. Would love him to slip to 21. But would take at 16 if he is still there.

Absolute gem. Hasn't quite pushed on this year like he seemed he would at the Champs last year but gonna put that down to these reputed injury issues people spoke of with him. I also think the talk about his kicking being iffy isn't justified (but that's based on limited vision). Also supposed to be a top notch personality and leader which is exactly the kind of type we need to include while we build and refine our next finals list. perfect fit for us; really want him on our list.

 

[M Malice]

couldn't agree more Milux and pulp, unfortunately i think Jarrod Berry will be gone before our pick 16, although if he is still available and we go for someone else, Schwab and co must really rate them and i will back their judgement.

 

[SizeMatters]

I still want Battle. Groom him to be our Tom Lynch the Crows variety. He will be a gun.

 

[pulpdriver]

couldn't agree more Milux and pulp, unfortunately i think Jarrod Berry will be gone before our pick 16, although if he is still available and we go for someone else, Schwab and co must really rate them and i will back their judgement.

Possibly right. Last year and the glimpses this year, those combine results and the interviews there probably pushed him up again but still think we have a chance. He's my hope for 16 or if we're extremely lucky our third pick.

 

[lionshine]

Possibly right. Last year and the glimpses this year, those combine results and the interviews there probably pushed him up again but still think we have a chance. He's my hope for 16 or if we're extremely lucky our third pick.

Yeah we could do worse than to have an Ainsworth and Berry combo with picks 3 and 16. Henriksen has worked with both as well. Witherden is someone I'd really like to add to our list as well. A classy ball user with the ability to play off the back flank but move into the midfield longer term would be very handy and address a need.

 

[pulpdriver]

Yeah we could do worse than to have an Ainsworth and Berry combo with picks 3 and 16. Henriksen has worked with both as well. Witherden is someone I'd really like to add to our list as well. A classy ball user with the ability to play off the back flank but move into the midfield longer term would be very handy and address a need.

Those 3 along with Dylan Clarke from that last early pick, Allison the icing on the cake and Watson free at the end of the draft and straight to our rookie list is my wish list.

 

[lionshine]

Those 3 along with Dylan Clarke from that last early pick, Allison the icing on the cake and Watson free at the end of the draft and straight to our rookie list is my wish list.

Would be a great haul but I think this draft is so even that which ever players fall at our picks we'll walk away feeling like we had a great "haul". I wouldn't mind looking at someone with some pace and x factor at pick 23 such as Bolton or Cedric Cox just to try and add a point of difference to our team. Dylan Clarke and Shai Bolton at picks 21 and 22 would be nice as I think those two would compliment each other well as they are basically polar opposites. Clarke is that inside, contested ball winning midfielder dishing it out to the outside types such as Bolton who is super quick and has that bit of x factor that can help turn a game in his team's favour. I just feel like Shai Bolton's pace would add such a difference to our side. I think we should go for one of McCluggage/McGrath/Ainsworth at pick 3 and than aim for a half back flanker, an inside midfielder and an outside midfielder at picks 16, 21 and 22.

Half back flanker options: Berry/Witherden/CCox

Inside midfielder options: Clarke/Drew/Atley

Outside midfielder options: Bolton/Simpkin/Venables

And then you have the inside/outside midfielders like Florent and SPP who we couldn't go wrong with either. I wouldn't be surprised if the recruiters are seriously considering a smokey or two e.g. Tom Doedee last year with our picks in the 16-22 range that would probably send the board into a meltdown but I personally love those sorts of picks!

 

[pulpdriver]

Would be a great haul but I think this draft is so even that which ever players fall at our picks we'll walk away feeling like we had a great "haul". I wouldn't mind looking at someone with some pace and x factor at pick 23 such as Bolton or Cedric Cox just to try and add a point of difference to our team. Dylan Clarke and Shai Bolton at picks 21 and 22 would be nice as I think those two would compliment each other well as they are basically polar opposites. Clarke is that inside, contested ball winning midfielder dishing it out to the outside types such as Bolton who is super quick and has that bit of x factor that can help turn a game in his team's favour. I just feel like Shai Bolton's pace would add such a difference to our side. I think we should go for one of McCluggage/McGrath/Ainsworth at pick 3 and than aim for a half back flanker, an inside midfielder and an outside midfielder at picks 16, 21 and 22.

Half back flanker options: Berry/Witherden/CCox

Inside midfielder options: Clarke/Drew/Atley

Outside midfielder options: Bolton/Simpkin/Venables

And then you have the inside/outside midfielders like Florent and SPP who we couldn't go wrong with either. I wouldn't be surprised if the recruiters are seriously considering a smokey or two e.g. Tom Doedee last year with our picks in the 16-22 range that would probably send the board into a meltdown but I personally love those sorts of picks!

All do seem like good options for us and I certainly wouldn't mind us loading up on speed and skill this draft. Bolton certainly did look electrifying that first half of the all-stars match and I thought he'd be a good fit but I'd be kinda hesitant with two sub 180cm taken with top 4 20 picks. I know both he and Ainsworth do have great leaps and that pace and attacking instincts they bring would be great but both might just push us over the precipice of too many short players, if we expect them to feature in our next finals side. Assuming it contains Zorko, Bundy, Taylor, Ainsworth and Bolton it does make for a pretty short 22. Don't want to be the Brisbane shortasses.

 

[lionshine]

All do seem like good options for us and I certainly wouldn't mind us loading up on speed and skill this draft. Bolton certainly did look electrifying that first half of the all-stars match and I thought he'd be a good fit but I'd be kinda hesitant with two sub 180cm taken with top 4 20 picks. I know both he and Ainsworth do have great leaps and that pace and attacking instincts they bring would be great but both might just push us over the precipice of too many short players, if we expect them to feature in our next finals side. Assuming it contains Zorko, Bundy, Taylor, Ainsworth and Bolton it does make for a pretty short 22. Don't want to be the Brisbane shortasses.

Would make us pretty short but who knows if Taylor is best 22 long term. No certainty there imo not too the point where I'd let it impact our draft decisions especially if our recruiters really rate Bolton and see him as best available. You add Bolton to Zorko and Cutler and if Reuben William can force his way into the senior side all of a sudden our side doesn't look as slow as it once did. Adding someone with extreme pace who can break open games and act as a point of difference for us should be a top priority in my opinion. Whether that guy is Bolton or someone else doesn't really bother me. I'd back the recruiters to select the right guy if they identify that as a want/need for us.

 

[pulpdriver]

Would make us pretty short but who knows if Taylor is best 22 long term. No certainty there imo not too the point where I'd let it impact our draft decisions especially if our recruiters really rate Bolton and see him as best available. You add Bolton to Zorko and Cutler and if Reuben William can force his way into the senior side all of a sudden our side doesn't look as slow as it once did. Adding someone with extreme pace who can break open games and act as a point of difference for us should be a top priority in my opinion. Whether that guy is Bolton or someone else doesn't really bother me. I'd back the recruiters to select the right guy if they identify that as a want/need for us.

Certainly reasonable points but if we have signed Taylor for 3 years and don't see him as long term then we have erred. I do think the speed they add would be fantastic but just worry that with the game already seeing 200cm+ players a staple up forward and in defense with 190cm+ players in the midfield that a point will be reached where you simply can't have too many short guys in your team unless they're really talented. All a moot point if these guys are and if we did pick them both I'd certainly back our recruiters decision over anything I have to say.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Interesting comment today by Noble to the effect that it's not all about talent and we are trading and drafting with a view to the future. All adds up to us taking a dark horse or two that we think might have development in them rather than ones likely to have impact in the shorter term.

 

[M Malice]

Would be a great haul but I think this draft is so even that which ever players fall at our picks we'll walk away feeling like we had a great "haul". I wouldn't mind looking at someone with some pace and x factor at pick 23 such as Bolton or Cedric Cox just to try and add a point of difference to our team. Dylan Clarke and Shai Bolton at picks 21 and 22 would be nice as I think those two would compliment each other well as they are basically polar opposites. Clarke is that inside, contested ball winning midfielder dishing it out to the outside types such as Bolton who is super quick and has that bit of x factor that can help turn a game in his team's favour. I just feel like Shai Bolton's pace would add such a difference to our side. I think we should go for one of McCluggage/McGrath/Ainsworth at pick 3 and than aim for a half back flanker, an inside midfielder and an outside midfielder at picks 16, 21 and 22.

Half back flanker options: Berry/Witherden/CCox

Inside midfielder options: Clarke/Drew/Atley

Outside midfielder options: Bolton/Simpkin/Venables

And then you have the inside/outside midfielders like Florent and SPP who we couldn't go wrong with either. I wouldn't be surprised if the recruiters are seriously considering a smokey or two e.g. Tom Doedee last year with our picks in the 16-22 range that would probably send the board into a meltdown but I personally love those sorts of picks!

great summary lionshine, on the smokey or 2, what about Brandan Parfitt/Zac Fisher/Will Hayward?

do you see Bolton as being a midfield option in the future? i thought he was more your small forward with short stints in the midfield type.

 

[jackess]

Will Hayward looks like Sam Mayes mkII. Could be the dangerous forward we always felt Mayes could become.

 

[lionshine]

great summary lionshine, on the smokey or 2, what about Brandan Parfitt/Zac Fisher/Will Hayward?

do you see Bolton as being a midfield option in the future? i thought he was more your small forward with short stints in the midfield type.

Perhaps but I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone who hasn't even been mentioned on here. A real smokey that our recruiters love who has flown under the radar somewhat. Those players tend to have at least one elite trait and overall are a player who they believe can be moulded into something special despite the fact that they are generally quite raw. It might be a physical trait such as their pace or endurance or athletic power or it might be more to do with footballing ability such as their skills or ability to accumulate the footy or kick goals or shut down dangerous opposition forwards.

 

[lionshine]

Will Hayward looks like Sam Mayes mkII. Could be the dangerous forward we always felt Mayes could become.

He knows where the goals are that's for sure. Not as silky as Mayes but definitely dangerous up forward and if we drafted both him and Ainsworth we could have a decent forward set up with the 2 key talls in Schache and Hipwood, a dangerous 3rd tall in Hayward and a gun small forward in Ainsworth. They could form a potent quartet. I'm not completely sold on Hayward though. I am not sure his skill set will translate all that well to AFL level but certainly haven't seen enough of him to make an educated call on that. On limited vision that's the impression I get but if he could translate his game to the next level he could be as influential as someone like a Jack Gunston.