Not here to defend SOS but you really should have beaten the Dogs and the Premiership was all but yours.
Would have the story been slightly different then?
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Not here to defend SOS but you really should have beaten the Dogs and the Premiership was all but yours.
Would have the story been slightly different then?
Apex36
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Why would it have been? Even if they'd won the premiership this year the multitude of failed early picks would be exactly the same.
Who would have cared for the failure of certain picks though?
It wouldn't have even come into question.....how and why would have it done so?
Apex36
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Seriously? You think that nobody would criticize SOS for his massive amount of stuff ups if GWS had won this year?Who would have cared for the failure of certain picks though?
It wouldn't have even come into question.....how and why would have it done so?
Please. SOS has had his critics for years now. GWS winning the premiership wouldn't stop people pointing out his numerous fails, and they won't stop pointing them out next year when GWS inevitably win their first flag.
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No because Carlton would still be a GWS reserves dumping ground.
Fyfe2Shenton
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Does anyone know whether Powell-Pepper was invited to the draft?
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I guess it goes to show not all first rounders succeed hey.
That's not saying SOS has a clue and he will be judged on what he does at Carlton for me.
At the moment he's just picking up his previous picks...bit like a dog eating his vomit
Not really, Nev Stibbart chose the 17 year olds and you and I could have picked the really early ones. SOS made some terrible selections.
Hawthorn took Dowler & Thorp with their #6, in consecutive years, but no-one is complaining after 4 Premierships now, are they?
It's all relative, isn't it?
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lol wtf pretty strong unnecessary outburst.
While GWS did receive a bunch of concessions, SOS has still created a list widely seem as the most talented in the competition...compare it to what Clayton has done at GC...your attack seems unwarranted.
Yes there were some that didn't work out like O'Rourke, Plowman, Pickett etc but when you have that good a team and so many draft picks, this was always going to happen you can't squeeze them all into best 22 and he could afford to be more 'speculative' or 'reach' according to team needs.
And it's early days, but so far he's done very well for Carlton in last year's draft and in the last 2 trade periods.
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Wow mate you're looking at this so literally...
You do realise at the end of the day he's still largely created a list seen as the best in the comp?
Yes some of the high picks failed...but that was always going to happen given how many high picks they have...can't all fit in the 22.
And when your team is that good, you can 'reach' for players and pick for needs, rather than 'best available'.
Learn to put some context in situations.
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In terms of drafting, which ppl are focusing on in this discussion, he's only had 1 draft in which he's picked up Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cuningham & SOS jnr.
Too early to tell but they all look promising and if someone has a go at him for that then they're an idiot.
He got the GWS players for unders really and we desperately need more young talent so i can't see how you can criticise him for that...why wouldn't you go for the talented GWS kids seeing as they have an over abundance of them and can get them at a discounted rate? It's the obvious play.
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Happy with Billy Smedts and Rhys Palmer eh? I hope they did a good medical on Pickett's foot.
SOS has a lot to prove yet that he knows what he is doing.
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Thread derailed again.
Apex36
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Both were taken before Wright arrived. It's a little redundant to criticize the Hawks list manager for two blunders he had nothing to do with don't you think? And fwiw, Wright is not immune from criticism. He's an excellent opposition talent identifier, but just average in regards to drafting.
If you want to put things in to context, literally any recruiter in the comp could have built a list as good or better than SOS did with the concessions GWS received over the first few years, and most of them wouldn't have had the extraordinary amount of fails that he had with early selections.
It's cool that Carlton supporters want him to be good. It's the same as Collingwood fans want Buckley to be a good coach. Unfortunately the reality is different.
sr36
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GWS have an excellent list, but Carlton fans must be a bit concerned about the percentage of early picks that SOS burnt.
And a lot of those "burnt" picks were high risk/high reward kids which he was able to reach for due to the strength of the list, or players who have spent a lot of their time injured and thus unable to break in to a bloody strong team. What about his time at Carlton makes you think that he isn't doing a great job ???
sr36
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What made guys like O'Rourke, Plowman, Jaksch, high risk/high reward kids. They don't appear to have anything special about them. They just appear to be mediocre talents that were inexplicably taken very high.
IIRC O'Rourke was seen as the best outside mid in his draft (and they had a lot of quality inside mids already) and Plowman was a quality rebounding defender (again a need at the time). Not sure about Jaksch but he did seem to get quality in return for him .........
Also don't forget that they have been working with an extended squad too so they were forced to reduce their list size so clubs knew that they needed to let players go, thus getting under for some players (e.g. offloading Ahern for a packet of chips due to his recent ACL iirc which will keep him out for 12 months)
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sr36
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ORourke and Plowman were taken at 2 and 3. In retrospect it's inexplicable. Neither of them appear to have outstanding attributes. They weren't high risk high reward, they were just really bad selections.
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"U wot m8?"
While he did not fo great GWS had far more advantages than GC
WTF! SOS wasn't your recruiter. That was Paul Brodie. SOS was your list manager. And he helped build you one of the deepest and most balanced lists in the comp. So much so, you can have highly prospective young talent walk out the door every other year and still look set for a decade of dominance. If you want to see what could have eventuated with someone else at the helm, just take a look at Gold Coast and Scott Clayton.
No one nails every pick. That's just the way it is. And for GWS there were certianly players that the recruitment team reached for at certain picks, because they were about building list depth across the field from scratch, not just selecting the best player available at every pick.
I'm staggered some GWS supporters aren't more grateful for the list he left them.
Not so many that explains the difference in where these two clubs are at. Different strategies in how they built their lists from scratch and GWS walked away with the fruits of the better strategy and execution.
Honestly, those cherry picking draft selections that didn't come good are not being realistic. You want outside players or a certain type of defender to balance your list and are building from scratch, you make a reach and take your shot. Some will pay off. Some won't. As SOS keeps saying to Blues supporters, it's not about individual trades or draft picks; it's about the overall picture and you're deluding yourself if you think the recruiting team at GWS didn't do a fairly good job when looking at the overall picture.
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Some don't have a clear understanding of SOS. Two very different situations, GWS and Carlton.
At GWS he had massive concessions. Unprecedented with one exception - GC. By that comparison, only one year apart, with essentially the same concessions, he is looking like a very good list manager.
At Carlton he has had little to work with. No extra picks and not a lot of trade bait. So he has taken a two prong strategy - early picks, high value trades, and speculative picks:
- The early picks will speak for themselves in time but I think most Carlton people are happy with them (McKay, Curnow C etc)
- The high value trades (Plowman, Marchbank) will shore up defence for 10 years (big tick)
- The speculative picks (Sumner, Pickett, Phillips etc) have been high picks with injuries. If we get a 50% hit rate on these guys we'll be very happy
- The deal makers (Kerridge, Lamb, Palmer etc) are guys who we've taken to get other deals done (whether to gain picks or help GWS relieve salary). Anything more than 2-3 years which (time to draft talent) is a bonus.
It's a good strategy.
With this years draft it means we've picked up 10 players over the last 2 years who'll be top 22 players in 5 years' time. Add Cripps, Byrne, Doc.
Next 2 years add 2-3 FAs, plus keep going to the draft and the list is almost completely rebuilt. Not sure what more SOS can do.
At GWS he had massive concessions. Unprecedented with one exception - GC. By that comparison, only one year apart, with essentially the same concessions, he is looking like a very good list manager.
At Carlton he has had little to work with. No extra picks and not a lot of trade bait. So he has taken a two prong strategy - early picks, high value trades, and speculative picks:
- The early picks will speak for themselves in time but I think most Carlton people are happy with them (McKay, Curnow C etc)
- The high value trades (Plowman, Marchbank) will shore up defence for 10 years (big tick)
- The speculative picks (Sumner, Pickett, Phillips etc) have been high picks with injuries. If we get a 50% hit rate on these guys we'll be very happy
- The deal makers (Kerridge, Lamb, Palmer etc) are guys who we've taken to get other deals done (whether to gain picks or help GWS relieve salary). Anything more than 2-3 years which (time to draft talent) is a bonus.
It's a good strategy.
With this years draft it means we've picked up 10 players over the last 2 years who'll be top 22 players in 5 years' time. Add Cripps, Byrne, Doc.
Next 2 years add 2-3 FAs, plus keep going to the draft and the list is almost completely rebuilt. Not sure what more SOS can do.
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