Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Blue and Silver]

Even if we don't dump Dick, Foster & Rowe at the end of the season, we're in greater need of defenders than forwards.

Going into next season with just Plowman, Weitering, Jamison, White, Jaksch and JGM would be threadbare unless JGM kicks on quickly and we elevate him.

How many KPD do you think the club should have?

At Hawthorn:

Josh Gibson (undersized)
James Frawley
Angus Litherland
Ryan Schoenmakers
Ben Stratton (undersized)
Matt Spangher

At West Coast:

Mitchell Brown
Eric Mackenzie
Jeremy McGovern
Will Schofield

It looks like we might be overloading tbh

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I know he's bit of a biscuit, and I can't see it happening, but I'd love it if we signed Michael Hurley as a DFA. Love it .

 

[Jimmae]

How many KPD do you think the club should have?

At Hawthorn:

Josh Gibson (undersized)
James Frawley
Angus Litherland
Ryan Schoenmakers
Ben Stratton (undersized)
Matt Spangher

At West Coast:

Mitchell Brown
Eric Mackenzie
Jeremy McGovern
Will Schofield

It looks like we might be overloading tbh

Schoenmakers is a forward, Brown has been injured for a year. You've also left out Barrass for West Coast, as well as Fitzpatrick, Heatherley and a whole host of 6'3" utilities who can play at either end for Hawthorn.

Hell, what about Birchall? He can play 3rd tall. I'm just talking about drafting at least one tall defender next year.

 

[zeeCFC]

Tomlinson will drop in price IMO. He's got too much competition this year. Cameron, Stewart, Patton will play more and their midfield should push him off a wing. Marchbank is highly rated though and he looks good so far...I get the feeling he'd welcome a return to Victoria and I wouldn't be surprised if we've already been in his ear.

The midfield still needs a heap of work too. Kerridge is a very welcome addition though and hopefully Cuningham makes good progress along with a Clem Smith or DVR.

The Ciarans will have to be upgraded and there are only like 4 or 5 obvious delistings at the moment. SOS may go brutal list cull again and cut close to 10 players but there'll be some very harsh calls if you look at our list.

Pay out Jones, then the rest in danger of delisting at this stage (very far out I know) are probably Foster, Dick, Gorringe, Armfield, Tutt and as much as I hate saying it, Clem and DVR might go like Holman did. That's 8 and I'm being harsh. Two rookie upgrades + 4 draft picks + two other pick ups maybe from future draft trades.

 

[1981]

Hawthorn don't need great big defenders because they control the game so well up the field.
They have HBs who are exceptional users of it.

 

[zeeCFC]

Jamison, Weitering, White, Plowman, JGM should be okay going forward with Jaksch able to play back too. Byrne can play slightly taller too. #NoTokenArmfieldCHBjoke

 

[Coona Blues]

Jamison, Weitering, White, Plowman, JGM should be okay going forward with Jaksch able to play back too. Byrne can play slightly taller too. #NoTokenArmfieldCHBjoke

The first half of the season will tell our brains trust where we are at with defenders.
Assuming Rowe written off - although not cast in stone
Jammo is contracted this year and next and will continue to be a valuable cog.
Weitering is ahead of his age, and will be a lock from day one.
Plowman is expected to be a best 22 player. Can play KPD, ideal 3rd tall and talk of midfield potential.
Glass-McCasker is a huge piece of the puzzle. Big body, athletic and fast. Excellent lockdown defender in under 18 series despite being relatively "new" to the game. I have very high hopes.
Jaksch has the skills and ability. Let's see if he is made of the right stuff. Will become apparent soon enough.
Foster has been given scant respect by most on here. Only in his 2nd year, with his first punctuated by injury
including an LTI. Being groomed as a swingman and would be incredibly valuable given our list profile if he can
make the grade.
Three of Weitering(18), Plowman(21), Glass-McCasker(19), Jaksch(21) and Foster(20) will surely form a quality defence.
If these 5 all prove themselves AFL quality players we do not need to contemplate the need to trade or draft key
defenders for 5 years. Committing draft picks or our minimal trade collateral to add to the mix seems a poor use
of resources. Barring underwhelming years from Jaksch and Foster, I see them essential to our list going forward.

Our forwards are a different matter
McKay just turned 18, so will need time. Is however an excellent prospect
Charlie Curnow at 19 is more forward than midfielder, but may not remain that way. Has development to go.
Jack Silvagni another at 18 and may end up undersized for a KPP, but equally has a little more skill and poise
than your average forward. Not sure of his tank, but could end up spending time in the midfield also.
The above mentioned Jaksch and Foster have just as many forward credentials as defensive, perhaps more.
Jones has failed to meet standards after plenty of chances, the only question seems to be if he plays out his
contract.
Gorringe needs to elevate from athlete to footballer to be considered long term.
Casboult is a solid marking forward / ruck, but is hardly the guy to lead the attack for 2 or 3 years while the
boys develop. Unless Phillips/Gorringe/Korcheck rise to great heights, Levi likely to revert to 2nd ruck status
when the "boys" become best 22.

Given the age of our hopefully elite young forwards, we are going to need a mature body who is at least a solid
competitor who can command the opposition's best key defender.
We were definitely after Tomlinson last year, he is not a "star", but is good enough to "do the job", a genuine competitor, and versatile enough to move to a different role if and when the youngsters go past him up forward. Failing a suitable deal, we must look at free agency, where the pickings are a little thin.

We have enough young, developing key position players on our list. Surely we use our top draft picks on midfielders (or perhaps an x-factor small forward/midfielder in Ainsworth and a "solid citizen" with our second).

 

[Iamcarlton]

I reckon Dale Thomas's position at the club is untenable.Hopefully he can find some form during the season so that we can trade him for a pick 16 to20.
Should land us a quality player and give Dale another shot somewhere else, a fresh environment may just be what he needs.

Do you really think any club would give up a pick that high for an injury prone what 28 year old ?

 

[zeeCFC]

Dale Thomas has no trade value.

 

[Omega Blue]

What about Tom mcdonalds from Melbourne, probably no chance to leave because he seems happy and his brother is there but surely worth being part of the conversation.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I wouldn't do that trade personally, think our first pick (likely to be a top 3 pick) is too much to give up for a top heavy draft

Prefer to concentrate on Tomlinson, would try and trade our second rounder and a fringe player or flip flop of later picks, I just don't think giving up a top 3 pick for a 2 for 1 deal is a good move for us.

Yes that hasn't worked out so well to date the last time we did that

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Do you really think any club would give up a pick that high for an injury prone what 28 year old ?

I wish the AFL could be more flexible with the cap, such as us being able to pay Daisy out at the end of this season, without his remaining years (is it one or two) on his contract being beholden to our salary cap (I heard what he is earning is close what has been reported in the media)

I actually like Daisy Thomas, I think he's a likeable enough young man, and shouldn't be held personally responsible for Eddie leaving (that's a cross for other people have left the club to bear) but if his ankles/body is shot (and all evidence I've seen is that) then an amicable parting of the ways of both parties at season's end would be for the best.

Sadly Dill McLaughlin and The AFL commission don't seem to want to do us any favours.

If we can get Daisy off our books by 2017, we can/could make a serious offer for Hulk Hogan.

The 2017 Free Agency/Trade Period will be much more exciting then this year's IMO.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I wish the AFL could be more flexible with the cap, such as us being able to pay Daisy out at the end of this season, without his remaining years (is it one or two) on his contract being beholden to our salary cap (I heard what he is earning is close what has been reported in the media)

I actually like Daisy Thomas, I think he's a likeable enough young man, and shouldn't be held personally responsible for Eddie leaving (that's a cross for other people have left the club to bear) but if his ankles/body is shot (and all evidence I've seen is that) then an amicable parting of the ways of both parties at season's end would be for the best.

Sadly Dill McLaughlin and The AFL commission don't seem to want to do us any favours.

If we can get Daisy off our books by 2017, we can/could make a serious offer for Hulk Hogan.

The 2017 Free Agency/Trade Period will be much more exciting then this year's IMO.

We had an opportunity to maybe draft a hogan type this year in schaeche and passed for weitering thankfully I hope . That's a whole lot of money and probably 2 first rounders and a player to land hogan . And potentially very decent midfielders with those picks given up in the draft to get him . I'd rather look at the draft next year while we are down the bottom to bring another key forward if that's what we are after ?

 

[DangerousD]

I reckon Dale Thomas's position at the club is untenable.Hopefully he can find some form during the season so that we can trade him for a pick 16 to20.
Should land us a quality player and give Dale another shot somewhere else, a fresh environment may just be what he needs.

where are getting 16-20 from? If Daisy position is untenable and he is shot who would give a top 20 pick? I'd take anything for him.

 

[DangerousD]

Would pick 19 in this years draft and our 2nd rounder next year's Say a pick 25, get then both across the Line?

Funny that some are saying that this isn't enough as i think it's overs. I think Marchback for 19 is a good deal but the worth of Tomlinson is a little more difficult. Tomlinson so far has not cemented his spot in the GWS side and has yet to develop in to a consistent performer. A lot will depend on his output this year. If he plays every week and has a breakout year then his worth will be up around pick 20 but if McCarthy or Patton come back and knock him out of the team his value will drop to the late 20's or early 30's.

 

[DangerousD]

What about Tom mcdonalds from Melbourne, probably no chance to leave because he seems happy and his brother is there but surely worth being part of the conversation.

You should no better, players don't leave a club to go backwards unless it's for a final payday.

 

[Blue Baggers]

where are getting 16-20 from? If Daisy position is untenable and he is shot who would give a top 20 pick? I'd take anything for him.

I think Daisy will have a ripper year and a few will be eating humble pie.. Well I hope so anyway

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Re KPDs, we need to keep a few on the list. Weitering looks remarkable, no doubt. The best part of it is that he's already displaying the more intangible qualities that are hard to teach.

But he's still a kid. We run the risk of ruining him if we pencil him in for 22 games at CHB or FB this year. He needs to spend 1-2 seasons playing the third tall role imo

 

[HARKER]

The first half of the season will tell our brains trust where we are at with defenders.
Assuming Rowe written off - although not cast in stone

Foster has been given scant respect by most on here. Only in his 2nd year, with his first punctuated by injury
including an LTI. Being groomed as a swingman and would be incredibly valuable given our list profile if he can
make the grade.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised should Rowe be given another year if he can perform at least half well, or better, he finds his 2014 form.

I would be surprised should Foster show something. Nothing against the kid but you can see he tries yet somehow finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know we've trialed him back but he's just about as invisible there as he can be up forward. Will take a big 2016 for him to remain, I feel.

 

[HARKER]

Tomlinson will drop in price IMO. He's got too much competition this year. Cameron, Stewart, Patton will play more and their midfield should push him off a wing. Marchbank is highly rated though and he looks good so far...I get the feeling he'd welcome a return to Victoria and I wouldn't be surprised if we've already been in his ear.

Marchbank was highly rated by us also..........although GWS are us now.......if you know what I mean.
I just have the feeling that the 'Tomlinson' ship may have sailed and that mids may be a priority. Then again maybe not. Maybe we feel that we have to get the talls in place first and that mids will fill the gaps somewhat easier. ?????????

Pay out Jones, then the rest in danger of delisting at this stage (very far out I know) are probably Foster, Dick, Gorringe, Armfield, Tutt and as much as I hate saying it, Clem and DVR might go like Holman did. That's 8 and I'm being harsh. Two rookie upgrades + 4 draft picks + two other pick ups maybe from future draft trades.

I think Gorringe may have two years. Not sure who told me so can't be sure on that.
Clem has to produce half of what he did through the pre-season to get games.....and a contract this year. Not the player I'd like to see drop off.

I think it's easy to see another 10 players being culled this year as Bolton is clear on the 'types' he wants.

 

[therubbernub]

Imagine if we got both of these guys in one foul swoop.

For all intensive purposes, please precede to discuss ........

 

[therubbernub]

Re KPDs, we need to keep a few on the list. Weitering looks remarkable, no doubt. The best part of it is that he's already displaying the more intangible qualities that are hard to teach.

But he's still a kid. We run the risk of ruining him if we pencil him in for 22 games at CHB or FB this year. He needs to spend 1-2 seasons playing the third tall role imo

Disagree . Some players you have to protect yes. Others are a step above - he is one of them. Did WCE protect Judd?

 

[HBF]

Dale Thomas has no trade value.

Yep no one will go near him.

 

[HBF]

For all intensive purposes, please precede to discuss ........

Marchbank and Tomlinson. That be almost take care of our KPP's and we can build a midfield around them. By the looks of it this years draft will be full of mids.

 

[Jabba73]

For all intensive purposes, please precede to discuss ........

This should not be disgust on this forum, back on topic!