Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

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RudyBlue

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Still will be tough trade to get across the line. They don't want to lose Marchbank and Steele but at the same time realise there will be salary cap casualties, they will put offers to these guys no doubt but will it be enough to keep them? There is only so much salary they can spend and they have other highly talented players who are probably a bigger priority.

Saints (among others) are also very keen on those two. The thing is, clubs will be very apprehensive about using a first rounder on just one of those players, that's where a package deal can be beneficial.
Yeah should be an interesting off season. If last year's anything to go by, SOS has shown he's still a ruthless competitor and will put anything on the table for the right return.
 

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ParapMarkets

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maybe but who knows the real facts. who have the dogs lost because of boyd? very talented list if you ask me.
They haven't lost anybody yet and yes they have a very talented list with young players on the improve. I am extremely impressed by how the doggies have turned around their fortunes so quickly, their drafting has been brilliant, they took some risks and they have paid off. The problem they have is all these improving youngsters are going to demand more and more money.

Even after 2 years on $1.4 million per year, he will average $1 million per year for the final 4 years. Maybe he comes good and dominates and all will be good, he obviously has some very impressive attributes ( I was impressed with his final NAB cup game). But I don't really understand how anyone can think this contract isn't going to create headaches for the dogs in the future. He is on Buddy money.
 

RudyBlue

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I suppose the question for GWS, is what happens if those deals with other clubs fall through, or are difficult to get through? GWS needs the points, they might value certainty over potential value.
Fair point fair point. Just think it's fanciful some people think the deal could be basically done. Long way to go.
 

chunkylover53

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Read the Dogs board for how they feel for his performance through the 2's.
Please remember that this is a player commanding 7% of the salary cap and not 2%. You have to understand what that means in the scheme of things.
Harks you're failing to take into account that the caps going up. The Dogs knew this when they signed Boyd and Sydney knew this when they signed Hogan. It's a bust this year but they're not at the stage where it's restricting them yet. When that 7% becomes 3 or 4% and he's coming good, no one will care about that year he spent in the 2s chewing a salary cap.
 

Farktherest

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Hopefully our point of difference, much like last year, is willingness to take on the contract of lesser lights such as Stewart.
Not to mention players need to agree to be traded to a club...maybe they like the idea of coming to one club together, possibly friends with last year's gws 4 and they can see the opportunity to cement a place in our senior 22 with a team seemingly on the rise playing under a coach who can develop them to reach their potential as players.
 

ParapMarkets

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Harks you're failing to take into account that the caps going up. The Dogs knew this when they signed Boyd and Sydney knew this when they signed Hogan. It's a bust this year but they're not at the stage where it's restricting them yet. When that 7% becomes 3 or 4% and he's coming good, no one will care about that year he spent in the 2s chewing a salary cap.
There is no 3 or 4%! This year Boyd is taking over 15% of the salary cap. As the salary gets to a more manageable level and with salary cap increases it will still be more than 7%. Harker was being conservative.
 

RudyBlue

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There is no 3 or 4%! This year Boyd is taking over 15% of the salary cap. As the salary gets to a more manageable level and with salary cap increases it will still be more than 7%. Harker was being conservative.
Salary cap this year is $10.6 million. At most (full mill), Boyd is a little under 10% of TPPs.
 

ParapMarkets

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Boyd's on about $1.4m this year and next so its circa 13%+ now:eek:
Yes, I got it wrong and this is right. Long story short, he will be taking a massive chunk of the pie even in the later years. Anyway, enough about him and on to the Blues.

I really do hope we can secure the GWS 4, I wonder if there are some others like Ahern who might be available. They just have so much talent with only so much in the salary cap.
 

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dangerousdane

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People chatting about Boyd. A few points.

1. Boyd is contracted for roughly 1 Mil a year
2. Boyd does not need to take a pay cut if he stays or if he wants to leave as he is contracted for 5-6 years
 

chunkylover53

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There is no 3 or 4%! This year Boyd is taking over 15% of the salary cap. As the salary gets to a more manageable level and with salary cap increases it will still be more than 7%. Harker was being conservative.
Salary cap is more then $10mil... Let's say Boyd is on $1m, that's less than 10%. Where did you pull 15 from?
 

ParapMarkets

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Salary cap is more then $10mil... Let's say Boyd is on $1m, that's less than 10%. Where did you pull 15 from?
As per the numerous posts about his salary (including on this very page), he is not on $1 million this year. I have already admitted that my 15% was wrong and that it is over 13%. Later years when he averages $1 million a year on a higher salary cap is another story altogether but it won't be anything like 3-4%.
 

chunkylover53

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As per the numerous posts about his salary (including on this very page), he is not on $1 million this year. I have already admitted that my 15% was wrong and that it is over 13%. Later years when he averages $1 million a year on a higher salary cap is another story altogether but it won't be anything like 3-4%.
So what you're saying is the Dogs planned it perfectly. Front loading his contract before their other stars demand big money, and by the time their big stars seek a pay rise, Boyd's contract will be winding back and the salary cap will have increased again so they can afford to retain their guys no problems. Sounds ok to me.

Clubs in the modern era just aren't that stupid these days (except for Richmond lol), they don't go throwing around $1mil a year on a kid with potential without any real plan behind it. I'll be astounded if the Boyd contract hurts the Dogs in the long run - same goes for Sydney with Buddy.
 

ParapMarkets

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So what you're saying is the Dogs planned it perfectly. Front loading his contract before their other stars demand big money, and by the time their big stars seek a pay rise, Boyd's contract will be winding back and the salary cap will have increased again so they can afford to retain their guys no problems. Sounds ok to me.

Clubs in the modern era just aren't that stupid these days (except for Richmond lol), they don't go throwing around $1mil a year on a kid with potential without any real plan behind it. I'll be astounded if the Boyd contract hurts the Dogs in the long run - same goes for Sydney with Buddy.
Whatevs. If you think $1 million a year after monstrous money for the previous 2 years is good then so be it. I cringe whenever Carlton supporters bring up his name for a trade. Massive risk, and the doggies are already regretting it.
 

RudyBlue

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Yes, I got it wrong and this is right. Long story short, he will be taking a massive chunk of the pie even in the later years. Anyway, enough about him and on to the Blues.

I really do hope we can secure the GWS 4, I wonder if there are some others like Ahern who might be available. They just have so much talent with only so much in the salary cap.
Yeah I'd prefer Ahern to Stewart in the touted deal
 

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Yeah I'd prefer Ahern to Stewart in the touted deal
I would like to think that the club should be looking at Ahern instead of Stewart.

BUT until Jaksch is completely comfortable back in the forward line, I would want to have another tall forward sitting there as depth in the Bullants. At the moment, we have Casboult as our main power forward. Then we supposedly have Gorringe and Jones as our second talls and Jaksch as the third string. But I think that Jaksch, the way that he is going in the Bullants, will soon pass Jones and Gorringe as our preferred second tall. We have McKay as our backup key position forward for when Casboult goes down... but with Harry out on the LTI list, we have no real backup for Cas and we would have to depend on Jones or Gorringe stepping up.

And thats where Stewart fills the need. He would be comfortable depth for us. Good enough to hold down the key forward position to back up Casboult while McKay finishes developing.
 

RudyBlue

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I would like to think that the club should be looking at Ahern instead of Stewart.

BUT until Jaksch is completely comfortable back in the forward line, I would want to have another tall forward sitting there as depth in the Bullants. At the moment, we have Casboult as our main power forward. Then we supposedly have Gorringe and Jones as our second talls and Jaksch as the third string. But I think that Jaksch, the way that he is going in the Bullants, will soon pass Jones and Gorringe as our preferred second tall. We have McKay as our backup key position forward for when Casboult goes down... but with Harry out on the LTI list, we have no real backup for Cas and we would have to depend on Jones or Gorringe stepping up.

And thats where Stewart fills the need. He would be comfortable depth for us. Good enough to hold down the key forward position to back up Casboult while McKay finishes developing.
Yeah there'll still be 2-3 draft/trade periods before we're close to a contending list so it's not like we should be purely targeting one area on the list (backline most developed though).

Shouldn't talk about this trade as though it's likely however. Unless someone has some reliable inside goss
 

Canyouhearthedrums

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On what genuine authority do we have this GWS 4 v.2 trade? I understand GWS need to cull their list but Steele and Marchbank (maybe Tomlinson) could each draw first rounders from other clubs. SOS does have the connection but surely demand would indicate they could do better than a first and second rounder for the 4.
I think this is a good point. I reckon they could get 2-3 first rounders elsewhere.
 

Soapy V

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They haven't lost anybody yet and yes they have a very talented list with young players on the improve. I am extremely impressed by how the doggies have turned around their fortunes so quickly, their drafting has been brilliant, they took some risks and they have paid off. The problem they have is all these improving youngsters are going to demand more and more money.

Even after 2 years on $1.4 million per year, he will average $1 million per year for the final 4 years. Maybe he comes good and dominates and all will be good, he obviously has some very impressive attributes ( I was impressed with his final NAB cup game). But I don't really understand how anyone can think this contract isn't going to create headaches for the dogs in the future. He is on Buddy money.
but they done it while he and the list are young. by the the time he is 25-26 the deal is over. All the current stars are signed up. I dont see what the issue is.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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but they done it while he and the list are young. by the the time he is 25-26 the deal is over. All the current stars are signed up. I dont see what the issue is.
Stops them being able to chase FA's or trade in a biggish name who can actually contribute to the team.
In saying that I still think he will be a good player but they certainly overpaid
 
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