2016 Draft discussion

[M Malice]

unless a kid flat out says he doesn't want to come to us i would be taking who we consider the best available for our needs, we have to back our system in or we mise well just give up as pulpdriver says.

it is so even up the top of the draft this year, i don't think we can miss if we take any of the top 4-5 rated kids. for what it is worth i would be going in order of preference McCluggage, Petrevski-Seton, Brodie, Ainsworth, McGrath. for our current pick 20 i will be hoping one of Fisher, Bolton or Simpkin is still available.

 

[lionsbest]

Speed!! I feel the need for speed in all of our draftees this year.

Totally agree skill and speed absolute must!!!!

 

[briztoon]

I think that's the "heard" bit, i.e. someone told him directly. He probably doesn't have an audio recording.

Hey dlanod, I understand that.

From reading here, it appears at times that there are some people who are in the know, who do have various contacts. However I do not pay enough attention to who posts what to follow who appears to be itk. So when some one posts an opinion that has some finality about it, I like to ask just how accurate their information is.

 

[M Malice]

Hey dlanod, I understand that.

From reading here, it appears at times that there are some people who are in the know, who do have various contacts. However I do not pay enough attention to who posts what to follow who appears to be itk. So when some one posts an opinion that has some finality about it, I like to ask just how accurate their information is.

yep, we need some sort of reliability of information accuracy index ranging all the way from "the horses mouth" to "bullshit".

 

[briztoon]

Totally agree skill and speed absolute must!!!!

I hate to state the bleeding obvious, but shouldn't all the top prospects have a high degree of skill, and that the lower in the draft you go, the less skill prospects tend to have.

 

[theteamtobeat]

I hate to state the bleeding obvious, but shouldn't all the top prospects have a high degree of skill, and that the lower in the draft you go, the less skill prospects tend to have.

Problem is some of them are outside type players who have trouble winning their own footy. Aish, Mayes and Toumpas are perfect examples. They have great skills, but what's the point in using a high pick on them if they can't win their own ball. McCluggage, SPS and Brodie have shown they can win their own ball.

 

[briztoon]

I understand, but isn't winning your own ball a football skill?

 

[lionshine]

I understand, but isn't winning your own ball a football skill?

It is a "skill", however, when people are discussing skills in AFL they are generally talking about handballing and kicking.

 

[lionsbest]

I hate to state the bleeding obvious, but shouldn't all the top prospects have a high degree of skill, and that the lower in the draft you go, the less skill prospects tend to have.

I believe an absolute gem in Simon black pick 31 would strongly disagree. Rhys Mathieson pick 39.Using your theory
Ryan Basty for 17 pick should an absolute gun.He will ,in my opinion never ever ever Be to standard of Simon,who I again remind you was pick 31 !!! Then For those who love rocky preseason draft.

Point - knowledge is power and if recruiters are worth their salt , gems can be found at any pick. My dad who used be up 5.00 am ( an all night effort, sometimes 13 hours ) in the morning doing recruiting tapes will tell. Recruiting is bloody hard work.but hard work and knowledge are extremely powerful in finding those absolute gems at any pick. Whether or not they then make it, is then up to the individual player to show they have the character and respect to repay the recruiters faith in them.

 

[scoman]

yep, we need some sort of reliability of information accuracy index ranging all the way from "the horses mouth" to "bullshit".

But didnt "the horses mouth" turn out to be "bullshit" ??

 

[M Malice]

But didnt "the horses mouth" turn out to be "bullshit" ??

come to think of it that accuracy index is probably not that broad. maybe a grain of salt would come in handy as well.

 

[briztoon]

I believe an absolute gem in Simon black pick 31 would strongly disagree. Rhys Mathieson pick 39.Using your theory
Ryan Basty for 17 pick should an absolute gun.He will ,in my opinion never ever ever Be to standard of Simon,who I again remind you was pick 31 !!! Then For those who love rocky preseason draft.

Point - knowledge is power and if recruiters are worth their salt , gems can be found at any pick. My dad who used be up 5.00 am ( an all night effort, sometimes 13 hours ) in the morning doing recruiting tapes will tell. Recruiting is bloody hard work.but hard work and knowledge are extremely powerful in finding those absolute gems at any pick. Whether or not they then make it, is then up to the individual player show they have the character and respect to repay the recruitings staff faith in them.

I believe you totally missed what I was saying.

 

[lionsbest]

I believe you totally missed what I was saying.

What were you trying to say? It looked like to me you were saying the top picks have better skill set and the further you go into the draft the skill set is less. can you please explain? I am interested to know and sorry if I missed your point.I took what you wrote literally.

 

[Surly Boy]

FWIW

 

[BRAB]

Essendon wanted Brodie to train with them right?

If they don't take him, you'd think they'd maybe be trying to butter him up for a trade in the future given we have pick 2 and Freo have pick 3.

It might be the done thing though. I'm not that informed of pre-draft procedure

 

[briztoon]

What were you trying to say? It looked like to me you were saying the top picks have better skill set and the further you go into the draft the skill set is less. can you please explain? I am interested to know and sorry if I missed your point.

Sort of what I was saying. I was basically saying you better hope the top prospects have both speed and skill, otherwise why are they being rated as a top prospect.

And yes, the lower down the draft we pick, the harder it will be to find players with both a combination of speed and skill.

Simon Black and Rhys are not noted speedsters, but they make up for the lack of speed with their skill level. They lack one of the two prerequisites you originally asked for.

You have to look at why players such as Black and Mathieson dropped. Black dropped because of his perceived lack of physical gifts. Mathieson because he showed up to the draft combine out of shape, possibly leading recruiters to question his commitment to the sport as a professional.

Look at a player such Sam Powell-Pepper and why he isn't rated as a high first round prospect by many analysts. He is viewed as a contested ball beast with break away speed, two attributes highly sort after. So why isn't he rated up there with the top midfielders in the draft?

 

[lionsbest]

Sort of what I was saying. I was basically saying you better hope the top prospects have both speed and skill, otherwise why are they being rated as a top prospect.

And yes, the lower down the draft we pick, the harder it will be to find players with both a combination of speed and skill.

Simon Black and Rhys are not noted speedsters, but they make up for the lack of speed with their skill level. They lack one of the two prerequisites you originally asked for.

You have to look at why players such as Black and Mathieson dropped. Black dropped because of his perceived lack of physical gifts. Mathieson because he showed up to the draft combine out of shape, possibly leading recruiters to question his commitment to the sport as a professional.

Look at a player such Sam Powell-Pepper and why he isn't rated as a high first round prospect by many analysts. He is viewed as a contested ball beast with break away speed, two attributes highly sort after. So why isn't he rated up there with the top midfielders in the draft?

I am not saying every player we draft has to have elite foot speed.Speed is subjective.it is impossible to have perfection in every position.
From what I have seen, Brisbane's skills are in desperate need of elite foot skills ,awareness ( footy brain ) and speed. With 22 players, not all players will possess all of these ,that is just fact.Speed and elite foot skills are in desparate need for our outside run and carry.we are , I feel to slow in this area compared to other teams.
Awareness I rate as a skill .to know where your opponents are in relation to you and your team mates .You may disagree with me , ( speed is not always about how fast you can run, it also applies to speed in assessing your options and making correct decisions quickly) but all the games I have seen we tend to, more often than not handball to a player under pressure or kick to a player in a worst position or simply not even hit our targets by foot.I really find this extremely frustrating.Black was ok with his running speed ,by no means a Chris Judd ,but his foot skills and footy brain made him extremely dangerous. In regards to SPP, he is hit and miss with his foot skills.he has the ability to break the lines with speed but from what I have seen ,SPP cannot hit his targets consistently enough for my liking ,making his speed, to me ,meaningless.i.e not damaging enough.
Mathieson has the skill. I believe the point that he was out of shape is a mute point because our recruiters saw the potential in terms of skill. I believe that if a player has the will ,endurance and fitness can be worked on. Skill ,awareness and speed is a lot harder to achieve.Black was not a speed demon by foot but he was a speed demon with his awareness,( footy smarts )i.e. to find a teammate in a better position, in congestion.he was elite in this area.

The point you make about the lower picks ,I feel is a generalisation. There are gems out there ,you just have to do a lot of work as a recruiter ,to find them, so it is not impossible as you make it out to be.

 

[POBT]

I think they key point to be made is that the further you go into the draft, the less likely it is that you will find a complete player. Sure, the likes of Simon Black prove that it is not impossible to find a gem. But the strike rate is lower than in the top 10 or 20. Therefore, the risk you take is higher.

FWIW, it is not just speed and skill that we need to be looking for. We need desire, professionalism, endurance, ball winning, leadership, footy intelligence, defensive work ethic......the list goes on.

 

[briztoon]

I am not saying every player we draft has to have elite foot speed.Speed is subjective.it is impossible to have perfection in every position.
From what I have seen, Brisbane's skills are in desperate need of elite foot skills ,awareness ( footy brain ) and speed. With 22 players, not all players will possess all of these ,that is just fact.Speed and elite foot skills are in desparate need for our outside run and carry.we are , I feel to slow in this area compared to other teams.
Awareness I rate as a skill .to know where your opponents are in relation to you and your team mates .You may disagree with me , ( speed is not always about how fast you can run, it also applies to speed in assessing your options and making correct decisions quickly) but all the games I have seen we tend to, more often than not handball to a player under pressure or kick to a player in a worst position or simply not even hit our targets by foot.I really find this extremely frustrating.Black was ok with his running speed ,by no means a Chris Judd ,but his foot skills and footy brain made him extremely dangerous. In regards to SPP, he is hit and miss with his foot skills.he has the ability to break the lines with speed but from what I have seen ,SPP cannot hit his targets consistently enough for my liking ,making his speed, to me ,meaningless.i.e not damaging enough.
Mathieson has the skill. I believe the point that he was out of shape is a mute point because our recruiters saw the potential in terms of skill. I believe that if a player has the will ,endurance and fitness can be worked on. Skill ,awareness and speed is a lot harder to achieve.Black was not a speed demon by foot but he was a speed demon with his awareness,( footy smarts )i.e. to find a teammate in a better position, in congestion.he was elite in this area.

The point you make about the lower picks ,I feel is a generalisation. There are gems out there ,you just have to do a lot of work as a recruiter ,to find them, so it is not impossible as you make it out to be.

Certainly don't disagree with you. I work Thursday to Monday, so do not have a chance to attend live games, but record the Lions games to watch later. I count count how many times I've almost thrown something at the tv when a Lions player has kicked or passed a football to a team mate who was closely marked.

The point I made about lower picks is a generalisation, but that doesn't make it any less true. There are gems to be found later in the draft, but they are the exception and not the norm.

 

[jjami15]

I think they key point to be made is that the further you go into the draft, the less likely it is that you will find a complete player. Sure, the likes of Simon Black prove that it is not impossible to find a gem. But the strike rate is lower than in the top 10 or 20. Therefore, the risk you take is higher.

FWIW, it is not just speed and skill that we need to be looking for. We need desire, professionalism, endurance, ball winning, leadership, footy intelligence, defensive work ethic......the list goes on.

Add 'spunk and swagger' to that list.

 

[M Malice]

Add 'spunk and swagger' to that list.

eg. Rhys Matheison and Eric Hipwood.

for all the doom and gloom that has been the last 2 years if we get our ND, trade/FA and coaching setup decisions right this off season + new admin/training base announcement i see a bright light at the end of the very long and bumpy tunnel we have been in.

 

[SizeMatters]

Can't get too ahead of ourselves yet. We as a whole club have failed at developing players after the first 2 years of this time at the club. A lot of players have looked good when they are drafted by us but then stagnate.

 

[M Malice]

Can't get too ahead of ourselves yet. We as a whole club have failed at developing players after the first 2 years of this time at the club. A lot of players have looked good when they are drafted by us but then stagnate.

probably been the result of playing before their time, the un competitiveness of the NEAFL side and the difficulty of playing with a group of senior players who on the whole have under performed.

a lot easier for a youngster too look good if they are gradually introduced into a good side, the swans are just brilliant at this, if we had Alir, Papley and Hewett i would say they would be struggling in our side.

 

[jackess]

probably been the result of playing before their time, the un competitiveness of the NEAFL side and the difficulty of playing with a group of senior players who on the whole have under performed.

a lot easier for a youngster too look good if they are gradually introduced into a good side, the swans are just brilliant at this, if we had Alir, Papley and Hewett i would say they would be struggling in our side.

According to Leppa it's best to get as many games into the kids as quickly as you can.

 

[M Malice]

According to Leppa it's best to get as many games into the kids as quickly as you can.

unfortunately he has no other option ATM. although he did say last week that half our side should be playing in the NEAFL.