Universal Love 2016 Draft Discussion

[bmaurizio]

This makes the most sense to me, place an experience defender with some potential coaching ability with our young defenders. He can show them the art of defending at AFL level. You can almost have a player coach.

At worst, he will be cover if we run into some injuries with regards to our defenders, not placing pressure on our young tall defenders. Weitering may even need a 1 week rest and he could be a great 1 week cover.

Agree totally, furthermore whenever Alex Silvagni does play for the Seniors he'll surprise the natives hell bent on criticising and seeing negativity in some unexpected moves the club makes.
He a courageous tough reliable defender, a great mentor to the lads diwn back.

 

[harrisendblue]

Jake Bradley. We were very keen at the start of the year. I wonder what happened?

Unfortunately the kid cant play. Really did nothing as a mature ager at TAC level which was a worry.

In years past that knucklehead rogers would have wasted a pick on him because he would have run out of players to select.

 

[The Dominator7]

This makes the most sense to me, place an experience defender with some potential coaching ability with our young defenders. He can show them the art of defending at AFL level. You can almost have a player coach.

At worst, he will be cover if we run into some injuries with regards to our defenders, not placing pressure on our young tall defenders. Weitering may even need a 1 week rest and he could be a great 1 week cover.

Yeah, I was bemused when drafting him was predicted before the Rookie Draft. At my low informed level it looks a bit strange but the explanation around getting some experience in as support rings more true than the nepotism explanation.

I suppose what I am more sure about is that if SOS/Bolts rated someone higher, or needed someone more, then they would have selected them. They already proved that in this years draft with Kerr being taken after CP and TW and well after some wanted him in the 2nd round.

Maybe weighing everything up they just didn't rate some of the more popular names mentioned in other threads - Bunker, Olango, Scharenberg etc. - higher than Silvagni or Gallucci. From arms length not the decision I would have made, but I'm punting from my armchair...I might have come up with a similar outcome if it was my job to analyse the players talent/potential to death.

 

[Pafloyul]

Unfortunately the kid cant play. Really did nothing as a mature ager at TAC level which was a worry.

In years past that knucklehead rogers would have wasted a pick on him because he would have run out of players to select.

Are you trying to imply that we had narrow focus and thus a limited talent pool to choose from in those days? If so, I agree.

 

[harrisendblue]

Are you trying to imply that we had narrow focus and thus a limited talent pool to choose from in those days? If so, I agree.

yes and furthermore that he had no idea about which players to select or how to trade.

Im sure with crippa he read out the wrong number though i may not have any actual evidence of that.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Yeah, I was bemused when drafting him was predicted before the Rookie Draft. At my low informed level it looks a bit strange but the explanation around getting some experience in as support rings more true than the nepotism explanation.

I suppose what I am more sure about is that if SOS/Bolts rated someone higher, or needed someone more, then they would have selected them. They already proved that in this years draft with Kerr being taken after CP and TW and well after some wanted him in the 2nd round.

Maybe weighing everything up they just didn't rate some of the more popular names mentioned in other threads - Bunker, Olango, Scharenberg etc. - higher than Silvagni or Gallucci. From arms length not the decision I would have made, but I'm punting from my armchair...I might have come up with a similar outcome if it was my job to analyse the players talent/potential to death.

Talking to a recruiter and Scharenberg was slow, no attacking game, lateral/backwards kicks and movements. Last year I watched Scharenberg closely because my mate from SA loved him and I was not impresses. At first glance based on pure possession numbers you get excited but then watching him play, he is not that impressive. I had the same issue with Scheer this year, just struggled to see his AFL qualities.

 

[Jimmae]

So if he's good aerially, loves to pressure and chase; and has good, slick disposal, why wouldn't you keep him as a Forward? We are struggling to find goal kickers - and Sumner has been fairly competent in this area and It's not like we don't have enough defenders now - in fact we are spoil for choice! I think Docherty could play the small/medium defender role that Zach Tuohy left until Byrne is ready to return.

He is needed more in the forward line than defense - or at least until one of the new lads can take this spot from him.

The two key problems he has as a forward are that he doesn't seem to work well in a defensively-crowded forward 50-70, and he isn't great in front of goal (though he gets so few opportunities).

I think if his work rate improves he can push up to HF and really stretch teams with his abilities, but otherwise he's worth a trial in defence to see if he can close and rebound from there. Long term, with all the genuine small forwards we seem to be circling, some sort of midfield play needs to come into his kit bag at AFL level.

Talking to a recruiter and Scharenberg was slow, no attacking game, lateral/backwards kicks and movements. Last year I watched Scharenberg closely because my mate from SA loved him and I was not impresses. At first glance based on pure possession numbers you get excited but then watching him play, he is not that impressive. I had the same issue with Scheer this year, just struggled to see his AFL qualities.

At least with Scheer you were afraid of his marking ability up forward and what he can do with the football. Still slow though.

 

[Windhover]

Rubbish! The plausible answer is that we wanted an older experienced defender for a year and he was the one rated the most highly. If COS had not played reasonable footy and finished last year in good form your theory could be a possibility however that's not the case.

Yes it does sound like that and a complete waste of a well written post.

The logic behind the pick is sound in my opinion.

The argument that we wanted an older experienced defender fails at the first hurdle.

Last season (2016) we started with an experienced KPD (Jammo) who we lost very early in the piece. Those who played down back certainly held their own most weeks: W'ring, Rowe, Plowman and, when need be, White. All those are now a year older and, accept for Rowe and White, better for the year's experience.

Further, we have retained JGM as a rookie defender. He will be 1 year more experienced than he was in 2016.

Further, we have added Marchbank, who will give us further KPD options.

Finally, we have recruited MaCreadie, who might get a chance to play KPD next year.

If your "logic" is sound, the question has to be asked "Why do we need an older experienced defender next year when we go into 2017 (without AS) MUCH better provisioned for experienced KPDs than we had after Jammo went down, and when those KPDs largely held there own?"

 

[Jimmae]

The argument that we wanted an older experienced defender fails at the first hurdle.

Last season (2016) we started with an experienced KPD (Jammo) who we lost very early in the piece. Those who played down back certainly held their own most weeks: W'ring, Rowe, Plowman and, when need be, White. All those are now a year older and, accept for Rowe and White, better for the year's experience.

Further, we have retained JGM as a rookie defender. He will be 1 year more experienced than he was in 2016.

Further, we have added Marchbank, who will give us further KPD options.

Finally, we have recruited MaCreadie, who might get a chance to play KPD next year.

If your "logic" is sound, the question has to be asked "Why do we need an older experienced defender next year when we go into 2017 (without AS) MUCH better provisioned for experienced KPDs than we had after Jammo went down, and when those KPDs largely held there own?"

I think there's a strong reliance on a change to the rookie rules next year, which allows us to play whoever we want, whenever we want.

 

[Windhover]

Agree totally, furthermore whenever Alex Silvagni does play for the Seniors he'll surprise the natives hell bent on criticising and seeing negativity in some unexpected moves the club makes.
He a courageous tough reliable defender, a great mentor to the lads diwn back.

I don't disagree with your description of AS as an AFL footballer. It won't surprise me if he does well enough to get a regular game (although it would be the first time in his entire footy career). But is that what we want? Surely we want to get games into players who are going to be part of our back 6 for 10 years, not hold up that development by a place-holding player like AS.

If we wanted him as a mentor, get him as a backline coach. Otherwise I would hope we could back Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank etc to work things out on the field for themselves backed by our defensive coaches, Simmo and Docherty.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Perhaps the argument holds merit if Weitering plays forward.

 

[Windhover]

I think there's a strong reliance on a change to the rookie rules next year, which allows us to play whoever we want, whenever we want.

Perhaps the argument holds merit if Weitering plays forward.

In both cases the argument for selecting AS does not hold. We are into rebuild, not top up. AS is pure top up, a ready-to-go defender who will not be around when we are competing for a Flag, whether or not Weitering becomes a forward (and my bet is he won't and will not be groomed for it).

Rebuilding requires being brave. It does expose inexperienced players to potentially big defeats. But at year 2 of our rebuild, having gone hard - and well - on tall defenders first, we need to now give those guys every opportunity to learn and grow. Without place-holders please.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Nobody refutes like Windhover.

An absolute asset to this board.

 

[Broadside]

In both cases the argument for selecting AS does not hold. We are into rebuild, not top up. AS is pure top up, a ready-to-go defender who will not be around when we are competing for a Flag, whether or not Weitering becomes a forward (and my bet is he won't and will not be groomed for it).

Rebuilding requires being brave. It does expose inexperienced players to potentially big defeats. But at year 2 of our rebuild, having gone hard - and well - on tall defenders first, we need to now give those guys every opportunity to learn and grow. Without place-holders please.

if we want to develop our young players, we need a competitive development team, not one getting flogged every week. AS may enable us to be competitive in this grade which helps the young players build their skills and confidence before stepping up to AFL level. Come at me!

 

[Azul]

if we want to develop our young players, we need a competitive development team, not one getting flogged every week.

Our backline isn't getting flogged every week. We have the shittest forward line in the comp, and one of the worst midfields.

 

[Broadside]

Our backline isn't getting flogged every week. We have the shittest forward line in the comp, and one of the worst midfields.

I am referring to the VFL team, are you also? I see Alex Silvagni as a NB player. If that isn't his role, I got nuthin.

 

[Azul]

I am referring to the VFL team, are you also? I see Alex Silvagni as a NB player. If that isn't his role, I got nuthin.

well both.

We will have a mega tall NB squad next year, who currently sit outside of best 22: MacReadie, Marchbank, Glass-McCasker, Jaksch, Jones, McKay, Gorringe, Korcheck and C Curnow.

The VFL side wasn't exactly awash with smalls, now having delisted Whiley, Dick, Smith, Gowers, Viojo, Tutt. Their first strength midfield consists of Graham and some local league top-ups. A reason for getting flogged is in the guts.

Sorry but I'm struggling to see a 29yo player delisted by Freo having played more in the last 3 years in the WAFL than in a purple jumper as an asset.

 

[Jimmae]

In both cases the argument for selecting AS does not hold. We are into rebuild, not top up. AS is pure top up, a ready-to-go defender who will not be around when we are competing for a Flag, whether or not Weitering becomes a forward (and my bet is he won't and will not be groomed for it).

Rebuilding requires being brave. It does expose inexperienced players to potentially big defeats. But at year 2 of our rebuild, having gone hard - and well - on tall defenders first, we need to now give those guys every opportunity to learn and grow. Without place-holders please.

I think you'll find it's the Gallucci re-draft that makes less sense in this context.

As for the rest, I agree, but when I was against this I wasn't aware that it's a near-certainty we'll have no restrictions on selection of rookies in 2017. That changes things.

The problem for mine, comes in terms of a guy like Tony Olango, who has talent, but may not get much senior opportunity next year unless he cracks into a NEAFL squad. Not sure how we're expecting him to develop physically in that or the NTFL.

 

[harrisendblue]

The argument that we wanted an older experienced defender fails at the first hurdle.

Last season (2016) we started with an experienced KPD (Jammo) who we lost very early in the piece. Those who played down back certainly held their own most weeks: W'ring, Rowe, Plowman and, when need be, White. All those are now a year older and, accept for Rowe and White, better for the year's experience.

Further, we have retained JGM as a rookie defender. He will be 1 year more experienced than he was in 2016.

Further, we have added Marchbank, who will give us further KPD options.

Finally, we have recruited MaCreadie, who might get a chance to play KPD next year.

If your "logic" is sound, the question has to be asked "Why do we need an older experienced defender next year when we go into 2017 (without AS) MUCH better provisioned for experienced KPDs than we had after Jammo went down, and when those KPDs largely held there own?"

The only experienced true KPD we had was Rowe. White is a third tall at best. Relying on kids with 1 or 2 years experience is dangerous and very much in the old Melbourne model of developing players - ie they dont develop in the correct manner. What happens if Rowe gets injured?

Getting Alex is a safe no risk thing to do. if he plays then we have injuries and if he doesn't he then adds value to the NB's as an onfield mentor. He may even play and rowe goes forward either way he provides us with greater flexibility.

Don't forget Marchbank has only played six games, harrison 0 and weiters 20. Plowman has only had one full season so no they dont have enough experience.

 

[harrisendblue]

I don't disagree with your description of AS as an AFL footballer. It won't surprise me if he does well enough to get a regular game (although it would be the first time in his entire footy career). But is that what we want? Surely we want to get games into players who are going to be part of our back 6 for 10 years, not hold up that development by a place-holding player like AS.

If we wanted him as a mentor, get him as a backline coach. Otherwise I would hope we could back Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank etc to work things out on the field for themselves backed by our defensive coaches, Simmo and Docherty.

What your describing is the Melbourne model plenty of kids no real experience to guide and take on the big tasks. Its why GWS in their formative years picked up Thornton to help guide and develop. Guys like COS will if required help ease the load on our younger defenders.

Leaving them to work things out for themselves is akin to letting them wither on the vine. Its not the way to develop at any level let alone the AFL.

 

[ShanDog]

Can't imagine Alex Silvagni will be the nominated rookie or upgraded without an LTI to a defender. He'll be our Northern Blues key back and there for a 'break glass in case of emergency' situation.

No issues with a rookie spot being given to him, as much as I would have preferred to see a young kid there.

We may have a substantial number of key talls now, but the club must have assessed it as an area that needs experienced depth - the same reason we picked up Palmer for the midfield etc. Might not be a popular decision but a prudent one.

 

[Windhover]

I think you'll find it's the Gallucci re-draft that makes less sense in this context.

I don't. We thought Gallucci was worth a go last year. He got injured. We have recruited/traded in a whole bunch of potential small forwards (Lamb, Sumner, Pickett, Les Bois, Polson) but none (maybe Wright) is yet a proven AFL footballer. Who is to say Gallucci will not be the best of them? I don't know and I guess the MC want to give him a chance. That makes sense to me.

As for the rest, I agree, but when I was against this I wasn't aware that it's a near-certainty we'll have no restrictions on selection of rookies in 2017. That changes things.

Cheers for the agreement. I do not understand why you think being able to play rookies in 2017 would change things regarding AS. He still does not fit the age profile.

The problem for mine, comes in terms of a guy like Tony Olango, who has talent, but may not get much senior opportunity next year unless he cracks into a NEAFL squad. Not sure how we're expecting him to develop physically in that or the NTFL.

Exactly. AS may have only been pick 23 in the rookie draft. Who knows who we might have developed with that pick otherwise? There have been some damn good rookies and no doubt many potentially good players who never got the chance.

 

[gbatman]

More pace, how long have we been saying that? I guess it's hard to target one thing when you need everything. really gone hard this draft.

Built a backline with an ability to intercept and rebound. Now looks like we may have a midfield and forward line who can apply pressure and force turnovers. Our midfield can half win the ball and our forward line can't do a thing, if these come right we'll be a decent side again.

 

[GoBlues!]

In both cases the argument for selecting AS does not hold. We are into rebuild, not top up. AS is pure top up, a ready-to-go defender who will not be around when we are competing for a Flag, whether or not Weitering becomes a forward (and my bet is he won't and will not be groomed for it).

Rebuilding requires being brave. It does expose inexperienced players to potentially big defeats. But at year 2 of our rebuild, having gone hard - and well - on tall defenders first, we need to now give those guys every opportunity to learn and grow. Without place-holders please.

Yes but sometimes when you rebuild, you need to underpin some areas while the new foundation takes shape and the concrete hardens - as you would with rebuilding a house.

We've lost Jamison and Tuohy, AS has been brought in as the underpinning when required, allowing the permanent foundation players to take shape.

 

[HARKER]

Re. Alex Silvagni:

First thing that came to mind for me was; Is Sam Rowe ok?
Other than for that reason, the recruitment doesn't really make too much sense.
We want protection? We do that via the northern blues......unless, one of the young kpds, has definitely been earmarked as a forward.