Hot Topic 2016 DRAFT

[IanW]

Appreciate the input.
Any rumblings that you're hearing about the GWS4?

For what it's worth, the rumour is Marchbank doesnt know if he wants to stay or move. Tomlinson is regarded as gone. Stewart isnt getting opportunities. WHE and Steele have a bunch of players ahead of them in the pecking order.

It'll come down to personal terms and offers of playing opportunities.

 

[TooBlue14]

Understand but 3 would get us that elite mid

I reckon 6 may get it also

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It'd be a lot more likely you'll end up with the Geelong or GWS first rounder, rather than the Collingwood one.

Apart from that, yeah, none of that would surprise me.

Big difference between #5 and #17 of course.

Really going to depend on the names and the contracts we have to take on.

 

[The Facepainter]

I reckon 6 may get it also

Quite possibly unless SOS wants a particular player

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Gibbs is injury prone now? Thanks for letting me know. Oh and he'll be "too old" at 29 as well. Haha

Where did I say he's injury prone now? I said in three years time he won't have the same impact on games and will be injury prone as most 30 year olds are.

Next time before you start laughing, make sure you at least read what is being said because it will be HIGHLY unlikely that at 30 (that's right, not 29) he will have the same impact on games and our season as he is today. Also, he will most likely become more injury prone as his body ages.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Where did I say he's injury prone now? I said in three years time he won't have the same impact on games and will be injury prone as most 30 year olds are.

Next time before you start laughing, make sure you at least read what is being said because it will be HIGHLY unlikely that at 30 (that's right, not 29) he will have the same impact on games and our season as he is today. Also, he will most likely become more injury prone as his body ages.

... yeah nah, don't follow that logic. Feel free to provide evidence to support your assumption that all players, even those that have no history of injury, become injury prone AT 30. Because I don't really see that as a prominent trend.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

... yeah nah, don't follow that logic. Feel free to provide evidence to support your assumption that all players, even those that have no history of injury, become injury prone AT 30. Because I don't really see that as a prominent trend.

Again, didn't say that ALL players become injury prone at 30+, I said it's likely. The evidence is the fact that as you age, your body takes longer to recover and the wear and tear of playing AFL football week in week out eventually takes its toll. This is why we see older players getting 'rested' during the season.

 

[mediumsizered]

Where did I say he's injury prone now? I said in three years time he won't have the same impact on games and will be injury prone as most 30 year olds are.

Like Kade Simpson, Sam Mitchell, Shaun Burgoyne, Nick Riewoldt, Brent Harvey, Jordan Lewis, Jarrad McVeigh, Heath Grundy, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Andrew Mackie, Heath Shaw, Matthew Boyd, Scott Thompson (of the Crows variety), Eddie Betts (turns 30 at the end of this year) etc etc etc.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Like Kade Simpson, Sam Mitchell, Shaun Burgoyne, Nick Riewoldt, Brent Harvey, Jordan Lewis, Jarrad McVeigh, Heath Grundy, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Andrew Mackie, Heath Shaw, Matthew Boyd, Scott Thompson (of the Crows variety), Eddie Betts (turns 30 at the end of this year) etc etc etc.

Most of those players are 32+ as well, and still EXCELLENT contributors playing more than 20games a season in the most part.

I expect Gibbs to play till around 33/34 and I think he'll play 300+ for Carlton.

 

[djw1952]

Mmmm. DVR.......2 out of three ain't bad?

Should be given a senior chance this year to see how he goes before thinking of chopping him from the list, or rookie him at least. He may just need time to get used to the pressure of AFL.

 

[HBF]

For what it's worth, the rumour is Marchbank doesnt know if he wants to stay or move. Tomlinson is regarded as gone. Stewart isnt getting opportunities. WHE and Steele have a bunch of players ahead of them in the pecking order.

It'll come down to personal terms and offers of playing opportunities.

That's going to be the issue with GWS. With all the talent they are accumulating, the issue will be keeping them and the obvious salary cap issues.

 

[IanW]

That's going to be the issue with GWS. With all the talent they are accumulating, the issue will be keeping them and the obvious salary cap issues.

Have a look at the playing list in this game - its the one where an outclassed side ran, tackled well, scragged, stayed in it for longer than they should have and then lost by 10 goals.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2012/6/carl-v-gws

Twelve of the players on the right hand side of that list are still with us, and that includes most of our good ones.

Something happened in 2012 that bound that talent together, and they pretty much stayed. Interestingly, the 2013-4 talent seems much less inclined to stay - I think they noticed the bond between the kids who went through the ice baths in wheelie bins at Blacktown and the team meetings in the back room of the Rooty Hill RSL, and felt themselves outsiders to that.

Therefore, GWS deal, and - if everyone goes through things the right way - we're easy to deal with, as St Kilda, Essendon, Port Adelaide and of course Carlton can attest.

On the other hand, if teams treat us like early Fremantle, then it's different (hi Doggies ! Thanks for paying Griffen's heavily frontloaded year for a fat spud in Tom Boyd who now has a guaranteed million a year! Hello Freo. Pity McCarthy's both contracted and a required player. Next time, offer us what we need, which is experienced players who can help us in our flag window, not two picks everyone expects to be in the 14-18 range).

The Tay Adams deal falls into the first category, and the Adam Treloar trade is in the second.

Right now, we're turning the 2013-14 drafts into Academy picks, because we seem to be doing something right, and have turned a first rounder every couple of years area into a WTFBBQ of talent that exceeds either SA or WA as football nurseries. Well, either that or biased flogs in the media are over-rating 17 year olds again.

However, kids are hard-eyed professionals these days, or they hire managers to be hard-eyed professionals for them. They want a career in footy. This means if they show anything in their first two years, they want to be paid, and they want to play firsts to be in the shop window.

We also showed some of the slower and more 'special needs' clubs exactly how to use the PSD as a threat, with the Mumford/Lamb transaction (TLDR : We bent Sydney over twice in succession).

Avoiding that means kids need to be under contract, which means they need pay rises, and the knowledge we will keep their career going, or they walk at the end of their first contract, when their value isnt very high, and that turns you into Brisbane.

So, basically, there's a process. Kids show something, get extended, and we trade them out to a club where they'll both get paid better and will play firsts. Ideally, it'll be a club we arent competing for a flag with, too, which is part of why you havent seen a lot of GWS kids at Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn.

And this is too long, but it's why I think you'll see Tomlinson, WHE and Steele at Carlton next year.

 

[thylacine60]

Just a fabbo assessment right there, IanW.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Right now, we're turning the 2013-14 drafts into Academy picks, because we seem to be doing something right

If by doing something right, you mean obtaining an existing football region as an academy zone, then yes, congrats.

I will be more impressed when you start developing talent in non football heart lands.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Have a look at the playing list in this game - its the one where an outclassed side ran, tackled well, scragged, stayed in it for longer than they should have and then lost by 10 goals.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2012/6/carl-v-gws

Twelve of the players on the right hand side of that list are still with us, and that includes most of our good ones.

Something happened in 2012 that bound that talent together, and they pretty much stayed. Interestingly, the 2013-4 talent seems much less inclined to stay - I think they noticed the bond between the kids who went through the ice baths in wheelie bins at Blacktown and the team meetings in the back room of the Rooty Hill RSL, and felt themselves outsiders to that.

Therefore, GWS deal, and - if everyone goes through things the right way - we're easy to deal with, as St Kilda, Essendon, Port Adelaide and of course Carlton can attest.

On the other hand, if teams treat us like early Fremantle, then it's different (hi Doggies ! Thanks for paying Griffen's heavily frontloaded year for a fat spud in Tom Boyd who now has a guaranteed million a year! Hello Freo. Pity McCarthy's both contracted and a required player. Next time, offer us what we need, which is experienced players who can help us in our flag window, not two picks everyone expects to be in the 14-18 range).

The Tay Adams deal falls into the first category, and the Adam Treloar trade is in the second.

Right now, we're turning the 2013-14 drafts into Academy picks, because we seem to be doing something right, and have turned a first rounder every couple of years area into a WTFBBQ of talent that exceeds either SA or WA as football nurseries. Well, either that or biased flogs in the media are over-rating 17 year olds again.

However, kids are hard-eyed professionals these days, or they hire managers to be hard-eyed professionals for them. They want a career in footy. This means if they show anything in their first two years, they want to be paid, and they want to play firsts to be in the shop window.

We also showed some of the slower and more 'special needs' clubs exactly how to use the PSD as a threat, with the Mumford/Lamb transaction (TLDR : We bent Sydney over twice in succession).

Avoiding that means kids need to be under contract, which means they need pay rises, and the knowledge we will keep their career going, or they walk at the end of their first contract, when their value isnt very high, and that turns you into Brisbane.

So, basically, there's a process. Kids show something, get extended, and we trade them out to a club where they'll both get paid better and will play firsts. Ideally, it'll be a club we arent competing for a flag with, too, which is part of why you havent seen a lot of GWS kids at Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn.

And this is too long, but it's why I think you'll see Tomlinson, WHE and Steele at Carlton next year.

How dare you dispel the rumours that GWS fans know nothing about footy!

 

[HARKER]

Kerr has been good.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Kerr has been good.

Very good, fix his goal kicking and he could be super dangerous.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Have a look at the playing list in this game - its the one where an outclassed side ran, tackled well, scragged, stayed in it for longer than they should have and then lost by 10 goals.

I thought you were talking about last weekend and being cruel.

 

[Burgers45]

Kerr has been good.

Really impressed me. Pity there's no player/grandson draft policy.

 

[IanW]

If by doing something right, you mean obtaining an existing football region as an academy zone, then yes, congrats.

I will be more impressed when you start developing talent in non football heart lands.

Someone's been making the mistake of believing Eddie's lies.

The Riverina has been a shit region for recruiting footballers.

This is a list of first round picks from it (copied from the Fear and Stupidity thread on the GWS board).

2000 - Kozzy went number 2, Albury.
2001 - Duck Eggs
2002 - Hamish Macintosh 9, Lavington.
2003 - Duck Eggs
2004 - Duck Eggs
2005 - Duck Eggs
2006 - Duck Eggs
2007 - Duck Eggs
2008 - Duck Eggs
2009 - Duck Eggs
2010 - Duck Eggs
2011 - Duck Eggs
2012 - Duck Eggs
2013 - Duck Eggs
2014 - Duck Eggs
2015 - Hopper / Kennedy / Himmelberg

 

[LemmingMaster]

Someone's been making the mistake of believing Eddie's lies.

The Riverina has been a shit region for recruiting footballers.

This is a list of first round picks from it (copied from the Fear and Stupidity thread on the GWS board).

2000 - Kozzy went number 2, Albury.
2001 - Duck Eggs
2002 - Hamish Macintosh 9, Lavington.
2003 - Duck Eggs
2004 - Duck Eggs
2005 - Duck Eggs
2006 - Duck Eggs
2007 - Duck Eggs
2008 - Duck Eggs
2009 - Duck Eggs
2010 - Duck Eggs
2011 - Duck Eggs
2012 - Duck Eggs
2013 - Duck Eggs
2014 - Duck Eggs
2015 - Hopper / Kennedy / Himmelberg

The Academies have been implemented to develop talent in NON AFL regions. The Riverina region kids would be playing football even if you did not have an academy system.
Once again, when you start developing talent in places like Western Sydney, then I will be impressed.
GWS on the whole have spent very little time and even effort in developing talent in that region.

Collingwood/Eddie is not the only club that disagree with the concept.

When you add in this years group of Riverina products you can see it is complete BS.

Don't confuse me disliking GWS having the Riverina region with my thoughts on academies.

I don't expect any GWS fan in the right mind wanting to lose that region.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Someone's been making the mistake of believing Eddie's lies.

The Riverina has been a shit region for recruiting footballers.

This is a list of first round picks from it (copied from the Fear and Stupidity thread on the GWS board).

2000 - Kozzy went number 2, Albury.
2001 - Duck Eggs
2002 - Hamish Macintosh 9, Lavington.
2003 - Duck Eggs
2004 - Duck Eggs
2005 - Duck Eggs
2006 - Duck Eggs
2007 - Duck Eggs
2008 - Duck Eggs
2009 - Duck Eggs
2010 - Duck Eggs
2011 - Duck Eggs
2012 - Duck Eggs
2013 - Duck Eggs
2014 - Duck Eggs
2015 - Hopper / Kennedy / Himmelberg

Cherry picking data by locking the terms to first rounders.

 

[IanW]

The Academies have been implemented to develop talent in NON AFL regions.

Before we go any further, what does 'Group 9' mean to you ?

 

[Blue and Silver]

In 2012 (GWS’s first season) what were the players that had come out of the GWS zone? They would have Tex Walker, Tom Hawkins, Luke Breust, Isaac Smith, Kieren Jack, Brandon Jack, Matthew Suckling, Justin Koschitzke — it just goes on and on.

Such a dearth of talent in the Riverina

 

[LemmingMaster]

Someone's been making the mistake of believing Eddie's lies.

The Riverina has been a shit region for recruiting footballers.

This is a list of first round picks from it (copied from the Fear and Stupidity thread on the GWS board).

2000 - Kozzy went number 2, Albury.
2001 - Duck Eggs
2002 - Hamish Macintosh 9, Lavington.
2003 - Duck Eggs
2004 - Duck Eggs
2005 - Duck Eggs
2006 - Duck Eggs
2007 - Duck Eggs
2008 - Duck Eggs
2009 - Duck Eggs
2010 - Duck Eggs
2011 - Duck Eggs
2012 - Duck Eggs
2013 - Duck Eggs
2014 - Duck Eggs
2015 - Hopper / Kennedy / Himmelberg

I'll just add some more names to your list.

Carey, Paul Kelly, Luke Bruest, Daniher's, Tom Hawkins, Brownless, Shane Crawford, Leo Barry.... Those are just some modern day names that have come from that region. Now there may be times when there are DUCK EGGS, but the region has been producing AFL talent for years WITHOUT GWS spending a cent.

Just imagine if this happens every 3-5 years you get access to
Year 1 - Carey
Year 4 - Hawkins
Year 7 - Crawford
Year 10 - Kelly

I am sure that could set your club up nicely for years to come. In the first two years you're getting access to potentially 2-5 first round prospects from a region that you've spent virtually nothing on. Heck, you had no idea of one of the talents from that region, otherwise you would have had Marshall as well!