Strategy 2016 Forward Line

[iameviljez]

Sydney have McGlynn and now Heeney. I don't know about you but Heeney looks to be one of the most exciting young players in the competition.
Your right about Richmond, apart from Lloyd, they have never really had a damaging small forward. Not since the Nathan Brown days.
They may have realized and addressed this issue in the off season and went about acquiring Chris Yarran who is more than capable of playing small forward on a permanent basis and booting 30+ goals.

McGlynn was a good small forward, but hardly got on the park last year and hasn't reproduced the form from his 2011-2012 heyday. Still young though. I agree Heeney is an out-and-out star in the making, but he's more goalkicking midfielder material.

True about Yarran. I agree with you, by the way, that have a goalkicking small forward pack is a massive weapon to have in your arsenal (and served us very well in glory years). That said, with Gregson, Menzel and McCarthy, there have been attempts to build one... it's just that two have been perma-injured (and we're not sure if McCarthy might be good enough), and Gregson needs a few years yet.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Haven't you heard, he does things that only Cyril can do.

Delicious

 

[iameviljez]

Here are the non-key forward goalkickers from each club for 2015 that kicked 20 or more:

View attachment 223885

Essendon, Gold Coast, GWS and St Kilda each had zero.

Sydney - Adam Goodes a non-key forward?

 

[iameviljez]

I'd take no interest in the opinion of the author of that article. He has Cyril Rioli as Hawthorn's best forward.

Because 28 goal assists and 42 goals aren't an excellent return from 24 games? Throw in 4 to 5 tackles as well.

I know we like to talk down Rioli on this board, mostly because of the Hawthorn connection and the constant Rioli/Ablett comparisons in days gone by (surely that one is now settled), but he is still the best small forward in the competition along with Eddie Betts (and, if he keeps it up for another year or two, Robbie Gray). At the end of the day, I'd absolutely love to have him in hoops and unlike much of the rest of the poo'n'wee brigade, he actually seems to be a classy member of humanity too.

 

[Partridge]

Because 28 goal assists and 42 goals aren't an excellent return from 24 games? Throw in 4 to 5 tackles as well.

I know we like to talk down Rioli on this board, mostly because of the Hawthorn connection and the constant Rioli/Ablett comparisons in days gone by (surely that one is now settled), but he is still the best small forward in the competition along with Eddie Betts (and, if he keeps it up for another year or two, Robbie Gray). At the end of the day, I'd absolutely love to have him in hoops and unlike much of the rest of the poo'n'wee brigade, he actually seems to be a classy member of humanity too.

He was incredibly, amazingly overrated for a good chunk of his career. Probably the first 4-5 years. But I thought he was far more consistent last year.

 

[catempire]

Sydney - Adam Goodes a non-key forward?

Arguable I guess but with Franklin and Tippett the main targets he doesn't tend to play as a key. Not really the point of the table though.

 

[catempire]

He was incredibly, amazingly overrated for a good chunk of his career. Probably the first 4-5 years. But I thought he was far more consistent last year.

Spot on.

 

[Bobby_]

McGlynn kicked 6 goals from 9 games in 2015.

And the four seasons prior to that he had averaged 30 goals a season. Injury play a part but McGlynn is a proven goal kicker.

 

[catempire]

And the four seasons prior to that he had averaged 30 goals a season. Injury play a part but McGlynn is a proven goal kicker.

At 30 years of age, 31 by the end of the season, you'd be calling for him to be replaced if he played for us Bob.

 

[Bobby_]

McGlynn is a proven small forward. I don't know why the debate is now about a poster saying he wouldn't get a game due to his age.

 

[catempire]

McGlynn is a proven small forward. I don't know why the debate is now about a poster saying he wouldn't get a game due to his age.

You like to suggest Geelong's 30+ year old players should be pushed out the door. Just interesting that you're extolling the virtues of McGlynn, soon to be 31.

No doubting he has been a consistently effective small forward.

 

[iameviljez]

Arguable I guess but with Franklin and Tippett the main targets he doesn't tend to play as a key. Not really the point of the table though.

I'd argue that last year it was Franklin who played less as a key forward for much of the season - but they all are key-position size. Agree that it's not really the point though.

 

[iameviljez]

You like to suggest Geelong's 30+ year old players should be pushed out the door. Just interesting that you're extolling the virtues of McGlynn, soon to be 31.

No doubting he has been a consistently effective small forward.

Seriously? 31? Wow time does fly. I thought he was about 27-ish.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Because 28 goal assists and 42 goals aren't an excellent return from 24 games? Throw in 4 to 5 tackles as well.

I know we like to talk down Rioli on this board, mostly because of the Hawthorn connection and the constant Rioli/Ablett comparisons in days gone by (surely that one is now settled), but he is still the best small forward in the competition along with Eddie Betts (and, if he keeps it up for another year or two, Robbie Gray). At the end of the day, I'd absolutely love to have him in hoops and unlike much of the rest of the poo'n'wee brigade, he actually seems to be a classy member of humanity too.

It has nothing to do with the Hawthorn connection. Even Motlop has kicked more goals than Rioli in any one season and he's now progressed to the midfield. He's also had a better season than any of Rioli's in the AFL yet hasn't managed AA. The fact that Rioli has despite his output suggesting his place was unwarranted merely confirms my point even further ... at least he guarded space well though, eh?

Rioli's output doesn't warrant the hype nor the measurement.

As for being the best small forward in the league ... I rest my case.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Here are the non-key forward goalkickers from each club for 2015 that kicked 20 or more:

View attachment 223885

Essendon, Gold Coast, GWS and St Kilda each had zero.

Need to bear in mind that Hawthorn have 5 in the list because they played more games. Smith and Hodge might not have made the cut if Hawthorn didn't play finals. But we don't have a small forward as good as Bruest or Betts.

If we are going to be a contender this season we need our players who are not key forwards to kick something like this

Motlop - 40
Menzel - 30
Dangerfield - 30
Caddy - 25
Lang - 20

 

[catempire]

Need to bear in mind that Hawthorn have 5 in the list because they played more games. Smith and Hodge might not have made the cut if Hawthorn didn't play finals. But we don't have a small forward as good as Bruest or Betts.

If we are going to be a contender this season we need our players who are not key forwards to kick something like this

Motlop - 40
Menzel - 30
Dangerfield - 30
Caddy - 25
Lang - 20

Fair point. I could have done it by average goals and it would have told a similar story though.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Need to bear in mind that Hawthorn have 5 in the list because they played more games. Smith and Hodge might not have made the cut if Hawthorn didn't play finals. But we don't have a small forward as good as Bruest or Betts.

If we are going to be a contender this season we need our players who are not key forwards to kick something like this

Motlop - 40
Menzel - 30
Dangerfield - 30
Caddy - 25
Lang - 20

I think we'd be hoping that we can mold some guys like Lang, Gregson, McCarthy or even Cockatoo into consistent, threatening goalkickers this year. Maybe if Cockatoo was given considerable gametime up forward, he could prove to be damaging early in his career in that role.

 

[Rondog]

I think we'd be hoping that we can mold some guys like Lang, Gregson, McCarthy or even Cockatoo into consistent, threatening goalkickers this year. Maybe if Cockatoo was given considerable gametime up forward, he could prove to be damaging early in his career in that role.

Has McCarthy kicked an afl goal yet?

Much more likely to get goals from Hawkins, Vardy, Menzel, Gregson, Motlop, Caddy, Lang, Cockatoo, Dangerfield, & Selwood.

All these players could potentially be playing periods in the Fwd line with the implementation of interchange cap. Not only that, they all have a knack for putting the pigskin through the big sticks.

No disrespect but Linc's got another year to go before breaking into the Fwd line i reckon.

 

[nananana catman]

Need to bear in mind that Hawthorn have 5 in the list because they played more games. Smith and Hodge might not have made the cut if Hawthorn didn't play finals. But we don't have a small forward as good as Bruest or Betts.

If we are going to be a contender this season we need our players who are not key forwards to kick something like this

Motlop - 40
Menzel - 30
Dangerfield - 30
Caddy - 25
Lang - 20

Then we probably won't be a contender. Realistically, they'll all probably kick around 10 less.

 

[Catgirl]

Then we probably won't be a contender. Realistically, they'll all probably kick around 10 less.

What an outlandish statement.

When those players have performed through the season injury free, not one of them has stooped to 10 or below in their career. Why now?

Motlop: 26, 44, 17, 26 = 28.25 goal avg
Menzel: 28 = 28 goal avg
Dangerfield: 21, 26, 23, 23, 31, 17, 21 = 23.14 goal avg
Caddy: 15, 11, 11, 16 = 13.25 goal avg
Lang: 14 = 14 goal avg

I can see that group generating some potent stuff

 

[Lester Burnham]

What an outlandish statement.

When those players have performed through the season injury free, not one of them has stooped to 10 or below in their career. Why now?

Motlop: 26, 44, 17, 26 = 28.25 goal avg
Menzel: 28 = 28 goal avg
Dangerfield: 21, 26, 23, 23, 31, 17, 21 = 23.14 goal avg
Caddy: 15, 11, 11, 16 = 13.25 goal avg
Lang: 14 = 14 goal avg

I can see that group generating some potent stuff

I think he meant 10 goals less than what I stated. Which is realistic based on last year's form. But there is reason to think those guys can score more this year. If Smith fixes our ruck issues and gives us first use of the ball. Dangerfield fixes our clearances problem. Midfielders will spend more time resting up forward rather than on the bench. Plus we have an easier draw. Nothing is guaranteed but we have reason to be hopeful.

 

[Catgirl]

I think he meant 10 goals less than what I stated. Which is realistic based on last year's form. But there is reason to think those guys can score more this year. If Smith fixes our ruck issues and gives us first use of the ball. Dangerfield fixes our clearances problem. Midfielders will spend more time resting up forward rather than on the bench. Plus we have an easier draw. Nothing is guaranteed but we have reason to be hopeful.

Makes sense, my mistake. I strongly believe that last year was an anomaly, and we will see improvements from all parts of the ground, except possibly defence given the age of some our backs. Quietly excited in anticipation of the year ahead

 

[Mningasimisonda]

It has nothing to do with the Hawthorn connection. Even Motlop has kicked more goals than Rioli in any one season and he's now progressed to the midfield. He's also had a better season than any of Rioli's in the AFL yet hasn't managed AA. The fact that Rioli has despite his output suggesting his place was unwarranted merely confirms my point even further ... at least he guarded space well though, eh?

Rioli's output doesn't warrant the hype nor the measurement.

As for being the best small forward in the league ... I rest my case.

He played a pretty good grand final last year.

Though Varcoe also has the ability to turn big games and I never saw him on the list for AA.

Cyril is a bit of an anomaly in that he's a small forward/midfielder that doesn't get many possessions or score many goals but is considered elite.

 

[nananana catman]

What an outlandish statement.

When those players have performed through the season injury free, not one of them has stooped to 10 or below in their career. Why now?

Motlop: 26, 44, 17, 26 = 28.25 goal avg
Menzel: 28 = 28 goal avg
Dangerfield: 21, 26, 23, 23, 31, 17, 21 = 23.14 goal avg
Caddy: 15, 11, 11, 16 = 13.25 goal avg
Lang: 14 = 14 goal avg

I can see that group generating some potent stuff

Can see you got picked up on it. The table shared before showed the best teams have about 4 smalls kicking over 20. To suddenly pin our hopes on a plethora of little guys to have well above career best years is unrealistic.

Reality is if those guys hit those averages we'd be going pretty well. But, the bigger issue is going to be how are we going to structure our talls to support Hawkins (our biggest forward weapon) so he can get plenty of one on one opportunities, or, the opposition get punished by a Stanley/Vardy/Clark/Smith/Kersten/Henderson for not being respectful of the rest of our forward line.

Look at Motlop too, 44 goals in one year. Why would we bother with him in the midfield this year with the depth we have there?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Cyril is a bit of an anomaly in that he's a small forward/midfielder that doesn't get many possessions or score many goals but is considered elite.

He doesn't do much to be honest beside guard space and look flashy.

Ronnie Burns averaged more goals a game as a small forward.