Strategy 2016 Forward Line

[Bobby_]

This is so absurdly negative....we finished 2nd in the H&A and I bet we finish top four again this season.

You talk about a midfield devoid of hardness but we were 2nd for contested possessions and 4th for clearances. Hardness wasn't really a problem, I get that it was off the back of Joel Selwood and Dangerfield but you fail to see where improvement might come from.

Scott Selwood: Missed all of pre-season and half the season. He should improve now that he's healthy coming into pre-season
Sam Menegola: Missed 10 weeks with a knee and after his first taste of AFL should improve.
Nakia Cockatoo: Missed 6 weeks with a knee and as a 3rd year player should naturally improve

I'm expecting these guys to be a part of the midfield mix and I think they add hardness. I don't see why Blicavs and Guthrie are mentioned in a negative light either. Both are decent inside players, Blicavs was 12th in the league for tackles. He's a little ungainly but gets his hands dirty. Scott Selwood has been a 5 clearances a game player and league leading tackler. We've got our issues but toughness wasn't really one of them last season and should only be better.

You really have no clue, honestly Dan. For you to sit here and honestly say our mifield is not devoid of hardness simply due to the fact our contested numbers spiked (hmmm . . . . . . and I wonder why that happened). We are one of the softest and most easily intimidated football sides in the competition these days. Opposition teams know it which is why they played a lot of off the ball stuff. Just look at the way Hawthorn were sniping us recently.We just have so much brilliance in the form of Menzel, Motlop, Stanley, Dangerfield, McCarthy or Selwood that we can stay in games through sheer acts of creativity alone where other sides cannot. And when I say 'soft' I am not talking about tackles or contested possessions (again, largely due to Dangerfield's inclusion) I am talking soft as in mentally soft as we have seen from most of this group over the last 4-5 years in September. Blicavs' finals performances have been nothing short of pathetic. Come finals time, he goes from a dynamic utility to David Mensch and unable to get out of 1st gear.

 

[candiehappy]

Menengola took Caddys spot in midfield. He kicked more goals and won the ball more. The Age even said that Menengola or GHS could replace Caddy and do a good job

Menengola didn't get selected ahead of Caddy and take his spot.

 

[DanA]

You really have no clue, honestly Dan. For you to sit here and honestly say our mifield is not devoid of hardness simply due to the fact our contested numbers spiked (hmmm . . . . . . and I wonder why that happened). We are one of the softest and most easily intimidated football sides in the competition these days. Opposition teams know it which is why they played a lot of off the ball stuff. Just look at the way Hawthorn were sniping us recently.We just have so much brilliance in the form of Menzel, Motlop, Stanley, Dangerfield, McCarthy or Selwood that we can stay in games through sheer acts of creativity alone where other sides cannot. And when I say 'soft' I am not talking about tackles or contested possessions (again, largely due to Dangerfield's inclusion) I am talking soft as in mentally soft as we have seen from most of this group over the last 4-5 years in September. Blicavs' finals performances have been nothing short of pathetic. Come finals time, he goes from a dynamic utility to David Mensch and unable to get out of 1st gear.

You just make stuff up to suit you're negative agenda. None of it bears true in any sort of closer analysis. Our midfield is not soft in any way shape of form. Dangerfield is not soft, Joel Selwood is not soft, Scott Selwood is not soft and neither is Menegola. These are the four guys I expect to carry majority of the load next season and are mentally tough guys.

4-5 years of bad results in September IMO have come because of bad team structures and 2016 is the first one that IMO falls on Scott's head. Other years we just haven't had the cattle to be competitive in terms of ruck men and midfielders but this year we had everything and Scott royally screwed it up playing Henderson, Hawkins, Blicavs, Smith, Stanley, Taylor, Lonergan and Kolodjashnij. It was too tall and got us ripped to shreds with Sydney dominating across HF/HB lines, we got torched by running players who ran rings around our ridiculously tall team filled with players that can provide enough pressure at ground level.

 

[DanA]

Menengola didn't get selected ahead of Caddy and take his spot.

In terms of attending centre bounces, yes he did.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

You really have no clue, honestly Dan. For you to sit here and honestly say our mifield is not devoid of hardness simply due to the fact our contested numbers spiked (hmmm . . . . . . and I wonder why that happened). We are one of the softest and most easily intimidated football sides in the competition these days. Opposition teams know it which is why they played a lot of off the ball stuff. Just look at the way Hawthorn were sniping us recently.We just have so much brilliance in the form of Menzel, Motlop, Stanley, Dangerfield, McCarthy or Selwood that we can stay in games through sheer acts of creativity alone where other sides cannot. And when I say 'soft' I am not talking about tackles or contested possessions (again, largely due to Dangerfield's inclusion) I am talking soft as in mentally soft as we have seen from most of this group over the last 4-5 years in September. Blicavs' finals performances have been nothing short of pathetic. Come finals time, he goes from a dynamic utility to David Mensch and unable to get out of 1st gear.

We had 72 inside 50s against supposedly the hardest team on a night where we were soundly beaten-our ability to win the ball in a contest is not a problem. Our lack of run from the back half lack of skilled disposal by foot going inside 50 and the lack of efficiency of conversion from our forwards are massive issues.

 

[DanA]

We had 72 inside 50s against supposedly the hardest team on a night where we were soundly beaten-our ability to win the ball in a contest is not a problem. Our lack of run from the back half lack of skilled disposal by foot going inside 50 and the lack of efficiency of conversion from our forwards are massive issues.

That's my view as well. We don't need to defend better or be harder at the contest we need to become more efficient moving the ball.

The additions of Stewart, Touhy, Parfitt and Narkle all to my mind fit that agenda. If we can get more out of Motlop and Duncan, maybe play Guthrie further up the ground and bring back Thurlow there's a lot of reasons to think we can be better moving the ball.

I just hope Scott is mindful of playing too many talls. It been something he's done too often throughout his coaching tenure IMO.

 

[candiehappy]

play Guthrie further up the ground

#guthrieintheguts

 

[Partridge]

You just make stuff up to suit you're negative agenda. None of it bears true in any sort of closer analysis. Our midfield is not soft in any way shape of form. Dangerfield is not soft, Joel Selwood is not soft, Scott Selwood is not soft and neither is Menegola. These are the four guys I expect to carry majority of the load next season and are mentally tough guys.

Reasonable comment about Joel Selwood and Dangerfield, they've had years of top performances, and importantly they performed well in September. Not at all convinced about the other two, least of all that they've somehow catapulted everyone else. They've still got to prove they're up to it when the pressure it at its fiercest. Last we saw they weren't.

I agree completely with you about playing too many talls in the team, but to me it would be a mistake to think that's the only reason we lost. We had a lot of players get exposed against Sydney, and not just the tall guys.

 

[Seeds]

I don't think he has too at all. I would just bite the bullet and drop Lonergan. He should be in the team on talent but I'm not compromising the team structure to fit him in.

Is Taylor a better defender than lonergan these days? I'm not sure he is.

 

[year of the cat]

Is Taylor a better defender than lonergan these days? I'm not sure he is.

Taylor's last couple of years have been highlighted by several excellent performances throughout the h&a and many very mediocre ones. For a player that was terrifically consistent in his high level from really 2009-2014 it's been a fairly significant drop off. Whether it's a sign of age or more a mental issue I'm not sure. But some of his poorer games have seen uncharacteristic clangers both in disposal and also with fumbling.

Maybe it is time to reinvigorate him with a move up forward? Not just for a quarter when a game is all but over but experiment with a more permanent move?

 

[DanA]

Reasonable comment about Joel Selwood and Dangerfield, they've had years of top performances, and importantly they performed well in September. Not at all convinced about the other two, least of all that they've somehow catapulted everyone else. They've still got to prove they're up to it when the pressure it at its fiercest. Last we saw they weren't.

I agree completely with you about playing too many talls in the team, but to me it would be a mistake to think that's the only reason we lost. We had a lot of players get exposed against Sydney, and not just the tall guys.

Well Scott Selwood has been a 5 clearance a game player in previous seasons and topped the league in tackling. He's not exactly a soft touch and while plenty of players were exposed I think we could have done a lot better as the Bulldogs did playing a smaller team.

Is Taylor a better defender than lonergan these days? I'm not sure he is.

I think he has but my overriding point is somebody needs to be dropped whether it's Lonergan or the vice captain.

 

[Partridge]

Is Taylor a better defender than lonergan these days? I'm not sure he is.

Not based on last September. I thought Lonergan was one of the very few who performed well in both games. He was miles better than Taylor against Sydney.

 

[bulletproof]

Maybe it is time to reinvigorate him with a move up forward? Not just for a quarter when a game is all but over but experiment with a more permanent move?

Personally don't mind the idea, our most thrilling football of the year was that last quarter v Richmond (yes I know the opposition was poor). Our forward line was so open and mobile and Taylor played a big part in that. Taylor reads the ball very well as a forward and has a very different approach to Hawkins.

My main concern is we already losing one All Australian defender, would be a risk to make it two. Would the backline stand up?

Either way, I think Taylor mentally would benefit from a move.

 

[year of the cat]

Personally don't mind the idea, our most thrilling football of the year was that last quarter v Richmond (yes I know the opposition was poor). Our forward line was so open and mobile and Taylor played a big part in that. Taylor reads the ball very well as a forward and has a very different approach to Hawkins.

My main concern is we already losing one All Australian defender, would be a risk to make it two. Would the backline stand up?

Either way, I think Taylor mentally would benefit from a move.

I think the mental aspect shouldn't be underestimated. He just looked to me like a player that needed a fresh challenge these last two years. It's not like he's a complete nong either when played up forward too.

It will certainly be a very new look backline next year in any case. The risk is that it's just too destabilising moving Taylor forward as you suggest. But it maybe worth a crack.

 

[Seeds]

Well Scott Selwood has been a 5 clearance a game player in previous seasons and topped the league in tackling. He's not exactly a soft touch and while plenty of players were exposed I think we could have done a lot better as the Bulldogs did playing a smaller team.




I think he has but my overriding point is somebody needs to be dropped whether it's Lonergan or the vice captain.

True. I just ain't sure lonergan should be the one. For some reason many assume it's him despite his form.

 

[DanA]

True. I just ain't sure lonergan should be the one. For some reason many assume it's him despite his form.

Nothings set in stone, all players have to preform but Harry being the vice captain, two years younger and dual All Australian probably has as much rope as anyone.

 

[Seeds]

Nothings set in stone, all players have to preform but Harry being the vice captain, two years younger and dual All Australian probably has as much rope as anyone.

As a defender that rope is long gone if it's solely between him and lonergan.

 

[DangerIsLove]

Keep Taylor down Back
Could Lonergan work up forward

 

[DangerIsLove]

Look I want to play Taylor forward but do you guys trust a backline of: Thurlow Lonergan Kolodjashnij, Stewart, Henderson and Thuoy with Ruggles on the Interchange

 

[DanA]

Look I want to play Taylor forward but do you guys trust a backline of: Thurlow Lonergan Kolodjashnij, Stewart, Henderson and Thuoy with Ruggles on the Interchange

Yeah I would.

I just don't want an extra tall in the forwardline.

 

[Seeds]

Yeah I would.

I just don't want an extra tall in the forwardline.

We currently have one. You don't want two? Why? Every other great team has had atleast two.

 

[Seeds]

Look I want to play Taylor forward but do you guys trust a backline of: Thurlow Lonergan Kolodjashnij, Stewart, Henderson and Thuoy with Ruggles on the Interchange

That defence looks pretty good to me. Can also potentially add Bews into that mix. The forwards and mids/rucks are more of a concern.

 

[Cataholic]

That defence looks pretty good to me. Can also potentially add Bews into that mix. The forwards and mids/rucks are more of a concern.

Agree here.

Our defence looks to remain a strong cornerstone, but getting the mix and chemistry right in the middle and F50 would seem much harder.

Is Abbot a chance to get a run in the seniors? Seems ready made.......

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Not based on last September. I thought Lonergan was one of the very few who performed well in both games. He was miles better than Taylor against Sydney.

Taylor played the sydney game with a broken hand though which needs to be factored in.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Look I want to play Taylor forward but do you guys trust a backline of: Thurlow Lonergan Kolodjashnij, Stewart, Henderson and Thuoy with Ruggles on the Interchange

Yes.