Out of that lot would only want Gresham and Billings at CFC. Steven is good but not for our rebuild. Should try to get Gresham next year when out of contract
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Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
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Are we still going to hire that moron recruiter who got done for betting on AFL games? Wouldn't his suspension be just about over?
If you have sub-standard players on the list, then you have to dispense with them, its as simple as that. Malthouse sent us further back in time with his crazy attempts to change things so the current people in the football department are not only trying to rebuild the list, they are undoing all of his crap work as well.
However, if your drafting & trading has been thorough & exact over a few years then the list should be well-stocked with up & coming tyros. Once that happens, all that is needed is a slight tinker here & there every year but mainly sitting back and waiting for it to all explode. The young players will all develop & grow together and in the blink of an eye, it will click together and we will be on its way.
Steele, WHE, Kennedy*2, Barrett and Hopper all had a big game in NEAFL. They have so many young mids that are not getting a game of AFL. Must be very frustrating for these kids...
"State league affiliate: Giants (NEAFL)
This weekend: Gold Coast v Giants - Saturday August 6, 12.55pm, Metricon Stadium
Another compelling game from Will Hoskin-Elliott will see him push hard for selection in the senior team next week, after the Giants were commanding victors, 27.8 (170) to 8.11 (59).
He notched up 31 disposals, six tackles and registered 1.2.
Matthew Kennedy (31 disposals and two goals), Jake Barrett (30 and three) and Adam Kennedy (30) were also prominent.
Four goals from Jacob Hopper, combined with 26 disposals, means Leon Cameron has no shortage of players to pick from.
Another to perform well was likely trade target Jack Steele, who also had 26 disposals to combine with three goals and eight tackles.
Defender Matt Buntine recorded 23 disposals as he bids to return to the senior team following a hamstring injury.
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It's insane how much talent they have running around in the 2's. Problem is how do we get them?? I'm not sure GWS have anything we need. They seems to have enough picks already for there academy players , 8,16,17,32,34. Maybe we can burn our first pick in the 2017 draft to try and land a few talented Giants. I'd prefer to keep our picks this year
Weitering, Docherty, Gibbs, Cripps, Plowman, Byrne and Tuohy are the only players on our list who I think will definitely be there when we next play finals.
Of course a lot of players on our list eg: C.Curnow, McKay, Silvagni, Cunningham might develop into good players but right now we are looking very bleak.
Of course a lot of players on our list eg: C.Curnow, McKay, Silvagni, Cunningham might develop into good players but right now we are looking very bleak.
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- #11,358
They do have enough picks for their academy players... this year.
The AFL brought in future pick trading to give the expansion clubs a mechanism to rort the system like mad.
They'll still happily take our picks or points this year. Once they're happy the have enough points, they'll then trade out a first rounder or two this year to a team for one or two 1st round picks next year, to repeat the whole process again.
Lets say after sorting out trades and list culling this year, they do the numbers and decide they enough points to pay for the 4-5 academy first rounders, and still have 2500-3000 points left over.
In that case they'll look to trade out pick 9 (valued at 1500 points) and pick 15 (1100 points) in this years draft, for 2 future first rounders (say one from Melbourne and one from Collingwood so both sides can get back into the first round again this year).
They then take the 4-5 discounted 1st round draft picks this year, and then next year, after winning the flag, have 3 more first round draft picks to spend on 4-5 more discounted 1st round picks.
It is what it is. Our role in this is to use it to our best advantage.
RattAttack
Team Captain
Their NEAFL performances look great on paper but the comp is very poor.
Whiley was dominating the NEAFL prior to us trading him in. Was averaging approx 30 touches a game.
Steele is the one we should be targeting, the rest we can do without.
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The talk of trading Gibbs is pie-in-the-sky, fantasy stuff.
Projecting 5 years into the future has always been fraught with danger and making reactionary, irrational calls on players who add immensely to our side could be corrosive.
We have a very poor midfield unit and by trading Gibbs, arguably our best mid, we're pushing ourselves back on the off chance we snag a few players of similar calibre. For a similar comparison, Melbourne sought out Bernie Vince to assist with the development of their younger players and Gibbs fulfils the same purpose for us.
We're also in a unique position whereby we can leverage our relationship with GWS, get them the picks they need to take academy players and get hold of some of their under utilised talent. These are the systems that are going to work for us, won't jeopardise our playing list and enable us to add multiple players without giving up too much.
Ultimately - lets take care of our present before we start launching into five year plans, full-scale rebuilds and OTT hyperbole about the state of our list. Just one week ago we'd pushed all of Hawthorn, West Coast and Sydney. We're on the right track.
Projecting 5 years into the future has always been fraught with danger and making reactionary, irrational calls on players who add immensely to our side could be corrosive.
We have a very poor midfield unit and by trading Gibbs, arguably our best mid, we're pushing ourselves back on the off chance we snag a few players of similar calibre. For a similar comparison, Melbourne sought out Bernie Vince to assist with the development of their younger players and Gibbs fulfils the same purpose for us.
We're also in a unique position whereby we can leverage our relationship with GWS, get them the picks they need to take academy players and get hold of some of their under utilised talent. These are the systems that are going to work for us, won't jeopardise our playing list and enable us to add multiple players without giving up too much.
Ultimately - lets take care of our present before we start launching into five year plans, full-scale rebuilds and OTT hyperbole about the state of our list. Just one week ago we'd pushed all of Hawthorn, West Coast and Sydney. We're on the right track.
the draft concessions / academy set ups for the northern clubs makes the equalisation policy of the AFL a sad joke. Maybe GWS winning 4 of the next 8 flags will build their crowds from 10,000 to 20,000 and get a foothold in the (supposedly) all important Western Sydney market. Maybe future TV rights will be worth more. At what cost? Meantime it has denied perhaps a dozen or more traditional clubs being contenders in that same period. Denied a traditional football state Tasmania its own team. A billion dollars frittered on expansion teams whilst grass roots footy is in decline.
I know it's off topic but if the AFL wants a draft to equalise the comp, make it truly equal. No COLA, no academies, no draft concessions. I think the AFL took to drinking its own bathwater and the northern expansion clubs are hubris. Why do we have Gold Coast when Brisbane can barely make end meet (a team that three peated just over a decade ago)? Maybe if all those riches had been poured into 16 teams - relocate one to Tassie - and spent the rest on grassroots development the game would have been much better for it 10 years from now. But the AFL went down another path and I think history will show they got it monumentally wrong.
Anyone with kids knows and understands that soccer is a real threat. Meantime the AFL fiddles whilst Rome burns.
End of rant. I think.
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WHE is contracted yes?
Stewart ? (Think so)
If they need to clear cap space and remember the favour we done last year then I can see Tomlinson thrown in for a mid second rounder. Marchbank will cost us another second rounder or the pick we get for 2e, Cas, Dre. Etc
Downgrade 4-5 to 11 and maybe 16ish and boom......flag.....well you know progress
Stewart ? (Think so)
If they need to clear cap space and remember the favour we done last year then I can see Tomlinson thrown in for a mid second rounder. Marchbank will cost us another second rounder or the pick we get for 2e, Cas, Dre. Etc
Downgrade 4-5 to 11 and maybe 16ish and boom......flag.....well you know progress
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Steele and Marchbank will be definite Best 22 players immediately and will be hardest to dislodge. Lot of interest.
Tomlinson could definitely be a player if we settle on his best role and could be Best 22 by 2017's end - should be cheap now due to 2016.
Stewart will be very cheap and is the lowest risk but could be an excellent player - biggest unknown for me but still an upgrade on Jones/Jaksch on 2nds form/age/potential as a pure KPF.
If we only walked away with these four and went to the draft with 2 x top 25 picks, we can consider it a win.
Tomlinson could definitely be a player if we settle on his best role and could be Best 22 by 2017's end - should be cheap now due to 2016.
Stewart will be very cheap and is the lowest risk but could be an excellent player - biggest unknown for me but still an upgrade on Jones/Jaksch on 2nds form/age/potential as a pure KPF.
If we only walked away with these four and went to the draft with 2 x top 25 picks, we can consider it a win.
Tomlinson,Marchbank and Stewart want to come to play with us.Jamison has retired.
At least 12 will be traded,delisted or retired at end of the year.
Thanks barass70. Any updates on Steele, or is he going to be more difficult due to interest from multiple clubs?
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
2008 - Melbourne finished last in 2008. Got pick 1.
2009 - Tanked in 2009 and got a PP. Pick 1 & 2.
2010 - They improve and finish 12th and decide to go full rebuild. Clean out all their most experienced players including delisting their captain (McDonald), Brad Miller and Cameron Bruce. All are at the end of their careers, but still play (nominal) football elsewhere
2011 - Finish 13th
2012 - Now missing any kind of leadership (is this the year they appoint 16yo co-captains?) and finish 16th - above only the expansion teams
2013 - Finish 17th, with 2 wins and % of 54% (significantly worse than Brisbane in 2016....!!!)
2014 - Finish 17th, above only the team that wins a spoon every 3.5 years it plays VFL/AFL footy
2015 - Finishes 13th, starting to climb back
2016 - To finish around 11th and starting to look like it might make finals in the next couple of years.
So, 6 years on from going "Full Rebuild" Melbourne have a bunch of exciting kids but conceivably could go close to 10 years without making the finals (from rebuild ground zero).
Long-term planning is fine.
Trading out ageing stars is fine.
Topping up on kids is fine.
But the lesson of all this is...
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thylacine60
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They just comfortably beat the premiership favourites. We could have had nearly 2 x 10 year rebuilds by now. Their young players are giving massive hope and playing as though they are actually being developed. Supporters in the MCC aren't hoping against hope their past draftees will show something in the reserves. They are showing plenty on the MCG.
Dramoth
Premium Platinum
If we thought that Steele and Barrett would enhance our midfield for the minimum cost, I would be happy taking them. We need to rebuild our midfield and build talented depth... then we should look at trading in mids. God knows those two would be better than most of our current tier 2 mids.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
Melbourne have a scarily good young midfield, about the best young fwd in the game and I have no idea what they have in defence (not even Melbourne supporters watch Melbourne games). And I would much rather be in their shoes than ours, list wise. By a long way.
I'm just saying that IF they make the finals next year, it will be 9 seasons since they finished bottom in 2008.
And if you reset the clock when they went full rebuild, it will still be 7 seasons....
Now, I don't want to try any of this Richmond 'let's take the easy way out and top out playing finals' crap, but I also think taking 10 or so years for a rebuild of rebuild is not the greatest outcome.
Aggressive list re-generation is one thing. Scorched earth is another.
On a scale of
0 - Carlton just auto-renewing the entire playing list every year during 2000-2012
to
10 - Melbourne going full-rebuild
I think the best balance might be 7/8.....
Just my opinion.
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RoCo made an excellent point in his analysis of The.Dees win that it was a few mid tier/later draft picks in Jayden Hunt, James Harmes and Billy Stretch that made significant contributions to the win, and that collates with my post about needing to start nailing our second/third/fourth round and later picks.
Everyone has this obsession about first round picks and players, whereas our putrid lack of success rate in that area is probably the second biggest reason our club is in the stare its in now (after the SC sanctions)
That Hunt bloke especially for The Dees looks like a real goer, there is no substitute for developing your own, especially with later picks.
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- #11,375
Mate, we have a putrid lack of success in every round of the draft. Barring Cripps, our last success in the first round was Yarran in 2008 and even that nearly turned into a disaster.
1st rounders should at a minimum be around 200 game AFL quality players. You hope they'll be stars. Every now and again you'll have a bust (Gumbleton, Tambling, Thorp). To have uncovered one star and zero AFL quality players (too early to tell with 2015's draft crop, and still a few question marks on Boeky) in close to ten years is beyond diabolical.
We need to remedy that gaping hole in the list via getting in more 1st rounders and improving our position in the draft.
Then we have to turn around a decade of being the worst performed at the draft, and nail those picks.
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