2016 Draft Rumours

[harrisendblue]

Gubby was responsible for this, not SOS.

oh please. gubby is a deal maker . SOS was the list manager and had responsibility for their drafting strategy. Gubby understood his talents and got SOS to the GWS.

 

[harrisendblue]

Wow areuok?

Anyway I'm not writing an essay, SOS is a squib of a recruiter, anyone could've made that GWS team with the picks he had

oh well that confirms it. uve nothing to say and clearly a dummy. im all good and thanks for asking

 

[F_therest]

Both were taken before Wright arrived. It's a little redundant to criticize the Hawks list manager for two blunders he had nothing to do with don't you think? And fwiw, Wright is not immune from criticism. He's an excellent opposition talent identifier, but just average in regards to drafting.

If you want to put things in to context, literally any recruiter in the comp could have built a list as good or better than SOS did with the concessions GWS received over the first few years, and most of them wouldn't have had the extraordinary amount of fails that he had with early selections.
It's cool that Carlton supporters want him to be good. It's the same as Collingwood fans want Buckley to be a good coach. Unfortunately the reality is different.

At worst then he is unproven. How you can say he is crap based on a few failed high draft picks is beyond me, when at the end of the day he's created a super list.

You state that if any other recruiter etc were in charge instead they'd have done much better or the same...but that is pure speculation, not fact. Also Clayton had many concessions at GC and has done poorly. He didn't have quite as many as GWS but still, look at where the teams sit on the ladder.

 

[Flandersss]

oh well that confirms it. uve nothing to say and clearly a dummy. im all good and thanks for asking

Learn how to spell.

 

[Orange Agent]

oh please. gubby is a deal maker . SOS was the list manager and had responsibility for their drafting strategy. Gubby understood his talents and got SOS to the GWS.

Gubby did the trades that kept the high picks rolling in. SOS picked the players with them and he overpayed and missed better players with a lot of them.

 

[sr36]

so you saw them when they were kids and compared them to others? just cherry picking to suit your argument. there are various reasons why players dont come on however the two main drivers for the real high end picks are injuries and opportunities. in the main the majority of kids who have moved from gws have had both.

No I didn't see them as kids. I doubt the guy who claimed that most of Sos's unsuccesful picks were the result of a high risk/high reward strategy saw them as kids either. O'Rourke and Plowman look very vanilla. The appear to be the opposite of high risk/high reward.

FWIW, I think SOS's drafting at the Blues looks good so far and his recruiting was excellent at GWS, but I think his drafting was poor at GWS considering the picks they had. You can't just say they've got a good list therefore he's a gun drafter.He actually drafted less than half the players who represented GWS in the finals. And in terms of influence to the team, I'd say that it was miles less than half, which is pretty surprising considering the picks he's had at his disposal. Here's the GWS Preliminary Final team:

GWS GIANTS

• Adam Tomlinson, Drafted by SOS
  
  
• Phil Davis, - Recruited
  
  
• Nick Haynes - Drafted by SOS

• Heath Shaw, -Recruited
  
  
• Joel Patfull, - Recruited
  
  
• Ryan Griffen - Recruited

• Zac Williams, - Drafted by SOS
  
• Stephen Coniglio - Drafted by SOS
  
  
• Tom Scully - Recruited

• Josh Kelly, Drafted by SOS
  
• Jeremy Cameron, Preselected before SOS
  
  
• Jonathon Patton - Drafted by SOS

• Rhys Palmer, Recruited
  
  
• Rory Lobb, - Drafted by SOS
  
• Devon Smith - Drafted by SOS

• Shane Mumford, Recruited
  
  
• Toby Greene, - Drafted by SOS
  
  
• Callan Ward - Recruited

• Jacob Hopper, Academy kid - after SOS
  
  
• Dylan Shiel, - Preselected before SOS
  
  
• Lachie Whitfield, - Drafted by SOS
  
• Nathan Wilson - Prelisted before SOS

Have a look at these two years of drafting. If any big Victorian club did this, they'd be a laughing stock. Pies supporters are questioning Hine because he in 2013 he had Pick 6 and 10 and haven't gotten anything out of these picks - both of these misses have been the result of injury and one of them still may end up being a good player for us.

2012
1 Lachie Whitfield GWS 72
2 Jonathan O'Rourke Hawthorn 9
3 Lachlan Plowman Carlton 20
12 Kristian Jaksch Carlton 7


2014
4 Jarrod Pickett Carlton 0
6 Caleb Marchbank Carlton 7
7 Paul Ahern North Melbourne 0

 

[harrisendblue]

So instead of actually checking to see whether I'm telling the truth you just label me a troll? You are such a child. Just because someone criticises your beloved Blues (which in this case I didn't) you automatically label them a troll. I couldn't give two shits about SOS's past or what kind of person he is. I think he's well below average as a junior talent identifier. FWIW though, I think he's a relatively smart strategist in terms of actual list management.

i label u a troll because u make statements without backing them up. the highlight is an example. that is just a throw away line that ultimately cant be substantiated. the fact is he is a list manager and uses others for the identification process. he has ultimate responsibility for bringing in picks & players with ultimate responsibility for the final decisions. Based on his GWS time he has had more successes than failures. additionally his first year drafting with us was, to date, a solid effort.

 

[Apex36]

At worst then he is unproven. How you can say he is crap based on a few failed high draft picks is beyond me, when at the end of the day he's created a super list.

You state that if any other recruiter etc were in charge instead they'd have done much better or the same...but that is pure speculation, not fact. Also Clayton had many concessions at GC and has done poorly. He didn't have quite as many as GWS but still, look at where the teams sit on the ladder.

A few? I think you're understating the amount of high end fails GWS had in his time there. In terms of Clayton, yeah he's done poorly too, but the last couple of years have been incredibly hard to judge with the amount of best 22 players who have gone down injured. At the end of 2014 they were genuinely looking like playing finals 2015 and beyond. Neither SOS or Clayton are much chop in terms of talent identification imo, although as I said earlier, I think SOS is a better strategist in terms of list management. He's traded cleverly over the past couple of seasons to attain high draft picks required for Carlton's rebuild, but I'm just not that confident that he'll use them well at the draft, and I'm dubious that any of the GWS cheapies will miraculously come good by moving to Carlton.

 

[harrisendblue]

Gubby did the trades that kept the high picks rolling in. SOS picked the players with them and he overpayed and missed better players with a lot of them.

err incorrect. gubby only had that respobsility for that after sos left - for example the treloar trade was one of gubbies.

well u should be grateful that he got the majority of them right otherwise u would be in the same boat as the suns.

 

[Apex36]

i label u a troll because u make statements without backing them up. the highlight is an example. that is just a throw away line that ultimately cant be substantiated. the fact is he is a list manager and uses others for the identification process. he has ultimate responsibility for bringing in picks & players with ultimate responsibility for the final decisions. Based on his GWS time he has had more successes than failures. additionally his first year drafting with us was, to date, a solid effort.

Can't be substantiated? Read the post above yours. SOS's drafting record speaks for itself. I could present all the evidence in the world to you and you still wouldn't accept it and call me a troll just like you have in previous threads where you ridiculously wanted me to present you with the sources source of information relating to Delidio's salary.

Seriously, if you can't handle the opinions of others without calling them trolls then maybe BF isn't the place for you.

 

[SickQwon]

Andre's stink bomb worked beautifully.

Well done Andre

Only problem is it gave us 3 pages of crap in what should be an interesting thread.

He's a known troll. I'm surprise people still take the bait...

 

[coryne]

Well we didn't use the high draft pick on Ahern in the first place.

Are you saying that Ahern was a reach at #7 (iirc he was considered a bargain there ....). Was SOS supposed to know that he was going to do an ACL at the end of a year when the GWS needed to reduce their squad numbers ??? ............

 

[Orange Agent]

err incorrect. gubby only had that respobsility for that after sos left - for example the treloar trade was one of gubbies.

well u should be grateful that he got the majority of them right otherwise u would be in the same boat as the suns.

Gubby was GM of football, the list manager reported directly to him, the GM made the final calls.

Have a read. http://www.aflca.com.au/uploads/media/GWS_List_Manager_-_PD.pdf

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Are you saying that Ahern was a reach at #7 (iirc he was considered a bargain there ....). Was SOS supposed to know that he was going to do an ACL at the end of a year when the GWS needed to reduce their squad numbers ??? ............

No I'm saying that praising Silvagni for picking up young players on the cheap loses its impact when you consider he wasted the GWS picks on them in the first place.

 

[HBF]

My dog could draft just as good as SOS with the picks he had.

You should ask him if he would have taken Petracca ahead of McCartin?

 

[Flandersss]

You should ask him if he would have taken Petracca ahead of McCartin?

*she

& why would she? Petracca belongs in a piggery

 

[HBF]

*she

& why would she? Petracca belongs in a piggery

Or Billings over Bontempelli.....

 

[coryne]

No I'm saying that praising Silvagni for picking up young players on the cheap loses its impact when you consider he wasted the GWS picks on them in the first place.

And most of those "wasted" selections left due to a lack of exposure due to either injury or not being able to break in to a bloody strong side. Those who left with exposed form fetched a premium for the GWS. So again how was SOS supposed to know which players would be injured in the future ??? .........

 

[x_les_x]

Well didnt take long for this thread to go back to shit

Going back to the title freo to pick up cameron late/rookie

 

[Flandersss]

Or Billings over Bontempelli.....

Or Ball over Judd

We can play these games all night lol or better yet waste my time posting 100k posts on a footy forum

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Suddenly picking up young, first-round picks for peanuts is a bad thing.

Not sure Geelong's first rounder will be peanuts, probably be a top 8 pick. Potentially 5-6.

 

[wayToGo_]

Could we get an ETA on anything worth reading appearing in this thread?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Could we get an ETA on anything worth reading appearing in this thread?

Yeah someone should publish the schedule that the clubs go by to leak their drafting information

 

[Eski3]

Well didnt take long for this thread to go back to shit

Going back to the title freo to pick up cameron late/rookie

Lachlan Cameron? His profile makes it sound like he'd be a good fit. Reliable source on that one?

 

[harrisendblue]

Gubby was GM of football, the list manager reported directly to him, the GM made the final calls.

Have a read. http://www.aflca.com.au/uploads/media/GWS_List_Manager_-_PD.pdf

Your assuming that is the actual final job description by the way. Even with that doubt I cant seem to find anything that states the GM had the final call, maybe i missed it.

I never actually stated he doesn't report to the GM. The role description states the list manager playing the leading role in assembling the GWS list.

You should also understand the bit about appraisal within that document. It ultimately meant that Gubby reviewed the performance of SOS and kept him in the position - which clearly indicates they were satisfied with how he was assembling the list.

I also remember the Giants were very upset when SOS announced he was leaving.