Strategy 2016 Forward Line

[FredLeDeux]

Lana (10less) ... I remember we had this discussion on McCarthy a while ago ..and still a fair way to go but so far he looks like the 30 is quite doable if he can stay fit. He has a ripper set of hands , a very steady setshot and is now starting to crumb. You will rightly say he has plenty of goals still to get but so far he is playing and is more productive than someone with 9 games (too old for Rising star but that is what he is)

His ability to get 30 may be impacted by the amount of time he spends on the ball, the number of games he's rested, and the amount of time he's rested "in-game" (eg like Cockatoo/Smith/Gregson were last night).

 

[Lana]

Lana (10less) ... I remember we had this discussion on McCarthy a while ago ..and still a fair way to go but so far he looks like the 30 is quite doable if he can stay fit. He has a ripper set of hands , a very steady setshot and is now starting to crumb. You will rightly say he has plenty of goals still to get but so far he is playing and is more productive than someone with 9 games (too old for Rising star but that is what he is)

He's looking great so far. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong, I was always a fan, my misgivings were never about his level of talent just the difficulty of the target.

 

[Vdubs]

His ability to get 30 may be impacted by the amount of time he spends on the ball, the number of games he's rested, and the amount of time he's rested "in-game" (eg like Cockatoo/Smith/Gregson were last night).

I predict 1.5 goals a game, max 18 games. And then there may be finals.

 

[Turbocat]

He's looking great so far. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong, I was always a fan, my misgivings were never about his level of talent just the difficulty of the target.

The difficulty is real..your stats and reasons are solid but he is looking more and more like a "special".. 9 games in but he presents as a game changer.

 

[Turbocat]

I predict 1.5 goals a game, max 18 games. And then there may be finals.

Id be happy with that.

 

[Lana]

The difficulty is real..your stats and reasons are solid but he is looking more and more like a "special".. 9 games in but he presents as a game changer.

He certainly does, but he is still under the radar, It won't be long before teams try to lock him and Menzel down.

 

[catempire]

I predict 1.5 goals a game, max 18 games. And then there may be finals.

That would have to be considered a win on any measure given where he's come from. And could be a launchpad for much bigger things.

 

[DanA]

I think all of Menzel, McCarthy and Motlop will be nudging 30 goals. Doubt they all reach it but the way their form is trending they all look possible. Menzel just needs to kick straight and Motlop continue to gain fitness.

 

[Spazz Cat]

He certainly does, but he is still under the radar, It won't be long before teams try to lock him and Menzel down.

The beauty is its preety hard to lock both of them down and have someone to jump in to double team Hawkins.
If Kersten becomes decent enough to demand a defender and can stay at least 30m away from Hawkins those 3 will kick enough goals.
If Menz kicks straight he could kick 50+

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Too slow and too tall down back. Timeout. * the defence.

the biggest area to fix in this team is the forward line. So dysfunctional atm.

 

[catempire]

McCarthy is a work in progress but gee he was important tonight.

Out of form right now. Not sure this is the best six but there's a lot of upside.

 

[Boxhead_31]

The 2008 PF is currently on FoxFooty and watching our forward line then it is amazing to see how far away it has fallen.
Then we had six players working to create space, block, work to make an easy option for the midfield to hit.

There is so much work being done off of the ball that I just don't see being done by the forward group anymore. I seriously hope that this off-season we spend a massive amount of time working on what we do going forward, so we don't rely on the failed Long Bomb approach.

 

[Cataholic]

The 2008 PF is currently on FoxFooty and watching our forward line then it is amazing to see how far away it has fallen.
Then we had six players working to create space, block, work to make an easy option for the midfield to hit.

There is so much work being done off of the ball that I just don't see being done by the forward group anymore. I seriously hope that this off-season we spend a massive amount of time working on what we do going forward, so we don't rely on the failed Long Bomb approach.

And hopefully Hawkins helps by making leads, rather than standing in the one spot wrestling.

Also need others to stand up and provide legitimate, alternative targets, so we stretch defences and draw the attention of opposition defenders away from Hawkins.

 

[Seeds]

The 2008 PF is currently on FoxFooty and watching our forward line then it is amazing to see how far away it has fallen.
Then we had six players working to create space, block, work to make an easy option for the midfield to hit.

There is so much work being done off of the ball that I just don't see being done by the forward group anymore. I seriously hope that this off-season we spend a massive amount of time working on what we do going forward, so we don't rely on the failed Long Bomb approach.

Chris Scott is a guru among coaches. Discredit him at your peril.

 

[Seeds]

I think all of Menzel, McCarthy and Motlop will be nudging 30 goals. Doubt they all reach it but the way their form is trending they all look possible. Menzel just needs to kick straight and Motlop continue to gain fitness.

Both Menzel and motlop have already achieved it. They don't need to improve. They can actually go backwards and still reach 30 goals.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Chris Scott is a guru among coaches. Discredit him at your peril.

Do you honestly think it is just the Senior coach who influences how a team plays?
Who was our Attacking coach in 2008? In 2016 it was Caracella

 

[you pick one]

And hopefully Hawkins helps by making leads, rather than standing in the one spot wrestling.

Also need others to stand up and provide legitimate, alternative targets, so we stretch defences and draw the attention of opposition defenders away from Hawkins.

I agree our forward line is in need of some direction and like you most here talk of stretching defenses,but there's another way to create opportunities for forwards and that's starting your 3 key forwards deep together around the goal square leaving a huge area in front to lead into,the guts of this set up is enable two of the forwards to block and screen the 3 backs with a bit of ring around a rose as the other gets a break on the lead.Lynch,Brown and Bradshaw worked it well.I believe it would still work today.

 

[manboob]

The 2008 PF is currently on FoxFooty and watching our forward line then it is amazing to see how far away it has fallen.
Then we had six players working to create space, block, work to make an easy option for the midfield to hit.

There is so much work being done off of the ball that I just don't see being done by the forward group anymore. I seriously hope that this off-season we spend a massive amount of time working on what we do going forward, so we don't rely on the failed Long Bomb approach.

Well our forward line coach is gone so fingers crossed.

 

[Seeds]

Do you honestly think it is just the Senior coach who influences how a team plays?
Who was our Attacking coach in 2008? In 2016 it was Caracella

Nope i dont

 

[Vdubs]

I think all of Menzel, McCarthy and Motlop will be nudging 30 goals. Doubt they all reach it but the way their form is trending they all look possible. Menzel just needs to kick straight and Motlop continue to gain fitness.

What was that Meatloaf saying, 2 out 3 aint bad?

 

[Ray Donovan]

One of our biggest unaddressed problems/weaknesses over the last few years has been our forward line.

We have lacked a dangerous medium forward since chappy left and SJ on final legs as well as a CHF that can get on the park. But IMO it is more to do with strategy and our lack of roles given to our forwards.

Bombing it on Hawkins' head whilst being double teamed, or kicking it to stationary targets (sound familiar?) will just not cut it in the modern game, especially against good defences. The brown and yellow flogs have really mastered how it should be done, with more precise forward 50 entries to moving leading players as well as permanent forwards who have defined forward roles.

STRATEGY

- We need our forwards to be constantly moving with space being opened up to lead in to.

- We need to lower our eyes and hit up short 15m chip passes (like Hawks do) to free players, rather than bomb it every time to a double teamed Hawkins. The top of the goal square kick should still be used but only at the opportune moment. We just need to be less predictable and smarter.

PERSONNEL ROLES

The last few years our forwards have not had any defined roles (from where I sit). Each player needs a different role from the next in order to make the forward line work as a cohesive unit.

My ideal forward line and accompanying roles:

HF: resting mid - Clark or Vardy - Bartel
FF: Lang/Gregson - Hawkins - Menzel

- Resting mids (caddy, Motlop, Duncan, Selwood, danger). Role: to have a break from the mid and capitalise on opportunities.

- CHF can only be one of Clark or vardy. Unless vardy is playing as a second ruck and rotating forward (on the assumption Stanley is not there) both cannot fit. It shouldn't be an issue as one will probably be injured anyway. Role: to take that second defender from Hawkins and compete in the air and be a target up the ground therefore opening space in the forward 50.

- Bartel: my role for him would be a defensive hff that tags the best hbf and thus stopping teams running out of our attack at ease (a real weakness for us). Rooke mastered this role in our glory days and jimmy has the attributes to do the same, he tagged hayes out of the gf so can do this, the great man will have no issue sacrificing himself for the team in this new role and can contribute with a goal or 2 with some good leadership and tackling pressure and aerial presence in the forward 50.

- Gregson/Lang: as a result of having no specialist medium forward (bar menzel) we are forced to keep one of these players here. It's not ideal as they are both better mids, it shows we need to target one in the draft and trade next year. Role: to be CONSTANTLY moving when we are on the attack (running up and down the ground and repeat, constantly leading into space making an option) like poupolo or bruest do. They also need to be dangerous at ground level. When we do not have the ball, they need to bring relentless tackling pressure that causes inside 50 turnovers.

- Hawkins: Needs to move more. Our motto next year needs to be "keep moving". He is so much more dangerous on the lead marking at the ball and if our above players keep moving, space opens up for Hawkins to lead into. His secondary role will still always be that power foward get out of jail kick card but I would like to see it used less. If he's one out, good kick it to him at his advantage. But when double teamed, we need to lower our eyes and be unpredictable.

- Menzel: assuming stays fit, menzels role is that lurking smart medium forward that we lack and crave so much. To create opportunities from nothing and be an aerial target (third tall almost).

Overall we need to be less predictable going forward (by not kicking to Hawkins every single time). They need to work together as one cohesive moving unpredictable unit, by fulfilling smaller individual roles.

The point of this thread is to discuss ideas as to how to make our forward work better and be more dangerous. Are there any other ideas?

Only just read this today what did our entries look like v sydney hehe!
Coach or players fault or both must have been a nightmare

 

[BlightysCats]

Time to change the thread title @strauchnyy 2017 Forward Line.

 

[DangerIsLove]

Who's our forward coach cause Caracella didn't have a clue.
My lineup would be

HF: Cockatoo Stanley Duncan
F: Taylor Hawkins Menzel

* (On The Interchange) - McCarthy, Motlop

Taylor would play extremely well up forward. He would allow Hawkins to lead and we have sufficient players to crum and score. It's time for Gardner to get a go up back, this sends Harry up forward.

 

[DanA]

I'm not totally despondent about the cattle. I'm just hoping we don't play too tall again. I think that was a massive mistake we made against Sydney that really should have been settle by about round 11 rather than still up in the air come finals. It's my belief only four of Hawkins, Stanley, Blicavs, Smith, Taylor and Henderson should be in the team as forwards/midfielders.

 

[Partridge]

I'm not totally despondent about the cattle. I'm just hoping we don't play too tall again. I think that was a massive mistake we made against Sydney that really should have been settle by about round 11 rather than still up in the air come finals. It's my belief only four of Hawkins, Stanley, Blicavs, Smith, Taylor and Henderson should be in the team as forwards/midfielders.

It wasn't a surprise though. Scott clearly loves playing all the tall players so I don't see it changing.