Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Blue_Fusion]

Oh dear, that is terrible!

Well actually Gibbs leads our goal kicking now with 18, but still 1 behind Jeffy!

 

[La Dispute]

FWIW it was on Ch 7 news in Adelaide tonight that Brad Crouch has re-signed with the AFC to be announced in the next week or two (we always take a week or two to go official for some reason). This fits with what your man Heres Waite reported about Crouch and his management meeting with the club on Monday.

I guess we can all put Gibbs for Brouch to bed.

Someone will have to break the news to Hawthorn too

Have you seen some of the innuendo on here?

Of course it wasn't go to happen.

 

[La Dispute]

None of that is true? How so?

Comparable midfielders to Tom Mitchell have broken down in their late 20s and have either retired or played on shells of their former selves.

Such as?

I truly can't fathom how the argument has escalated. The difference between how you perceive Mitchell and how Sydney perceive Mitchell and how you perceive Touhy and how the rest of the comp perceives Tuohy is cataclysmic.

Again - post that trade suggestion in the Tom Mitchell thread on the T&D forum and see what sort of response you'll get.

 

[Jeremias]

I truly can't fathom how the argument has escalated. The difference between how you perceive Mitchell and how Sydney perceive Mitchell and how you perceive Touhy and how the rest of the comp perceives Tuohy is cataclysmic.

Again - post that trade suggestion in the Tom Mitchell thread on the T&D forum and see what sort of response you'll get.

Tuohy was names in the AFL Coaches’ Association All-Australian team in 2015. That being the case I dare say it's you who has erred when assessing his value.

Also can't help but laugh at treating what those on the D&T board say as gospel.

 

[La Dispute]

Tuohy was names in the AFL Coaches’ Association All-Australian team in 2015. That being the case I dare say it's you who has erred when assessing his value.

Also can't help but laugh at treating what those on the D&T board say as gospel.

A democratic assessment of posters from other clubs V Carlton supporters on Touhy.

Surely you're aware of any potential bias.

 

[juzza316]

Tuohy was names in the AFL Coaches’ Association All-Australian team in 2015. That being the case I dare say it's you who has erred when assessing his value.

Also can't help but laugh at treating what those on the D&T board say as gospel.

Good on Zach for making that coaches team but the way the team was picked is somewhat misleading, he was voted 100th overall and therefore the highest in the small defender category. Sam Mitchell came 8th but didn't make the team. He also came 3rd in the Brownlow and in hawthorns b&f.

I don't think that team can be used to argue the difference in value between touhy and Tom mitchell. I believe that gap is larger than many in this thread believe.

Agree the D&T board would probably be too far the other way

 

[Blue and Silver]

Good on Zach for making that coaches team but the way the team was picked is somewhat misleading, he was voted 100th overall and therefore the highest in the small defender category. Sam Mitchell came 8th but didn't make the team. He also came 3rd in the Brownlow and in hawthorns b&f.

I don't think that team can be used to argue the difference in value between touhy and Tom mitchell. I believe that gap is larger than many in this thread believe.

Agree the D&T board would probably be too far the other way

But you wouldn't select Sam Mitchell in a back pocket.

The point of the award is to honour the players who are best at their role. Tuohy was considered the best back pocket.

Tom Mitchell wouldn't crack the top 20 players as a centreman, maybe not the top 50. So the question then comes down to how important is Mitchell to Sydney and how much would he be worth to Carlton and vice versa for Tuohy. If you ask me a straight swap isn't insanity

 

[Dramoth]

Radar: Joshua Scott.

As in Josh Scott who was playing SANFL for Glenelg?

 

[Dramoth]

If there are multiple clubs after Mitchell (again, an established gun) why would they accept such a meagre trade?

Would we accept Rampe for Cripps? Some serious overrating of Tuohy and underrating of Mitchell.

Because Mitchell is out of contract and can be seen as being surplus to requirements. Tuohy is a required player at Carlton who could be obtained by another club for the right price.

Why is it that people seriously underrate our players and overrate other teams? Why are all of our players shit and not worth a decent trade? I bet you were sitting back thinking "geez we were lucky to get a future first round pick for Henderson because the way he played this year, he is only worth a third round pick... damned we were lucky to rip Geelong off like that".

If the market is there for any player, clubs will pay what the market value of a player is. If there are more than one club chasing a player... then it's a bidding war and we benefit.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Because Mitchell is out of contract and can be seen as being surplus to requirements. Tuohy is a required player at Carlton who could be obtained by another club for the right price.

Why is it that people seriously underrate our players and overrate other teams? Why are all of our players shit and not worth a decent trade? I bet you were sitting back thinking "geez we were lucky to get a future first round pick for Henderson because the way he played this year, he is only worth a third round pick... damned we were lucky to rip Geelong off like that".

If the market is there for any player, clubs will pay what the market value of a player is. If there are more than one club chasing a player... then it's a bidding war and we benefit.

Tuohy is not worth as much as Mitchell.. and I don't think anyone's under-rating him, that's just simply the truth. It's comparatively much easier to find another player to slot into a half-back flanker role than it is to find a mid who is rapidly improving, is a ball magnet, is only 23, who is a two way player (something our entire midfield lacks), is a big time tackler, and who has shown an ability to go head to head with elite players but also nullify them.

If anything, by saying Tuohy is worth Mitchell we are criminally under-rating Tom Mitchell.

 

[Blue and Silver]

I wouldn't say no to Mitchell, but if we're honest, he's a ball magnet, but burns it a fair bit, lacks serious impact per possession and won't be a revolutionary player by any means

 

[ray8182]

I wouldn't say no to Mitchell, but if we're honest, he's a ball magnet, but burns it a fair bit, lacks serious impact per possession and won't be a revolutionary player by any means

I must admit l haven't noticed Tom Mitchell wasting possessions. He's not a penetrating kick or overly creative but has very sharp, quick, clean hands and if hawthorn are keen it's because he's efficient with his disposal.

I don't consider touhy and Mitchell to be on the same level. Mitchell is far more important. I'm feel sure if it was put to non Carlton, non Sydney fans they wouldn't hesitate to take Mitchell first.

Do you take a 23 year old midfielder who's gets 30 possessions a week over a 26 year old small defender who gets 20 possessions a week?

If we got pick 25 for touhy l would be very happy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Baggers]

I'm reading a lot of pick up this bloke pick up that bloke, it was less than 12 months ago that we decided to rebuild. Rebuilding involves moving on dead wood (Jamo, walker etc) and bringing in talented kids (weiters, plow etc), sometimes we need to offload experienced players (yaz, Menzel and MAYBE 2E) to get the picks Sos requires for the rebuild.

 

[Bluey24]

Anyone else of the opinion that Brisbane will get a priority selection this year?

This will obvs bump us down to pick 5 or 6, but it may also mean that the Lions will be more willing to trade their 2nd rounder.

 

[Blue Baggers]

Anyone else of the opinion that Brisbane will get a priority selection this year?

This will obvs bump us down to pick 5 or 6, but it may also mean that the Lions will be more willing to trade their 2nd rounder.

If they get a priority pick it will be after the first round, they are more likely going to get financial concessions like a retention allowance.

 

[Wickzki]

Such as?

I truly can't fathom how the argument has escalated. The difference between how you perceive Mitchell and how Sydney perceive Mitchell and how you perceive Touhy and how the rest of the comp perceives Tuohy is cataclysmic.

Again - post that trade suggestion in the Tom Mitchell thread on the T&D forum and see what sort of response you'll get.

I did not once suggest that they were equal in trade. Look at my comment. Please don't put words into my mouth. I have never even equated Tuohy's value to Mitchell's. Not once.

I was merely responding to what you had said about Mitchell having 10+ years left compared to Tuohy's 5. If he, Mitchell, gets more than 8 (at absolute most) out of his body I will be shocked. He has finally got his body right this year (meaning it already has wear and tear) and is already 23. The majority of his type of mid are generally breaking down by their late twenties (27-29) and out of the league soon thereafter. He also hasn't had the blessed run that marks him as the exception to that rule.

 

[footyfan1978]

Anyone else of the opinion that Brisbane will get a priority selection this year?

I believe they will.
When Gil says he expects Brisbane to apply for one off his own bat I read that as saying the Lions will get one if they apply.
Don't remember in past the CEO openly encouraging a club to apply for a priority pick. I think it is subtle hint to try to soften the blow of when they get it.

They not had Dayne Beams or Rockliff for quite a few matches, their best two mids on list.
Also not had Christensen and Bell for much of it which is next tier down. I think Hanley also missed quite a bit of start of season.
Merrett and Josh Green have missed chunks of games and recent times number one ruck Stefan Martin been out. That has certainly hurt their chances of winning more games than just the two they have. They also openly took a policy of playing more young players than normal to fast track those youngsters match tally. The equivalent for us would be players Foster, Clem Smith, Whiley, Dick, Rainbow and Gorringe got 8 to 10 games each. We would have copped a few more hidings too if we had done that. Would they have won more games than us if Beams, Christensen, Merrett and Bell had played a lot more games ?

They have quite a few injuries to some of their promising youngsters like McStay, Clarke and Freeman.
Actually Justin Clarke has retired because of his physical issues.

Is their list worst than us. I suspect so, just. They would be 18th and us 17th best lists.
Essendon with Heppell. Hurley, Watson, Hooker, Hibberd, Stanton, Myers, Bellchambers & Pears active would be better than both of ours.
We will struggle to get a pick in top 5 because of these circumstances and the fact we play both of these teams in last 3 rounds and we will probably beat them and end up going above Richmond and probably Gold Coast.
At this rate we are looking to have pick 7 in the draft I reckon after all that plays out, which will not be fun considering how much help our own list needs. Gold Coast been hit even harder than Brisbane and the talent on their list is way better than any other sides in bottom 5. Hopefully Gold Coat win two more games somehow so they stay above us.

 

[Wickzki]

Brisbane have made the finals once since their dynasty lost to Port Adelaide in 2004.

They have made a significant loss in each of their last eight years. This includes six seasons of million dollar losses (4 of them 2+mil, 1 3.5mil)

I believe it was David King who suggested that should a team fail to make the finals for three years they should receive a priority pick (between the first and second rounds). I'd prefer to see that mark be five years but either way they fit the gap (we wouldn't). They last made the finals in 2009. As poor as we have been we've made it in 2010, 2011 and 2013.

Brisbane's average home attendance has dropped from safely in the 20,000s to under 20,000 each of the past two seasons and things have gotten worse this year.

They need much more than a priority pick which truth be told I hope that they get this year.

Re: Gold Coast -- they should beat Essendon and they have a home game against the Power to close the season. Port need Hawthorn and Sydney to beat North and for them to beat Melbourne (at MCG) and Adelaide to have any mathematical chance come round 23 (still require North to lose to GWS) but I don't think that would happen. If they are indeed eliminated by then then I can see GCS getting an easy win against a Port team with nothing, not even a home crowd, to play for. If not then Port should trash them. The problem is that North play their last game at the same start time as the Port Vs GCS game so Port will come out blazing if they're still a chance. Unless St. Kilda upset the Swans this week their low percentage would rule them out (though they do have Richmond and Brisbane to close).

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I'm reading a lot of pick up this bloke pick up that bloke, it was less than 12 months ago that we decided to rebuild. Rebuilding involves moving on dead wood (Jamo, walker etc) and bringing in talented kids (weiters, plow etc), sometimes we need to offload experienced players (yaz, Menzel and MAYBE 2E) to get the picks Sos requires for the rebuild.

The blokes we're talking about are all talented kids. Sometimes its better to take the bird in the hand than the one in the bush.

Notice how no-one is talking about taking players like Hurley or Barlow, were focussed on 24 and under only.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Anyone else of the opinion that Brisbane will get a priority selection this year?

This will obvs bump us down to pick 5 or 6, but it may also mean that the Lions will be more willing to trade their 2nd rounder.

They won't.

 

[Coops93]

Sorry, where has this Tuohy is being traded stuff come from? Has someone reputable told us that's what they're planning? Or just the forums agreed that's what we should do?

Fwiw, I'd rather keep him than get pick 20 odd. The last few weeks his form has picked up again.

 

[Funk]

Sorry, where has this Tuohy is being traded stuff come from? Has someone reputable told us that's what they're planning? Or just the forums agreed that's what we should do?

Fwiw, I'd rather keep him than get pick 20 odd. The last few weeks his form has picked up again.

He was our top goal kicker last week.

He has to go!!!

 

[Coops93]

He was our top goal kicker last week.

He has to go!!!

We don't take kindly to goal kicking types round' these parts!

 

[LanceRomance]

Blue Baggers

Jamo and Walker dont deserve to be called deadwood

 

[Iamcarlton]

Just been having a look on the afl website -
( You are the list manager ) scroll down to the richmond and north dream trade its a cracker! Tigers- Ty vickery who is a RFA and a second round pick for Michael Hurley . And some other pearlers not sure how they could put some of these to print .
Big laugh