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2016 Draft discussion

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Mcluggage looks all class from footage I've seen. Statistically as well he is one of the best performed midfielders that have ever come through, in a midfielders draft to boot.

As well as coming off 0 preseason. I mean geese he makes for good reading I wouldn't be disappointed if he slipt through as well.
 
Lions Lions said:
Bundy is not explosive or really pacy and while Taylor is he is one of the worst decision makers in our team. Would not be surprised if we take Ainsworth and another small forward mid who has real pace and can kick goals... Shai Bolton could be one or even Ben Long who I have heard will go high despite missing out on last year. His finals series for Footscray was electric against AFL defenders.
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I'm surprised at people saying Taylor is a poor decision maker. I think that's one of his strengths. It's not his fault we had no-one to kick to the last couple of years.
My knock on him was his inability to provide pressure acts.
 

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Billy Puller said:
Mcluggage looks all class from footage I've seen. Statistically as well he is one of the best performed midfielders that have ever come through, in a midfielders draft to boot.

As well as coming off 0 preseason. I mean geese he makes for good reading I wouldn't be disappointed if he slipt through as well.
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Exactly, I'm all for Ainsworth but if it's McCluggage then it's just as good. I think our first pick is a safe bet and just hope we do just as well with the rest.
 
Lace Out said:
2017,not sure he'll make the grade.

Needs a big year.
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Yeah I'm starting to have my doubts. Was highly regarded by many including our club through his junior years and then was playing 1st 18 for Caulfield Grammar while in year 10 which was cause for great optimism given a guy by the name of Judd did likewise. But as you say he didn't really come on this year and although he has grown a tad he is still very small. Didn't get much TAC Cup time this year due to APS commitments but when he did he didn't stand out.
By way of comparison, another under ager from Caulfield, Jack Higgins, had an exceptional year and is looking a possible first rounder next year.
I will be seeing a fair bit of both next year and will keep people posted on their progress, particularly Lachie.
 
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Quigley said:
I was a bit disappointed in Clayton at the beginning of the year but I was impressed with his improvement over the season. If he can continue that upward curve we could have a very nice player on our hands.
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Defensive back pocket type yeah?
 
Quigley said:
I was a bit disappointed in Clayton at the beginning of the year but I was impressed with his improvement over the season. If he can continue that upward curve we could have a very nice player on our hands.
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Any chance we will rookie Rolls this year? Seems to have dropped out of contention for the ND.
 
WhiteLionFeva said:
Any chance we will rookie Rolls this year? Seems to have dropped out of contention for the ND.
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I think so. It realistically comes down to who is available in the rookie draft though- I'd certainly not be surprised if we take him.
 
My write up of Allison for those interested:

Jacob Allison

Allison would have to be one of the disappointments of this draft class this year. He was an All-Australian last year as a bottom ager but he failed to deliver this year in fact he looked to go backwards. He still gets drafted but where he was widely tipped to be in the top 10 coming into the year he is probably looking at being taken in the 30s now as a best case scenario. That is not to say there is not talent there but he has highlighted major holes in his game this year.

The two big issues that with his game this year were:

1. He just could not find the ball. He was done no favours by the Allies coaching staff but even still he just could not seem to find the ball. When he was around it he seemed to read the play reasonably well but he seemed a mile away from it too often. I am not sure if he was playing to instructions but whatever he did not find enough of it this year. Last year he was a lot better playing on the wing and at half back. I think that is where he has to play at AFL level and he needs to work harder spreading and getting to space. He played deep forward and some time onball and I just do not think those positions showed his skill set off to best advantage.

2. Allison has the size that teams are all trying to introduce into their onball unit and he was given a chance in that role this year. Whilst he did show some decent ability to read the taps his hands were just not clean enough for him to be considered in that role at AFL level any time soon. He fumbled pretty constantly and unless there was a coachable reason for it (eg keeping his head down for a heartbeat longer) you probably have to write off him as an inside option.

The other area which has gone from a strength to a weakness is probably his kicking. Make no mistake the kid still has a cannon of a leg but he just did not hit targets often enough this year. He is still capable of kicking it 60m from ease and I have seen him deliver little round the corner chips from 50 which have gone over the fence. What he has not shown this year is any touch with his long kicks. To make things worse I think his kicks are very difficult to judge in the air. Players seem to constantly run under Allison's long kicks. Players seem to play for a normal player's kick and move forward only to have the ball keep going and floating over their heads. Early in the year he also bought into his own hype by going long with virtually every kick and usually quite indiscriminately. He did start to look for shorter targets as the season developed. On his shorter targets he occasionally pulled out a bullet that nailed his target but he did develop a tendency to leave it short too much.

So that is a lot of negative, why should a team pick him? In short because he is a 194cm, lightning quick player, with a cannon of a leg who can regularly kick goals from outside 50. Getting forward from defence or on the wing he is a player who can distort zones and create space for his team's forwards. He has conceded that he rested on his laurels a bit over the offseason and leading into the year and personally I still see the upside that was there last year. He finished school last year and the freedom he had for the first time resulted him taking his eye off the ball. Get him into an AFL program and get him focused on what he needs to work on and you could end up with a very good player. He has a very high ceiling.

Allison was the fastest player tested at the Combine running a 2.87 over the 20m. He also showed very good agility for a 194cm player and was in the top 20% for the vertical jump. His repeat sprint was good and endurance testing above average but with attention needed. Combined with his height and leg, his athleticism makes him an enticing prospect which I am sure a lot of coaches would to try and work out how to make best use of those very valuable traits.

One of the things which has counted against him a bit this year I think is that he has not settled into a position and made it his own. He has always been a bit of a utility and whilst that can be good it does lend itself to being played in some less valuable roles. This year he played a lot as a deep forward and inside mid in the rep games and I do not think that really suits him. For me he is an outside player you want coming from behind the ball. In addition to his pace and leg he is also a good mark of the ball on the outside. Allison is also most dangerous from a goal scoring perspective when he is running toward goal rather than leading away from it.

When he gets a run at the ball he is strong in the air and given his height and jumping ability he can outmark most small or medium types he is likely to be matched up on. There is some chance that he develops into a key position or third tall but at the moment I think he is most valuable as an outside runner where he is likely to enjoy significant advantages. It is worth noting that the one time he was switched into defence at the Div 1 Champs was in the last quarter against Vic Country. Going into that quarter the Allies were behind but they managed to shut down VC and come back to win the game. Allison was quietly influential in that result. If you go back and look at that quarter have a look at his positioning when VC were trying to enter the ball into 50. He was regularly in the right spot and either deterred the entry or influenced the contest. His spoiling and marking was good and his tackling influential. I really like the aggression that he brings to his tackling. He attacks the man and can make things happen with his defensive work.

The floor for Allison looks a lot lower than it did at this time last year. Still with his upside I think there will be quite a few teams interested in taking a punt on him if the Lions decide not to match. Given how they traded out of the middle rounds of the draft it is no certainty that the Lions will match a bid on Allison.
 
Quigley said:
My write up of Allison for those interested:

Jacob Allison

Allison would have to be one of the disappointments of this draft class this year. He was an All-Australian last year as a bottom ager but he failed to deliver this year in fact he looked to go backwards. He still gets drafted but where he was widely tipped to be in the top 10 coming into the year he is probably looking at being taken in the 30s now as a best case scenario. That is not to say there is not talent there but he has highlighted major holes in his game this year.

The two big issues that with his game this year were:

1. He just could not find the ball. He was done no favours by the Allies coaching staff but even still he just could not seem to find the ball. When he was around it he seemed to read the play reasonably well but he seemed a mile away from it too often. I am not sure if he was playing to instructions but whatever he did not find enough of it this year. Last year he was a lot better playing on the wing and at half back. I think that is where he has to play at AFL level and he needs to work harder spreading and getting to space. He played deep forward and some time onball and I just do not think those positions showed his skill set off to best advantage.

2. Allison has the size that teams are all trying to introduce into their onball unit and he was given a chance in that role this year. Whilst he did show some decent ability to read the taps his hands were just not clean enough for him to be considered in that role at AFL level any time soon. He fumbled pretty constantly and unless there was a coachable reason for it (eg keeping his head down for a heartbeat longer) you probably have to write off him as an inside option.

The other area which has gone from a strength to a weakness is probably his kicking. Make no mistake the kid still has a cannon of a leg but he just did not hit targets often enough this year. He is still capable of kicking it 60m from ease and I have seen him deliver little round the corner chips from 50 which have gone over the fence. What he has not shown this year is any touch with his long kicks. To make things worse I think his kicks are very difficult to judge in the air. Players seem to constantly run under Allison's long kicks. Players seem to play for a normal player's kick and move forward only to have the ball keep going and floating over their heads. Early in the year he also bought into his own hype by going long with virtually every kick and usually quite indiscriminately. He did start to look for shorter targets as the season developed. On his shorter targets he occasionally pulled out a bullet that nailed his target but he did develop a tendency to leave it short too much.

So that is a lot of negative, why should a team pick him? In short because he is a 194cm, lightning quick player, with a cannon of a leg who can regularly kick goals from outside 50. Getting forward from defence or on the wing he is a player who can distort zones and create space for his team's forwards. He has conceded that he rested on his laurels a bit over the offseason and leading into the year and personally I still see the upside that was there last year. He finished school last year and the freedom he had for the first time resulted him taking his eye off the ball. Get him into an AFL program and get him focused on what he needs to work on and you could end up with a very good player. He has a very high ceiling.

Allison was the fastest player tested at the Combine running a 2.87 over the 20m. He also showed very good agility for a 194cm player and was in the top 20% for the vertical jump. His repeat sprint was good and endurance testing above average but with attention needed. Combined with his height and leg, his athleticism makes him an enticing prospect which I am sure a lot of coaches would to try and work out how to make best use of those very valuable traits.

One of the things which has counted against him a bit this year I think is that he has not settled into a position and made it his own. He has always been a bit of a utility and whilst that can be good it does lend itself to being played in some less valuable roles. This year he played a lot as a deep forward and inside mid in the rep games and I do not think that really suits him. For me he is an outside player you want coming from behind the ball. In addition to his pace and leg he is also a good mark of the ball on the outside. Allison is also most dangerous from a goal scoring perspective when he is running toward goal rather than leading away from it.

When he gets a run at the ball he is strong in the air and given his height and jumping ability he can outmark most small or medium types he is likely to be matched up on. There is some chance that he develops into a key position or third tall but at the moment I think he is most valuable as an outside runner where he is likely to enjoy significant advantages. It is worth noting that the one time he was switched into defence at the Div 1 Champs was in the last quarter against Vic Country. Going into that quarter the Allies were behind but they managed to shut down VC and come back to win the game. Allison was quietly influential in that result. If you go back and look at that quarter have a look at his positioning when VC were trying to enter the ball into 50. He was regularly in the right spot and either deterred the entry or influenced the contest. His spoiling and marking was good and his tackling influential. I really like the aggression that he brings to his tackling. He attacks the man and can make things happen with his defensive work.

The floor for Allison looks a lot lower than it did at this time last year. Still with his upside I think there will be quite a few teams interested in taking a punt on him if the Lions decide not to match. Given how they traded out of the middle rounds of the draft it is no certainty that the Lions will match a bid on Allison.
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Thanks for that, whilst I can well imagine the club not match any bids in say the 20's, I do genuinely hope we draft him.

High ceiling and a local, I can well imagine him kicking on next year. I would be quite happy for the club to go in to deficit to get both Allison and Watson on draft night.

Thanks for the write up, always helpful for non-QLD based fans such as myself.
 

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Certainly dont think there is anything wrong with him playing a hb flank. Speed, long kicking and height are all good traits playing from defence. like the idea of allison Cutler and a Berry type playing across HB.

He is the type you want running past just outside of your defensive 50 getting a handball stepping a guy and kicking it from basically half way and reaching inside 50. very very hard to stop that kind of ball movement. Rich, Cutler and Allison all very capable of getting a sneaky handball and kicking a 55m goal with ease. Teams will have to be very alert when the ball is anywhere within 70m of goal. Always a bonus to have some offensive defenders to keep the opposition forwards honest.
 
Would be nice to have someone other than Rich for opposition teams to worry about for the sneaky 70m out handball off to the running player, thats for sure.
 
I can understand why Allison was played in other positions this year in relation to try and develop his game. Agree that he is more of an outside player than in inside player and still have hopes that he comes to the Lions. He sounds like a Matt Suckling type. Hopefully a bid will come later rather than earlier and we pick him up. Quigley did you do a write up for Watson?
 
jjami15 said:
I can understand why Allison was played in other positions this year in relation to try and develop his game. Agree that he is more of an outside player than in inside player and still have hopes that he comes to the Lions. He sounds like a Matt Suckling type. Hopefully a bid will come later rather than earlier and we pick him up. Quigley did you do a write up for Watson?
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Declan Watson

Watson seems to be falling down the draft lists and the way things are heading someone could end up with a very big bargain. He is a Lions academy player but with the Lions having a large gap after their fourth pick at 22 there might be a real chance of another team grabbing Watson. I think Watson looks like a prototypical modern defender who will work very well in an AFL zone defence. He is capable in a shut down role but I do not think this is his strength.

Watson is a very good judge of the ball in the air for a key defender and is at his best when he has the flexibility to play in space and back himself to get to the ball. When he has that space it is noticeable how frequently he is the guy in the best position to mark the ball. He is not put off when others in the contest gets out of position and he will back himself in. His hands are very good for a KPD and he can clunk his marks. He shows good awareness for when to mark and when to spoil.

The Combine results would have been a disappointment for Watson and for me things didn't really align with what I have seen of him on the field. Like quite a few he measured short and I think the 194cm he was listed as at the Champs is more likely to be accurate. He looks to have decent size. I note that his arms measured long and his reach was in at the 87th percentile which seems right. I think he has enough height to play KPD at AFL level. Pace was another area where watching him play he seems to have more than enough. Perhaps it is just that he reacts quicker than others but in game situations he looks pretty quick. The sprint results at the Combine were a bit confusing. He managed only a 3.11 for the 20m (disappointing but not disasterous) which was in the bottom 15% of those tested. In the 30m repeat sprint though he was in the top 30% which is where I had been hoping to see him in the 20m as well.

His agility test was also poor which you do not want to see from a KPD. A lot of guys who do not train for the agility test do poorly in it and I would hope this was the case for Watson. He is not a guy who seems to have trouble recovering in game situations. His endurance testing was pretty middle of the pack.

I think Watson has suffered in many eye's because of he had his worst game of the year in the televised game against WA. So there are all the highlights out there of him missing targets time and again. I have seen him 7 or 8 times over the year and I think that game really misrepresented the quality of his disposal skills. Watson is an excellent kick for a KP and has been the designated kick in taker for most of the teams he has played with. He is good in that role and you can see the quality of his kicks. In field play he reads the play well and is not afraid to take the tight options. This can sometimes result in turnovers but I do like his confidence and in most games the results are good and he can put his teammates away. The feel on his kicks is usually very good although it can go missing sometimes.

Watson has good penetration on his handballs but he can miss targets sometimes. Under pressure Watson is composed and is not one of the KPDs who gets flustered and gives the ball away whenever someone gets close to him. He can sometimes handball to a close target under pressure but I think this has often been as much the fault of the receiver as of Watson.

Overall I really like Watson and hope the Lions pick him up. I see him developing into a very skilled, intercept marking defender who can participate effectively both ways.
 
Adding Watson and Himmelberg would give us a couple of more developing KPPs as well as Hammer.
 

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WA Lion said:
Do we have the list spots for Himmelberg as well as Allison and Watson or might he slip to the rookie draft?
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We have 6 list spots so yes. But I was thinking rookie list for Himmelberg. Must remember we don't have priority access to him.
 
jackess said:
We have 6 list spots so yes. But I was thinking rookie list for Himmelberg. Must remember we don't have priority access to him.
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Yeah he wasn't in our academy long enough or something like that?

From the snippets I saw of him it would be good if he could slip to the rookie draft for sure
 
jackess said:
We have 6 list spots so yes. But I was thinking rookie list for Himmelberg. Must remember we don't have priority access to him.
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I have no idea whether he's in the ballpark, but IIRC Twomey was talking about Himmelberg possibly going in the 20-40 range in the latest road to the draft podcast.
 
In regards to Dawson and the comment about him developing into an 'intercept marking defender' is an area that Noble and Fagan have stated as a need. Thanks for your insights Quigley.
 
WhiteLionFeva said:
Any chance we will rookie Rolls this year? Seems to have dropped out of contention for the ND.
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I would like to think so as I do rate him but I do note that others who watch a bit of the NEAFL (thinking thoselionslads here) are more sceptical. He moved more into the midfield this year and was okay but his biggest strength and point of differentiation ie his short kicking, dropped away. The injury two thirds of the way through the year robbed him of a chance to show improvement and has hurt him as well.
 
It's a bit early to be making calls on what Hipwood will turn out as yet. I think he's way ahead of what would've been expected of him, especially given that he was playing as a true key forward and still doing very well. We can probably be pretty confident that Fagan won't be making any big positional changes based off what Hipwood showed this season.
 

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