Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chalky Blues

All Australian
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Posts
888
Likes
1,130
Location
Chirnside Park
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last players sigend and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on
C'mon Soapy, don't use logical truthful facts to shoot my comments down
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Posts
18,537
Likes
47,145
AFL Club
Carlton
C'mon Soapy, don't use logical truthful facts to shoot my comments down
;) i like armfield but reading between the lines i think he will be gone. he's playing like its his last year. the club will make another 10-12 changes at the end of the year. both sos & bolton have said in the last few weeks the list has a long way to go. be nice to keep them all but the system means we need to make tough decisions to be a top side again. in two years we wont recognise the list
 

Chalky Blues

All Australian
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Posts
888
Likes
1,130
Location
Chirnside Park
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
;) i like armfield but reading between the lines i think he will be gone. he's playing like its his last year. the club will make another 10-12 changes at the end of the year. both sos & bolton have said in the last few weeks the list has a long way to go. be nice to keep them all but the system means we need to make tough decisions to be a top side again. in two years we wont recognise the list
Maybe your right but i think 10-12 more changes is a couple to many but I guess we'll just have to see what SOS thinks is best for the club
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Posts
18,537
Likes
47,145
AFL Club
Carlton
Maybe your right but i think 10-12 more changes is a couple to many but I guess we'll just have to see what SOS thinks is best for the club
agree. i am happy with what ever they do. i have no doubt they are on the right track. my comments are based on what i think they will do based on their comments. everything they have said since the end of the last year says big changes to me. a 66 game rebuild turning over around 25-30 players says a lot is still to happen
 

Iamcarlton

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Posts
3,815
Likes
4,125
Location
Up North
AFL Club
Carlton
Cameron or Hogan would be very easy to understand. Boyd is a long way from a sure bet as a future elite KPF. Only very fleeting glimpses so far.
Yep, I think people are getting seduced a little by the forner number 1 pick tag.
He may well become a quality kpf but to date he's close to the highest paid player in he comp having done sfa.
The desire to recruit him is a little confusing tbh.

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Fair chance he'll be taking a Tom scully style pay cut at the end of his current contract . Cannot understand why any Carlton person would want him on our list . Phillips has had as big of an impact on a game this year as Boyd for fifth of the cost . And I don't subscribe to the he's young he'll be quality in a few years . But good luck to the doggies .
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Posts
49,871
Likes
63,948
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II
 

gandaal

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Posts
17,568
Likes
11,660
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Tom Boyd has the natural talent to be a dominant player. He is into his what - second year? Dud already? Please...
I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.
 
Last edited:

Blue87

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Posts
374
Likes
340
Location
Willaston
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester United
GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II
7 goals between the three of them......not bad
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Posts
49,871
Likes
63,948
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last player signed and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on
Are you stating that as a fact? If we had have got Tomlinson, we wouldn't have Harry Mckay may be closer to the fact.
We may have taken another pick in the ND though and if that was going to be the case it would have been the pick after Silvagni.....possibly Crocker.
 

ferrisb

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
May 22, 2011
Posts
12,762
Likes
53,426
Location
The Naughty Corner
AFL Club
Carlton
GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II
Great idea, harks!

I would caution people against getting too carried away with neafl performances though.

Jed lamb kicked 43 goals in 17 neafl matches last year. At AFL level, hed probably kick 20 (maybe 25) from 17 games.

Tomlinson is 3rd in the neafl player of the year count this year, but remember Richard tambling won the award last year.

Consistently good performances will be meaningful, but don't read too much into individual games (especially blowouts ) as some of the sides are woeful.... i mean jed lamb kicked 8 goals in a match against the swans seconds. ..
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dramoth

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
25,619
Likes
13,073
Location
Bunbury, WA
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester United
Are you stating that as a fact? If we had have got Tomlinson, we wouldn't have Harry Mckay may be closer to the fact.
We may have taken another pick in the ND though and if that was going to be the case it would have been the pick after Silvagni.....possibly Crocker.
I think you'll find we probably wouldn't have gotten C. Curnow if we had gotten Tomlinson.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Posts
49,871
Likes
63,948
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I think you'll find we probably wouldn't have gotten C. Curnow if we had gotten Tomlinson.
I've heard both but tending to lean towards us having had a keener eye for CCurnow.
We had to get McKay before Adelaide, who also wanted him and hence the earlier selection. Not 100% though.
 

Canyouhearthedrums

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Posts
3,713
Likes
4,030
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last player signed and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on
Sure but you can't deny his form this year has markedly improved. Different decision now.
 

ShanDog

Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Posts
17,325
Likes
31,550
Location
sv_cheats 1
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Edmonton Oilers
Moderator #6,316
I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.
I agree with your description of modern forwards.

With regard to 'not playing to expectations', this is the thing I'm saying people jump the gun on. People's expectations are rarely realistic. This includes Boyd IMO.
 

therubbernub

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Posts
4,732
Likes
8,176
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
carlton
I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.
Boyd always seemed a bit soft to me. I think you must have aggression at the ball to succeed as a tall in afl. Height is just not enough. Footy smarts can be taught by the right coach. Our harry seems to have the aggression. That why i like him
 

Dramoth

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
25,619
Likes
13,073
Location
Bunbury, WA
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester United
Should we look to putting Smith on the rookie list, give him another 12 months or 2 years to prove himself?
He got badly distracted last year by a former member of the squad from the rumours floating about. This year is about readjustment for him. IF he can show that he has pulled it all together in the VFL, we might give him another year in the senior squad... I don't think that we are going to waste a rookie spot by delisting him and picking him up again. We could have done that with Holman... who I've heard had serious issues.
 

therubbernub

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Posts
4,732
Likes
8,176
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
carlton
I've heard both but tending to lean towards us having had a keener eye for CCurnow.
We had to get McKay before Adelaide, who also wanted him and hence the earlier selection. Not 100% though.
How many key forwards do they want? Or maybe they just rated him very highly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom