Strategy 2016 Forward Line

[ChookNorris]

For talent it's tremendous. The issue is four of the six can't chase.

And of the two that can, only one does it consistently.

 

[MoggsCreek]

This talk about Bartel as a defensive forward is strange the guy played unaccountable uncontested football floating across half back all of last season and suddenly will have to be completely accountable, I'd rather GHS in that role he gets more contested possessions is a good mark and goal sneak and is young so will develop in the role.

Yeah I don't know if he can be a real defensive-pressuring forward, but definitely can find room for him up forward. He is a great mark and very smart, so as a forward he would demand the attention of a good defender. He is also smart enough to be able to drag his good defender into spots where they cannot be effective. I think this would be the role he would play if he was in our forward line.

However, the problem with that is I don't know if he would work with all of Menzel, Hawkins and Clark in the lineup, as a lot of teams get strong rebound out of defence and none of those 4 are really well equipped to provide pressure. Murdoch, Gregson, McCarthy, Cockatoo would probably be more valuable up forward than Bartel, even if they are not as accomplished footballers, because they can (or have the potential to) be more accountable with their acceleration.

If Clark and Menzel are unavailable I'd be more comfortable having Bartel in the forward line, as I feel there would be less chance of us getting exposed.

 

[you pick one]

I doubt that Bartel is capable of catching anyone now. That's the problem.

He is still a dog catcher it seems and would be interesting to see what role he had the last two game v the Bull Flogs where he had 15 and 11 tackles respectively, way above his average.

 

[cynical]

I'd have Hawkins Vardy Menzel as the primarily marking forwards
Caddy/Selwood/Dangerfield/Duncan as difficult to match up on resting mids
Lang and Gregson to provide pressure
Murdoch/Cockatoo/Motlop to have stints forward

Bartel doesn't play as Menzel has taken his spot

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Yeah I don't know if he can be a real defensive-pressuring forward, but definitely can find room for him up forward. He is a great mark and very smart, so as a forward he would demand the attention of a good defender. He is also smart enough to be able to drag his good defender into spots where they cannot be effective. I think this would be the role he would play if he was in our forward line.

However, the problem with that is I don't know if he would work with all of Menzel, Hawkins and Clark in the lineup, as a lot of teams get strong rebound out of defence and none of those 4 are really well equipped to provide pressure. Murdoch, Gregson, McCarthy, Cockatoo would probably be more valuable up forward than Bartel, even if they are not as accomplished footballers, because they can (or have the potential to) be more accountable with their acceleration.

If Clark and Menzel are unavailable I'd be more comfortable having Bartel in the forward line, as I feel there would be less chance of us getting exposed.

I strongly disagree that Menzel isn't capable of providing any forward line pressure. Infact, I think that he's actually really good at it.

 

[manboob]

I think in all honesty Bartel will probably roll through the midfield and a bit up forward but not much. Bartel was in pretty solid form when he wasn't injured last year. I see him and Caddy filling a role of big bodied midfielder.

 

[MoggsCreek]

I strongly disagree that Menzel isn't capable of providing any forward line pressure. Infact, I think that he's actually really good at it.

Yeah I hope so, I guess I'm just worried after so long out of the game and with any lingering knee pain he has that it could be challenging for him to repeatedly chase. I'm just having so much trouble imagining him into our 2016 team after all those reco's, I won't be satisfied until I see him run out on Easter Monday against the Hawks. Or at least see heaps of pics of him in preseason training

 

[manboob]

I'd be happy for Menz just to have a bit of a SJ role. Make trouble for the opposition and let everyone else clean up your mess

 

[Partridge]

I strongly disagree that Menzel isn't capable of providing any forward line pressure. Infact, I think that he's actually really good at it.

From a very close vantage point in round 23, it looked like he couldn't chase at all. Once the ball was 5 metres away he was a witches hat.

 

[Matthew Jelley]

I would like to see something like this

Player 1 Hawkins Player 3
Player 4 Vardy Player 6

Player 1 = Menzel Bartel Caddy Selwood Dangerfield. menzel would own this position and rotate with the others through the midfield as a secondary deep marking option and some goal sense fot opportunistic goals.

Hawkins = keep him deep for the long option when player 1 draws the other defender out or to create long leads of his own when space is available.

Player 3 = Stanley Smith Clark, resting ruckman to provide another tall option to stretch defenses while also providing a rest. Stanley and Clark especially can push up half forward to create an option and leave space for hawkins.

Vardy - Should be given 1st crack at CHF, has good mobility to lead up the ground and a good kick for goal when in range. Form/injuries permitting this could be Clarks spot and Vardy also capable of filling the player 3 role. Henderson also a viable option pending team balance and who is available

Player 4 & 6 = Gregson Lang Cockatoo Murdoch Duncan Guthrie Motlop Smedts. Want these players linking up from wing to half forward with speed and then following the ball in to crumb and lock the ball inside. Several options here to rotate on the wings and a pocket at times if we need to make the forward line smaller to counter a tall defense.

A good mix of options here with some different game plans. Plenty of players that can rotate through mid and be dangerous up forward which shows our growing midfield depth.

 

[Frappe]

I think having Bartel play as a defensive forward/tagging the best hbf would benefit the team immensely.

Teams waltz out of our forward line way too easily. Would be good to have Jimmy play the old Rooke role stopping teams run out of our fwd 50 whilst snagging a sausage or 2.

I think in all honesty Bartel will probably roll through the midfield and a bit up forward but not much. Bartel was in pretty solid form when he wasn't injured last year. I see him and Caddy filling a role of big bodied midfielder.

Tend to agree. We can't just play him up forward as midfielders need a rest. I think he has something to offer as an on-baller, albeit in our second- tier.

 

[meto]

From a very close vantage point in round 23, it looked like he couldn't chase at all. Once the ball was 5 metres away he was a witches hat.

If the ball was in dispute he may have been waiting on the outside, and a 5metre start is rarely made up by a tackler but I think it was "just time on the park" last year for Menz.
I'm very sceptical of his mobility after 4 reco's myself, but with a full pre-season how he moves in the NAB Cup and early games will tell what we want to know. Personally I think 3 reco's should be the limit.
Besides that though an able bodied Menzel would be like another Stevie J for our forwardline, l just hope he is still able.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

From a very close vantage point in round 23, it looked like he couldn't chase at all. Once the ball was 5 metres away he was a witches hat.

Yeah but to be fair he was coming off the back of his first AFL game in 4 years and it was easy to see that he was flat for that game.

I don't think that it's fair to use that game as a reference point heading into 2016. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some doubt but I'm confident that he is capable of giving us more defensively than what he gave us in that match.

 

[Seeds]

From a very close vantage point in round 23, it looked like he couldn't chase at all. Once the ball was 5 metres away he was a witches hat.

He was clearly very proppy that game. Can seriously run when fit but will he be fit? Still unlikely in my book. Menzel is still only a bonus. Would not be counting on him to be a major fixture next year despite his talent.

 

[Jeff76]

**** Vardy Jimmy
Menz Hawk Gregson

 

[evolutionbaby]

With better personnel and improvement the objective has to be to move the ball quickly. I'm confident Hawk can beat any defender one on one with quick delivery. Think he is capable of kicking 70+ if this happens. Stanley and Menzel to assist. Vardy or Clark to play CHF with Gregson on one flank and Motlop/Dangerfield to change on the other.

 

[supahoops]

HF Dangerfield Clark Duncan

F Selwood Hawkins Motlop

 

[Cronin]

HF Dangerfield Clark Duncan

F Selwood Hawkins Motlop

Is this when we're up by 10 goals?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Is this when we're up by 10 goals?

Give them one quarter and we will be!

 

[supahoops]

Is this when we're up by 10 goals?

This'll have us up by 10 goals..

So long as we can sort out our clearance work

 

[Cronin]

This'll have us up by 10 goals..

So long as we can sort out our clearance work

That's what I'm worried about

 

[you pick one]

HF Dangerfield Clark Duncan

F Selwood Hawkins Motlop

You need to stipulate your Selwoods now.

 

[Bobby_]

Unfortunately for all us Cat fans, I suspect we are going to witness are very top heavy and rather one dimensional forward line again next year.
All these big blokes we have acquired in recent seasons . . . somehow, someway, the coaches are going to squeeze them in. I would have loved to see a forward line comprised of only Hawkins and one other agile/athletic tall coupled with a host of lightning quick rovers at the base of the pack.

I think back to the 80's and 90's where we had arguably the finest forward line setup of all. Stoneham/Exell, Ablett, Brownless, Scott, Cameron, & Lindner.
Great blend of speed, marking prowess and creativity.
Game has changed since then but philosophy still applies.
We were never too tall, nor too slow. Lindner and Ablett greatly attributed to this due to their shorter stature yet exceptional strength in the air.

Menzel and Kersten are both quick and solid overhead. Particularly Menzel who is very similar to Lindner in many ways. Hawkins is like Brownless and then we have Vardy who could definitely switch between two positions during a game just as Stoneham did playing in ruck/forward/back in his day.

I struggle to see how Hawkins, Clark, Vardy all function together. That is not even including Stanley who will be lurking forward of center while Smith is rucking.

 

[meto]

Unfortunately for all us Cat fans, I suspect we are going to witness are very top heavy and rather one dimensional forward line again next year.
All these big blokes we have acquired in recent seasons . . . somehow, someway, the coaches are going to squeeze them in. I would have loved to see a forward line comprised of only Hawkins and one other agile/athletic tall coupled with a host of lightning quick rovers at the base of the pack.

I think back to the 80's and 90's where we had arguably the finest forward line setup of all. Stoneham/Exell, Ablett, Brownless, Scott, Cameron, & Lindner.
Great blend of speed, marking prowess and creativity.
Game has changed since then but philosophy still applies.
We were never too tall, nor too slow. Lindner and Ablett greatly attributed to this due to their shorter stature yet exceptional strength in the air.

Menzel and Kersten are both quick and solid overhead. Particularly Menzel who is very similar to Lindner in many ways. Hawkins is like Brownless and then we have Vardy who could definitely switch between two positions during a game just as Stoneham did playing in ruck/forward/back in his day.

I struggle to see how Hawkins, Clark, Vardy all function together. That is not even including Stanley who will be lurking forward of center while Smith is rucking.

We run a slow forward in Hawkins, that doesn't mean the others are the same, we need 2 or 3 marking targets, this allows for 3 or 4 smalls which is plenty if they're good enough.
That's the problem, our smalls haven't been good enough and we've relied on mids to kick their goals.
Lang, Cockatoo, Gregson and possibly McCarthy (whoever is playing high) need to become more scoreboard effective and bring better and more defensive pressure.
It's our smalls who let us down not the talls. Stop making excuses for the smalls.

 

[Jon Douglas]

Very hard to pick the starting forward line round 1 2016.

This is because we just do not know a lot about some players - how they are really travelling - especially during and after the pre-season.

Will Clark be ok to go and where will he play ? Will Menzel's knees stand up and how quickly he can get back into the form people want to see after being out for nearly 4 seasons ? Gregson had a very good first season and we expect he will be better for the 20 odd games he played and for another pre-season. But sometimes players have a so-so second season. How much will he progress over the season ?

Then we have the CHF debate - Clark v Vardy. I think because he has played more senior footy and is more of a proven AFL player that Clark will get the gig first up. Vardy will get his turn at CHF and perhaps a few games as second ruck. This will allow him to develop into a senior player over time and quite a few absences. But if Clark cannot play - then Vardy becomes first choice at CHF.

I thought Clark may do some first ruck duties but with Zac Smith coming to GFC - that seems less likely now.

Who plays on the other HFF and FP ? I favour Motlop now as more of a winger. He likes to run and the wing should give him plenty of opportunities to run. As long as he is prepared to run, chase and tackle - he could be a seriously good mover of the ball for us next season. Given this preference I would have Cocky on the HFF and Caddy in the other FP.

It makes us pretty inexperienced in the forward half but we will have tow huge men in Hawkins and Clark to be marking targets - and with back from Menzel and Caddy - both good above their heads. Caddy is becoming a better tackler and seems to like a goal. I like his prospects down forward say 50 % of the time (with the rest playing as a mid).

That forward line would give us height, marking power, run and some very good leg speed with Gregson and Cocky (both could become very good tackling and harassing small forwards IMO).

But this is the best case scenario IMO. As Clark is a bit of an unknown, as is Menzel. I expect Gregson and Cocky to improve, but that has yet to happen.

So it is hard to predict the forward line set up - but the good news is we have some decent back up this season - in the forward line and the midfield.

In the VFL we will have Kersten, McCarthy (hopefully - please be so), perhaps Lang (who could play predominantly as a small forward), Bates, Vardy, Smedts (prefer him to be tried up forward) - maybe even Murdoch. Surely some of these players will get a few senior games next season. If you play well you stay in - and I think positions will be hard fought for unlike in the past because of injuries and the fact we had so many older star players who would be automatic best 22 selection. Now there are more positions more open and good form can see you promoted.

But I like the blend of the experience, size and marking power of Hawkins and Clark with the two mid sized players who can take a mark and yet be as effective on the ground - as Menzel and Caddy are - then with a sprinkle of pure leg speed of Gregson and Cocky (they could be excitement machines in a few years time). Just looks to me to be quite balanced line up just as long as Gregson, Cocky and Menzel are playing well enough to hold their positions.