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Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

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HARKER said:
How can they refuse to work under a system that gets ticked off on? I don't get it?

There's so much wrong in a system that allows employees to dictate the pace and no matter which way we go about things, we always get back to the fact that the fish rots at the head.........and ours was rotten........was.......fingers crossed.,
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The Sticks MO was summarised by the song he made famous. Unfortunately a number of people he had in place weren't up to it, including his recruiters. The old system has been widely discussed and picked apart by this board over the last year, the only difference between yourself and others is that a lot of supporters feel Rogers deserves a portion of blame, you feel he doesn't.
 
Doro said:
The Sticks MO was summarised by the song he made famous. Unfortunately a number of people he had in place weren't up to it, including his recruiters. The old system has been widely discussed and picked apart by this board over the last year, the only difference between yourself and others is that a lot of supporters feel Rogers deserves a portion of blame, you feel he doesn't.
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I can't help feeling (I know) that the people in charge have to wear the blame.

We can't just keep being unlucky with Ratten....Malthouse....Hughes....Rogers....Swann....you name it.
When you have no idea, you keep guessing and hoping that what you do put in place is going to work in the way that you 'envision' it to work.
Clearly our 'vision' was of a very, low standard and we've only recently admitted that to ourselves.........but........if the saying 'A leopard can't change it's spots' ever rang true, it may yet still do so here. Many of those 'spots' are the same spots, aren't they?
 
HARKER said:
I can't help feeling (I know) that the people in charge have to wear the blame.

We can't just keep being unlucky with Ratten....Malthouse....Hughes....Rogers....Swann....you name it.
When you have no idea, you keep guessing and hoping that what you do put in place is going to work in the way that you 'envision' it to work.
Clearly our 'vision' was of a very, low standard and we've only recently admitted that to ourselves.........but........if the saying 'A leopard can't change it's spots' ever rang true, it may yet still do so here. Many of those 'spots' are the same spots, aren't they?
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Sticks and Swann were in charge between 2008 and 2014. That's when the rudderless damage was done. As soon as MLG and Trigg have come on board the club has found direction again. I know you hate MLG for moving Rogers on but that's life. The club is heading the right way.
 
Doro said:
Sticks and Swann were in charge between 2008 and 2014. That's when the rudderless damage was done. As soon as MLG and Trigg have come on board the club has found direction again. I know you hate MLG for moving Rogers on but that's life. The club is heading the right way.
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I never said that. That's your imagination.

I didn't like the way we were doing business and I think I may have been right.
 

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Warsaw said:
Not high on the prospect of losing #5 and a chance at a high-end midfield talent.

Drafting is an imprecise game, but as a club you should be much confident about how a top 5 pick will pan out than someone at 15.

I still think a #15, #17 + player or Tomlinson + Marchbank are reasonable and good trades to make, but not coming out of this off-season with at least one blue-chip midfield talent would be concerning to say the least, given how poor our midfield situation is.
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Spot on.
 
HARKER said:
We're still going to make bad decisions. I'm not worried about that.

I was more concerned that we didn't have a dedicated list manager, allowing McKay, Swann, Directors...and who know who else, allowed to put their views forward strongly and massaging decisions to suit their ego's.

Reckon SOS would slam the door in your face should you start floating around your 'gut-feels' about players.....at least I want that to be the case.

SOS will make mistakes but at least he can own those mistakes and not someone in the background that feels just a little bit good for getting their way.
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i am happy with how we are now. all clubs make bad decisions. the issue with these is they made absolutely no sense, there were more than should be considered acceptable, were unnecessary and the players were paid way overs. the frustration is they are still there and the results keep staring us in the face. sooner we move them on the better. how mckay stayed is beyond me.
 
Honeychurch bog for Footscray again in the VFL.

Kid can seriously play, should be on our shopping list
 
Warsaw said:
Not high on the prospect of losing #5 and a chance at a high-end midfield talent.

Drafting is an imprecise game, but as a club you should be much confident about how a top 5 pick will pan out than someone at 15.

I still think a #15, #17 + player or Tomlinson + Marchbank are reasonable and good trades to make, but not coming out of this off-season with at least one blue-chip midfield talent would be concerning to say the least, given how poor our midfield situation is.
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Our list is still that weak that we are are going to see another GWS bundle this trade period to bolster us across the board...we would be better off using the pick 5 if required and or other combinations from other trades or second rounds etc.as well...we may not see this opprtunity again for some time from GWS or any other team...this draft is not that good but runs deep with a lot of good but not elite drafts plus we have next years bumper draft.......I just think while GWS is running hot we had better trade...Plus Marchbank can push up onto the wing as could Pickett with his pace.
 

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F the Rest said:
It's a tricky one, that's for sure. Pick 5's value ultimately comes down to Brodie and/or McGrath's chances of sliding to our pick. Let's hope SOS is feeling lucky.
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Thats it huge concern with what SOS will do....we may keep pick five or generate another first rounder off Touhey,Everitt etc....and collect a solid Mid off the draft.....but really look at last year we got Plowman and 3 more for almost nothing......and we needed them BADLY- including yes two were top ten picks........really while we have this opportunity with SOS and GWS we will be seeing more of the same to dig our list out of the hole as has been discussed above.We will also be able to draft Mids next year as well probably with an early pick....unfortunately we need a dozen top ten picks......just this year and all around the ground
 
Pick 5 should be off the table for marchbank, and if other offers aren't suffice we can always get a mature backman when we're close to challenging at the top anyway. Look at the hawks.. traded for Lake, Frawley, Gibson, Spanger, etc. Must build the midfield and get a young group growing and coming through for our next tilt at the premiership. Atm what young mids do we have coming through? Cripps and Cunningham? Yikes.
 
Tambourine said:
Pick 5 should be off the table for marchbank, and if other offers aren't suffice we can always get a mature backman when we're close to challenging at the top anyway. Look at the hawks.. traded for Lake, Frawley, Gibson, Spanger, etc. Must build the midfield and get a young group growing and coming through for our next tilt at the premiership. Atm what young mids do we have coming through? Cripps and Cunningham? Yikes.
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That's a good question but there's no way known that SOS & Bolton aren't aware of this.
Remember that we can't gauge much just yet as the trade period hasn't started and we don't know for sure what we have up our sleeve for next year.

I know one thing though: This pre-season is going to be very interesting. Expect some role changes.
 
Next year on the field we really will see a young Carlton in rebuild mode...am thinking about the same on the ladder for 2017....SOS will dig us out of the hole with his hunger to source high end resources cheaply such as Plowman ....we bring them in post op or injured and patch them up,its called being resourceful and instead of throwing it away it now is going the other way...weather its by saving high draft picks for key mids or talls or trading for multiple player off GWS for depth and potentially elite players such as Pickett we will get it done....last season we did ..we got the best deal possible,the most bang for our buck on the resource scale...now we not may be able to dictate if its mids or backs first we just have to collect what we can because we have many vacancies hence we are open to trading on a wide horizon.
 
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HARKER said:
That's a good question but there's no way known that SOS & Bolton aren't aware of this.
Remember that we can't gauge much just yet as the trade period hasn't started and we don't know for sure what we have up our sleeve for next year.

I know one thing though: This pre-season is going to be very interesting. Expect some role changes.
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Absolutely bolts and sos would be aware.

Pick 5 for a young mid, even the second pick. Snaring another mid in trade period would be a bonus.

Anyway, what role changes can u see harks?
 
Tambourine said:
Absolutely bolts and sos would be aware.
Pick 5 for a young mid, even the second pick. Snaring another mid in trade period would be a bonus.
Anyway, what role changes can u see harks?
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At a distance......

Weitering forward. I reckon this will happen eventually, or at the least trialed extensively.
Charlie Curnow in the middle. Nothing really to suggest this will happen but the pre-season is for throwing things around.
Buckley will have to have a huge pre-season if he is to stay with us. Can see him on wing.
Gorringe down back. Did bring it up early this year but can see it as a possibility.
 
I am of the opinion , that our biggest leap in performance is going to come with our midfield.
I am looking forward to a young gun mid in the parish/oliver/mills mold coming in and impacting straight away(#5 pick) I am also looking forward to see how Murphy/Gibbs/Cripps can go if they all stay on the park for the year, the synergy would be delicious ( to quote a mcAveny ism)
I also am looking forward to seeing how kerridge gets used in a more complete midfield. He has 2 great qualities- fitness and ability to tag. will he become our carazzo/Curnow? Will he be able to perform better when not being asked to be an inside mid? His spread ability is very good as he has good speed and fitness.
I am also looking forward to the continued rise of Ed Curnow , who this year started to surprise us with his skills and possession numbers.
Will Cuningham have a break out year as a break away mid?
 
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