Universal Love 2016 Draft Discussion

[BlueSherrin]

Remember when we would pick Warnock and Hampson over Jacobs? Yeeaaaah... it happens.

I'm only half Guilty ShanDog. I rated Jacobs above Warnock but Warnock had a ridiculous contract and we couldn't offload him but......here is where I'm guilty.....I rated Hampson above Jacobs. I was wrong oh so wrong. But if I had the call then both were staying and Warnock was going.


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[Chalky Blues]

Lappin was a beauty but maybe Lappin wasn't the best example so how about Jack Martin?
Totally agree with you're comment. Recruit well and show heart.
If you don't mind me asking Why don't you go to many games anymore?



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Same reason I don't play golf anymore I started a new business and had kids all at the same time which probably wasn't the smartest move but I'm here now so just dealing with it. On a positive note in last 5 years I've brought in 3 new Blues members into the world so fingers crossed by the time they are all at school the Blues will be killing it again.

 

[therubbernub]

He'll only play AFL if Rowe gets injured. And the club won't want to expose Marchbank and Weitering to the power forwards just yet.

For the last 4-5 years we have been under-performing due in no small way to the amount of injuries we have suffered. This has been in no small way due to our severe lack of depth. Depth that other clubs take for granted as they have not come from as deep a hole as we did following the draft penalties/elliot era. Then our hapless drafting record has done nothing to help us recover from it.
SOS has addressed our KPP depth vigorously and we now have a lot of young KPP player depth and there is a lot of talent there but not a lot of experience. Additionally there is some real flexibility with the players he has picked up so that players like Weitering, charlie, marchbank have been mooted to be able to play forward or in the case charlie ,midfield. I see AS as cheap insurance for the inevitable KPP injury, so that our structure doesnt fall to pieces and we are still able to play honest footy. Many on here have the idea that it is ok to keep losing whilst you are rebuilding, but at some stage there has to be a tipping point where a winning culture needs to be instilled, and I believe that BB and SOS are impatient and want a really good year this year. That is not to mean that they expect top 4 or anything like it, but I think they want us to compete fiercely against the top sides and be able to wine against the also rans. There is no bell that rings that all of a sudden signals that the rebuild is finished and the winning culture has arrived, it just happens. It wont happen at all if there is this defeatist "rebuilding phase"mentality pervading the club, it has to start with a no compromise attitude to development and culture. Ignoring our lack of KPP experience depth would be IMO compromising on the team structure and counterproductive to what BB is trying to achieve. He wants this year to be a year when all this young talent that he has secured, starts to strut their stuff and start building the confidence within themselves and the group, that they belong hopefully in the near future, in the top 8. As I said, there is no Bell that rings, it just starts to happen, but it wont happen unless we make it happen and we have to start with depth and structure and culture. Is that something we are cooking?

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Remember when we would pick Warnock and Hampson over Jacobs? Yeeaaaah... it happens.

This is seven years we're talking about!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I'm only half Guilty ShanDog. I rated Jacobs above Warnock but Warnock had a ridiculous contract and we couldn't offload him but......here is where I'm guilty.....I rated Hampson above Jacobs. I was wrong oh so wrong. But if I had the call then both were staying and Warnock was going.


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Did you ever consider the ruck coach situation in all of that?

 

[TheKITC]

I can't really cop people slagging the Silvagni pick because they will hate to see rookies taken after him 'killing it' at another club. The chances of a rookie (late ND pick for that matter too) pick even playing AFL let alone killing it are very remote. I know we saw some rookies get games last year with Papley probably the pick of the bunch, but it doesn't really happen all that often. For those still fapping over Scharenberg, he was overlooked by all clubs in both drafts. Enough said.

Our influx of draftees and young trades over the past couple of seasons certainly negates the need for a hail mary rookie because they might come good 1 time in 100. We needed something else.

Alex Silvagni is a known quantity and actually has played some pretty good footy recently. As SOS said, we've pruned back some (experienced) dead wood off our list recently, lost Jamison and Tuohy who were hardened, backline mainstays and replaced them with x amount of 18/19/20 year olds. Makes perfect sense to me and if he plays a handful of games over the next couple of years to protect our Macreadies, Weiterings, Marchbanks etc. then I am more than happy with that. If he shows the boys some tricks and tips he's learned in his years in the VFL/WAFL/AFL under Ross and next to McPharlin, Pavlich, Fyfe etc. I'm ok with that too. If he finds himself in good enough form to be a regular player i'll be ok with that too, shows the boys the benefits of putting in, being in good form and earning your spot.

 

[Carl Tone]

Could take a grab and loved a goal, I remember that mark of the year round 1 against the Scummers i was in the pocket right in line with perfect view of it

Might have been sitting the row in front of you.
Was a magical moment.

 

[F_therest]

So silvagni who averaged around seven or eight games a season for seven seasons and played behind the likes of the great zac Dawson is now leadership material? Haha

How does his injury issues prevent him from providing leadership exactly?
Even playing ability doesnt effect your leadership...i dont think you know what 'leadership' is.

 

[BlueSherrin]

Did you ever consider the ruck coach situation in all of that?

What?


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[thylacine60]

Could take a grab and loved a goal, I remember that mark of the year round 1 against the Scummers i was in the pocket right in line with perfect view of it

I was on the wing. He scared the poo out of a seagull chilling on top of the point post.

 

[thylacine60]

After the 2016 trades & drafts, which AFL clubs have the healthiest playing lists?

 

[KnobHead]

After the 2016 trades and drafts, which AFL clubs have the healthiest playing lists?

Sandringham Dragons

 

[Soapy V]

I really wanted to see him in Blue Harkers, I guess 2 years ain't that long

Let them develop him and then we get a kid ready to impact. Same with McLuggage

 

[BlueSherrin]

Same reason I don't play golf anymore I started a new business and had kids all at the same time which probably wasn't the smartest move but I'm here now so just dealing with it. On a positive note in last 5 years I've brought in 3 new Blues members into the world so fingers crossed by the time they are all at school the Blues will be killing it again.

In a similar predicament. We live rural and have only been to one game a year for the last six years. It is just too costly for a young family.
My young bloke is in grade 6 and he has almost jumped ship a couple of times. The thing that saved him from jumping ship was the fact we were at the game of A.Walker's famous mark and it was right in front of us. As the ball was coming into forward line I said to him "watch Walker" as I could see he was in a prime spot so both of us were watching Walker not the ball when he took it. I've never seen my young blokes face light up like it did at that moment and he still talks about it to this day and it gets a run on YouTube often.




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[cookie monster]

Rowe has had his own health problems to deal with, even recently. Not many know this. Our backline will be very young next year. Silvagni a more experienced head than Rowe. The recruitment makes a lot of sense.

 

[Windhover]

For the last 4-5 years we have been under-performing due in no small way to the amount of injuries we have suffered. This has been in no small way due to our severe lack of depth. Depth that other clubs take for granted as they have not come from as deep a hole as we did following the draft penalties/elliot era. Then our hapless drafting record has done nothing to help us recover from it.
SOS has addressed our KPP depth vigorously and we now have a lot of young KPP player depth and there is a lot of talent there but not a lot of experience. Additionally there is some real flexibility with the players he has picked up so that players like Weitering, charlie, marchbank have been mooted to be able to play forward or in the case charlie ,midfield. I see AS as cheap insurance for the inevitable KPP injury, so that our structure doesnt fall to pieces and we are still able to play honest footy.

You know we are rebuilding. Tick

You know we have suffered from injury-exposed "lack of depth". Well maybe.

So your solution to our chronic lack of depth is to recruit a player who won't be around when we are going to need that depth?????

Your explanation that AS is needed for "experience". BS
1. He only has 50 odd games experience anyway.
2. Rowe and White have way more experience in games played.
3. Plowman has not played many games (like AS) but 2017 will be his 5th year on an AFL list.
4. Marchbank will be into his 3rd season in 2017. He aint no baby even if he is, still, not 20 and played only 7 games.
4. W'ring needs experience? I don't think so, just give him games.

I would rather see our structure fall to pieces because say JGM or Macreadie coming into the side aren't up to it because then they and we KNOW where they/we need to improve to move up the ladder. In Watson's second game for us we were pitted against Dawes and Cloke at the MCG. The Pies kicked to whichever forward Jammo wasn't on (Thornton was on Leigh Brown) and had a picnic. If he could have learnt from the experience it would have been a great learning experience for Watson. He couldn't and was, eventually, moved on.

Many on here have the idea that it is ok to keep losing whilst you are rebuilding, but at some stage there has to be a tipping point where a winning culture needs to be instilled, and I believe that BB and SOS are impatient and want a really good year this year.

The sentiment underlining your statement is: "I don't care how we win, I just want to win."

It is very understandable.

But it is wrong. BB has quite rightly said "It is not about wins. It is about process".
The idea behind this is that wins will come if the process is right. Part of getting the process right is to NOT to take short-cuts to "success". Rebuilding means rebuilding.

You can only build a winning culture by not worrying about whether you are winning or not and only worrying about whether the team (and its players) are doing what you expect them to do. Players (and fans) who "need a win" for buy-in to the process are doing it wrong. For me, one of the most exciting things about 2016 was that we actually had so many wins despite and because we were not taking short-cuts. (I also got into fierce debate with BF posters who claimed our win against Geelong would be an important historic marker of our progress or some such. I maintained the win was irrelevant except that it showed our processes (game plan) was good enough to be competitive with a good side playing poorly).

Shoving AS into the side next year like a piece of sticky tape because a swathe of KPDs are injured may (conceivably but unlikely) help us win a game or two. So what? How is that going to help us long term? How is that going to teach Pickett that he sometimes needs to run back harder in defence and leap 3rd up to spoil? Or see McKay run back and fill the hole in defence in a last desperate 15 minutes etc? All things rebuilding teams need to learn.

That is not to mean that they expect top 4 or anything like it, but I think they want us to compete fiercely against the top sides and be able to win against the also rans.

I'm sure they want us to compete fiercely against all-comers, not just top sides. That will produce wins against good sides (like Geelong) and bad from time to time. But if we are serious about "rebuild" why should we care less for example that we lost to Ess in the last round or that we might lose against a diminished Hawks in 2017? We should only care about why we lost and how we can improve from that loss.

Otherwise our focus is NOT on rebuilding, it is on winning. Sure rebuilding and winning are not mutually exclusive. But only by focusing on rebuilding (and ignoring the wins and losses) are we going to get the long term success we crave.

There is no bell that rings that all of a sudden signals that the rebuild is finished and the winning culture has arrived, it just happens. It wont happen at all if there is this defeatist "rebuilding phase"mentality pervading the club, it has to start with a no compromise attitude to development and culture.

Hold that noble thought.

Ignoring our lack of KPP experience depth would be IMO compromising on the team structure and counterproductive to what BB is trying to achieve.

If we lack KPD experience depth (IMO a highly contestable assertion) then I would like our future KPDs - W'ring, Marchbank, Plowman, Jaksch, JGM and Macreadie - to prove it. Then we know we have to get rid of some or other of them. Sticky taping up the (supposed) lack of depth with AS will do NOTHING for us in the long term. It is a compromised attitude to development and thus a compromised attitude to culture.

So I very much hope AS has been recruited on the basis of nepotism and not for the reasons you suggest. If you are right then SOS has veered from the path we as a Club have set ourselves. Not seriously veered but I am calling it out all the same.

 

[thylacine60]

That sort of half comment will only get people thinking his cancer has returned. Really.

 

[therubbernub]

You know we are rebuilding. Tick

You know we have suffered from injury-exposed "lack of depth". Well maybe.

So your solution to our chronic lack of depth is to recruit a player who won't be around when we are going to need that depth?????

Your explanation that AS is needed for "experience". BS
1. He only has 50 odd games experience anyway.
2. Rowe and White have way more experience in games played.
3. Plowman has not played many games (like AS) but 2017 will be his 5th year on an AFL list.
4. Marchbank will be into his 3rd season in 2017. He aint no baby even if he is, still, not 20 and played only 7 games.
4. W'ring needs experience? I don't think so, just give him games.

I would rather see our structure fall to pieces because say JGM or Macreadie coming into the side aren't up to it because then they and we KNOW where they/we need to improve to move up the ladder. In Watson's second game for us we were pitted against Dawes and Cloke at the MCG. The Pies kicked to whichever forward Jammo wasn't on (Thornton was on Leigh Brown) and had a picnic. If he could have learnt from the experience it would have been a great learning experience for Watson. He couldn't and was, eventually, moved on.



The sentiment underlining your statement is: "I don't care how we win, I just want to win."

It is very understandable.

But it is wrong. BB has quite rightly said "It is not about wins. It is about process".
The idea behind this is that wins will come if the process is right. Part of getting the process right is to NOT to take short-cuts to "success". Rebuilding means rebuilding.

You can only build a winning culture by not worrying about whether you are winning or not and only worrying about whether the team (and its players) are doing what you expect them to do. Players (and fans) who "need a win" for buy-in to the process are doing it wrong. For me, one of the most exciting things about 2016 was that we actually had so many wins despite and because we were not taking short-cuts. (I also got into fierce debate with BF posters who claimed our win against Geelong would be an important historic marker of our progress or some such. I maintained the win was irrelevant except that it showed our processes (game plan) was good enough to be competitive with a good side playing poorly).

Shoving AS into the side next year like a piece of sticky tape because a swathe of KPDs are injured may (conceivably but unlikely) help us win a game or two. So what? How is that going to help us long term? How is that going to teach Pickett that he sometimes needs to run back harder in defence and leap 3rd up to spoil? Or see McKay run back and fill the hole in defence in a last desperate 15 minutes etc? All things rebuilding teams need to learn.



I'm sure they want us to compete fiercely against all-comers, not just top sides. That will produce wins against good sides (like Geelong) and bad from time to time. But if we are serious about "rebuild" why should we care less for example that we lost to Ess in the last round or that we might lose against a diminished Hawks in 2017? We should only care about why we lost and how we can improve from that loss.

Otherwise our focus is NOT on rebuilding, it is on winning. Sure rebuilding and winning are not mutually exclusive. But only by focusing on rebuilding (and ignoring the wins and losses) are we going to get the long term success we crave.



Hold that noble thought.



If we lack KPD experience depth (IMO a highly contestable assertion) then I would like our future KPDs - W'ring, Marchbank, Plowman, Jaksch, JGM and Macreadie - to prove it. Then we know we have to get rid of some or other of them. Sticky taping up the (supposed) lack of depth with AS will do NOTHING for us in the long term. It is a compromised attitude to development and thus a compromised attitude to culture.

So I very much hope AS has been recruited on the basis of nepotism and not for the reasons you suggest. If you are right then SOS has veered from the path we as a Club have set ourselves. Not seriously veered but I am calling it out all the same.

A.S was taken with our second R.D pick. You are carrying on like it was a second round ND pick FFS. What do you expect? I wont repeat my arguments which are different to yours. lets just say i dont agree with you and I dare say neither does SOS or BB.

 

[HBF]

Rowe has had his own health problems to deal with, even recently. Not many know this. Our backline will be very young next year. Silvagni a more experienced head than Rowe. The recruitment makes a lot of sense.

The longer i've had to think about it the more it makes sense.
We might even get a couple of years out of Silvagni if needed.

 

[Mondyboy]

I don't know why we are still arguing about AS. Was there truly another great kid who we could have gone with that ticked the boxes such as left foot, great kicking and speed? AS is clearly a stop gap. And frankly I think he's a better player than some of those on our list.

But at the end of the day he was the second pick in the Rookie draft. Seriously what do we have to lose picking him?


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[Mondyboy]

And let's not forget that we traded for Liam Jones. We lost draft picks to get him. That was a calamity. If AS never plays a game or is rubbish in a couple of games and never puts on the jumper again we're still well ahead.


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[thylacine60]

How quickly we forget how far back we are coming from. We are not going to get everything right - footy doesn't work that way. Not all of this year's green shoots are going to strike. Don't make me quote the bible......fell on fertile ground....something.....thistles......withered.......other holy shit.....

 

[ferrisb]

We certainly have walked through the valley of the shadow of death in recent years....

 

[ferrisb]

Jeez, just remembered the rest of the quote ... Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me...

Ahem, that sounds quite inappropriate!

 

[Jimmae]

How quickly we forget how far back we are coming from. We are not going to get everything right - footy doesn't work that way. Not all of this year's green shoots are going to strike. Don't make me quote the bible......fell on fertile ground....something.....thistles......withered.......other holy shit.....

Conversely, I can't imagine we're going to have such rotten luck with key injuries this year.