2016 Draft discussion

[SizeMatters]

Hawks have drafted mature aged players such as Puopolo, Smith etc. so I think Fagan will have no issues if we went down that road. Fits what he wants as well and Ryan is super talented but I agree that his endurance base and looks like his poor skin folds are pretty big factors to consider. Is he professional enough as well?

 

[M Malice]

Hawks have drafted mature aged players such as Puopolo, Smith etc. so I think Fagan will have no issues if we went down that road. Fits what he wants as well and Ryan is super talented but I agree that his endurance base and looks like his poor skin folds are pretty big factors to consider. Is he professional enough as well?

Liam Ryan has only just turned 20, we may look on him as a medium term project (2018-20), get a couple of AFL system pre seasons under his belt and he could be anything. the proviso is that we have done extensive interviews and assessed his willingness to commit to a full time career and move to the other side of the country.

would be a huge call to take him at 21/22 though.

 

[Flea_29]

Is pick 3 too high for Ainsworth.....many of the ratings have him around 7.

Should the club pick him for the perceived reduced flight factor or should we be picking the best available mid?

Best available - not sure that has worked for us in the past
WB took a punt with Bont at pick 4 & Geel with Mackie at pick 7 - just to name 2.
You pick the best player for your club and Ainsworth is just that. Furthermore, we have pick 16 as well.
Ainsworth and Berry/Simpkin would be a great combo for picks 3 & 16.

In my opinion, Ainsworth & one of Berry/Simpkin > McCluggage/McGrath

 

[a mayes ing]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/s...sends-afl-draft-recruiters-into-frenzy/#page1



At just 20 years of age and Fagan on the hunt for small forwards he might be a big smokey at pick 22. Only recorded a level 10 beep test though so his endurance needs massive work and is the sort of thing that leads to talented players like Ryan going un drafted.

Would we want both Ainsworth and Ryan though?

 

[M Malice]

Would we want both Ainsworth and Ryan though?

Ben Ainsworth will turn into a 70/30 mid/fwd type hopefully and Liam Ryan a 80/20 fwd/mid ie. our Cyril.

 

[lionshine]

Would we want both Ainsworth and Ryan though?

Ainsworth is a midfield prospect.

 

[POBT]

I know that there's been a bit of talk that we'll take a smokey with one of our picks but I'm not sure. For starters, we've not really used high picks speculatively in recent years. Generally speaking, we've either taken guys roughly where they've been rated by the consensus view or we've taken guys who have slid a bit.

Secondly, I think we've got to build our midfield and running brigade up, both to supplement our current group but more importantly to have the midfield pieces in place for when Schache, Hipwood and Andrews et al really blossom. This seems to be a draft year when there's a bit of midfield depth, if nothing else. Unless our recruiters are of a different view, harvesting 3 of those decent mids/flankers with our bunch of picks around 20 seems a prudent approach.

I also don't see that trading to get higher in the draft is all that compatible with taking someone that no one else rates.

 

[irel]

I know that there's been a bit of talk that we'll take a smokey with one of our picks but I'm not sure. For starters, we've not really used high picks speculatively in recent years. Generally speaking, we've either taken guys roughly where they've been rated by the consensus view or we've taken guys who have slid a bit.

Secondly, I think we've got to build our midfield and running brigade up, both to supplement our current group but more importantly to have the midfield pieces in place for when Schache, Hipwood and Andrews et al really blossom. This seems to be a draft year when there's a bit of midfield depth, if nothing else. Unless our recruiters are of a different view, harvesting 3 of those decent mids/flankers with our bunch of picks around 20 seems a prudent approach.

I also don't see that trading to get higher in the draft is all that compatible with taking someone that no one else rates.

I agree entirely. Noble and Schwabby are very strategic thinkers. I don't think they would have spent three weeks planing and maneuvering to get four picks inside the top 25 in potentially one of the best midfielders draft for them to take punts on speculative players. I believe at pick 3 they are genuinely conflicted of which player to take. There is very little separating the top six rated players in this draft. I would be happy with any of them with huge preference for Taranto. As for pick 16 I believe there is a list of players that are bunched together very close as well. My Preference would be Berry or Florent or Logue or Marshal if available.
With our early 20's picks it would be, as you say selecting sliders and there would be few, because clubs would start selecting for needs soon as the top six rated players go. Whichever way Conole goes, I would think it would be very strategic and process driven selections and not wild stabs and punting on romantic ideals or other such notions.

 

[Nunez]

I know that there's been a bit of talk that we'll take a smokey with one of our picks but I'm not sure. For starters, we've not really used high picks speculatively in recent years. Generally speaking, we've either taken guys roughly where they've been rated by the consensus view or we've taken guys who have slid a bit.

Secondly, I think we've got to build our midfield and running brigade up, both to supplement our current group but more importantly to have the midfield pieces in place for when Schache, Hipwood and Andrews et al really blossom. This seems to be a draft year when there's a bit of midfield depth, if nothing else. Unless our recruiters are of a different view, harvesting 3 of those decent mids/flankers with our bunch of picks around 20 seems a prudent approach.

I also don't see that trading to get higher in the draft is all that compatible with taking someone that no one else rates.

I agree for the most part. Our first 3 picks will be anything but speculative imo, but if at pick 22 there is a player that we have researched and we rate that not many other clubs rate at rhat particular part ofthe draft, I can see us taking said player. Someone like Stewart from the Cats VFL side.

 

[POBT]

I agree for the most part. Our first 3 picks will be anything but speculative imo, but if at pick 22 there is a player that we have researched and we rate that not many other clubs rate at rhat particular part ofthe draft, I can see us taking said player. Someone like Stewart from the Cats VFL side.

But why would we have traded into the top 22, if the player we like could be got at a later pick? Having four picks inside the first 22 actually creates a bit of a headache for us in terms of flexibility. If we have our eye on a smokey, we could have easily traded pick 22 down the draft.

I think the logical conclusion is that we have our eye on a group of players who we think will be available in the first 22 but not any later.

I'm not ruling out a smokey but I don't think that's the strategy. I reckon we've got a ceiling on where we think the talent runs out and we traded accordingly. If all the players we like are gone by pick 22, then it brings in the possibility that we have to think a bit more laterally. But, I maintain plan A is to get 4 guys we think are top twenty prospects.

 

[Leemas]

Really hope we stay away from Liam Ryan. Goes against turfing Green if we pick up a bloke who could only record a 10.1 beep. That's actually so piss poor it isn't funny and clearly shows this bloke does not want to work for an AFL opportunity. Let's not even get started on the potential off field issues we'd probably have to end up facing too.

 

[M Malice]

hypothetically the "smokey" we maybe looking at at pick 22 could be a player that is widely regarded as someone that will go in the 30-40 range and we have traded up to that 22 to make sure that we get our man?

i am also sure that if there is a slider at 22 who Schwab and co thought would not be there then they would overlook the smokey and take the slider.

we all know that the slider trumps the smokey.

 

[Sherrinator]

If we pick up anyone but highly touted midfield draftees, I will be bitterly disappointed.

 

[POBT]

hypothetically the "smokey" we maybe looking at at pick 22 could be a player that is widely regarded as someone that will go in the 30-40 range and we have traded up to that 22 to make sure that we get our man?

i am also sure that if there is a slider at 22 who Schwab and co thought would not be there then they would overlook the smokey and take the slider.

we all know that the slider trumps the smokey.

Need an approved definition of a "smokey".

 

[POBT]

If we pick up anyone but highly touted midfield draftees, I will be bitterly disappointed.

I'm kinda of the same view. Happy to take flankers but I want them to be high production types.

 

[Bucking Beads]

If we pick up anyone but highly touted midfield draftees, I will be bitterly disappointed.

I agree but I think we could also use a small forward and a defender who can take small forwards TBH. I really want speed in our new recruits too.

 

[SizeMatters]

I honestly don't want Ainsworth at pick 3 which goes against Lion board thinking as he hasn't really been productive over a whole game. He can get going for about 5 minutes and play breathtaking footy but then you won't see him for 2 quarters. Starting to warm to Taranto and Brodie at pick 3 if McGrath and McCluggage are gone. Both can accumulate, have shown consistent midfield ability and both are needs.

 

[M Malice]

Need an approved definition of a "smokey".

 

[M Malice]

I honestly don't want Ainsworth at pick 3 which goes against Lion board thinking as he hasn't really been productive over a whole game. He can get going for about 5 minutes and play breathtaking footy but then you won't see him for 2 quarters. Starting to warm to Taranto and Brodie at pick 3 if McGrath and McCluggage are gone. Both can accumulate, have shown consistent midfield ability and both are needs.

if we went one of those 2 you mentioned i would prefer Taranto. if we could take anyone? in order of preference-

McGrath, Ainsworth, McCluggage, Taranto, Petrevski-Seton, Brodie.

 

[rusty08]

Really hope we stay away from Liam Ryan. Goes against turfing Green if we pick up a bloke who could only record a 10.1 beep. That's actually so piss poor it isn't funny and clearly shows this bloke does not want to work for an AFL opportunity. Let's not even get started on the potential off field issues we'd probably have to end up facing too.

First thing I thought of too mate. Whether his attitude is any different to greens, I'm not sure, but at a time when you want to be bringing your utmost, to run a 10 beep test is terrible. I'm sure the club would be well aware of this though.

 

[lionshine]

First thing I thought of too mate. Whether his attitude is any different to greens, I'm not sure, but at a time when you want to be bringing your utmost, to run a 10 beep test is terrible. I'm sure the club would be well aware of this though.

To be fair he tested quite well in all other categories and it was acknowledged that the players at the WA combine were not given adequate rest between the repeat sprints test and the beep test(I think it was only a 15 minute break). Even if he did have a bit more in the tank though with a score of 10-10.5 or whatever it was you'd think his ceiling when fully rested would still only be an 11 or so. Definitely a huge area needing improvement but nothing a couple of years in an AFL system can't fix. Super talented player.

 

[lionshine]

If we pick up anyone but highly touted midfield draftees, I will be bitterly disappointed.

Yeah I'm really hopeful Florent slides to pick 16. Getting Florent with pick 16 and Clarke with 21/22 in addition to an Ainsworth/Taranto/McCluggage at 3 would add to our young midfield stocks. I think a classy flanker like Witherden would be a good option as that 4th player we draft in that case particularly because he has the scope to move into the midfield. Florent and Clarke would compliment each other well. Clarke very much being the contested beast on the inside whilst Florent is more the smooth moving, classier type but he can find the footy and lay tackles with the best of them himself.

The issue is there aren't all that many midfielders rated around our picks 16-22. They are mainly a bunch of flankers in Berry, Logue, Hayward, Witherden, Rotham, CCox, Venables, Simpkin. Just about all of those guys have the potential to move into the midfield but they haven't really displayed that consistently at underage level(Berry perhaps being the closest to doing so) and some taller types in Marshall and English. Guys like Scharenberg, Drew and Graham appear to be rated more in the 25-40 range. That sort of only leaves Florent, SPP, Clarke and Gallucci as midfielders projected to go in our draft range and they may not be available at our picks.

 

[Len S]

Liam Ryan has only just turned 20, we may look on him as a medium term project (2018-20), get a couple of AFL system pre seasons under his belt and he could be anything. the proviso is that we have done extensive interviews and assessed his willingness to commit to a full time career and move to the other side of the country.

would be a huge call to take him at 21/22 though.

No way , is that the worst recorded beep test ?

 

[irel]

If we pick up anyone but highly touted midfield draftees, I will be bitterly disappointed.

As much as I agree with your sentiment it is very hard for me to move away from picking the best available with our first two picks, pick 3 and 16. Even if the best available are English, and Marshal. I would then be quite reconciled with picking best of kind for needs, ie: midfielders.

 

[M Malice]

do not want English or Marshall.

we have Hipwood, Schache, Close and Walker + Ballenden coming in next year, the only way i would consider a KPF is if they were a very highly rated selection ah la Patton, Boyd, Schache.

have never been a fan of taking rucks in the first 20 or so picks, (been burnt with Luenberger and Longer) would rather lower draft/rookie rucks or trade for mature age players. way too speculative and they don't reach their peak until 24/25 years of age.

IMO leave the KPP till the 2017 draft which is supposedly full of key position talent.