Autopsy 2016 National Draft (NM Picks: 11; 32; 33; 80)

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Tas

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There can be only one...
Comparing the new kids to Harper and Bastinac, it does not inspire me given they were bomb-outs with our development process. Can we develop players who aren't one-paced who don't run between the arcs both ways aggressively and just stand around in the middle with arms on their hips during our kick-ins?
 

tazaa

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Comparing the new kids to Harper and Bastinac, it does not inspire me given they were bomb-outs with our development process. Can we develop players who aren't one-paced who don't run between the arcs both ways aggressively and just stand around in the middle with arms on their hips during our kick-ins?
Its all about development from here on in. Our recruiters do the work and we end up disappointed more often than not with the final product.
 

Tas

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There can be only one...
Its all about development from here on in. Our recruiters do the work and we end up disappointed more often than not with the final product.
A famous saying is, "The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result."

So what was it about our process that has failed us and what are we going to do differently? I see a bunch of old timers have been shipped off, the guys who showed ability but we failed to get to a good enough standard have also been delisted or shipped off, a few more to go... but I don't really see any talk of change in regard to the people who failed previously.

I don't really expect it to be aired publicly, but I haven't read much news about football department changes.

It is one thing if we draft a dud that shows nothing and we ditch them, but we have seen some pretty significant highs from some of the failures.
 

Tas

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I think the dual alignment VFL strategy was an abject failure which promoted the individual as opposed to group development.
Harper, Black and Bastinac were best 22, Harper & Black for an entire season and Bastinac for many seasons, I doubt the VFL alignment was a significant factor.
 

tazaa

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A famous saying is, "The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result."

So what was it about our process that has failed us and what are we going to do differently? I see a bunch of old timers have been shipped off, the guys who showed ability but we failed to get to a good enough standard have also been delisted or shipped off, a few more to go... but I don't really see any talk of change in regard to the people who failed previously.

I don't really expect it to be aired publicly, but I haven't read much news about football department changes.

It is one thing if we draft a dud that shows nothing and we ditch them, but we have seen some pretty significant highs from some of the failures.
Ive seen one too many false dawns to sit back and have faith that we will get it right.
Alas our track record with the 2013 bunch has been okay thus far. The 2014 group have yet to debut and the 2015 crop have played a total of 10 games between them - so too early to judge. I hope we start to see more success stories.

That saying with the loss of Wells and Boomer, this year out of all years I actually have taken a vested interest in the kids coming through the draft and not getting to November 25th and having NFI who we've selected. This off season will define us going forward and determine if we sink or swim in the medium term.
 

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giantroo

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TIM ENGLISH could already be on an AFL list, and his price would likely have been a lot cheaper than the early draft pick he is expected to command next month.

The West Australian ruckman was looking to register for last year's NAB AFL Draft but found difficulties when there was confusion around which WAFL club he was zoned to.

After a handful of promising appearances at school level, some recruiters tried to have him registered for Claremont's colts side, because he had to play at least one game in the under-18 system to be draft-eligible.

The WAFL rejected the application because he was actually zoned to South Fremantle (his parents have two residences, one which falls in South's country zone), and by then it was too late to register there.

He took the setback in his stride and has had an excellent season in 2016, showing consistent snippets of his talents. After a 20cm growth spurt in three years as a teenager, the 19-year-old has played at all levels for South Fremantle this season – including a senior debut – and was excellent for WA in the under-18 championships.



English is the best ruckman in this year's draft and may be one of the most exciting big men to come through the system in recent years. What makes the 205cm prospect most special is his ability to roam around the ground and pick up possessions. He has a genuine presence in the midfield.

The way English is prepared to fight for the ball at ground level gives him a point of difference from other ruckmen, and his skill level is also unusually high-class for someone his size. He is a nice link-up player through the midfield and is a confident user of the ball across the ground. He averaged 17 disposals in six games for South Fremantle's reserves side and used it at 75 per cent efficiency.

English's running ability has impressed, and at the NAB AFL Draft Combine he broke the 11-minute barrier in the 3km time-trial (running a final time of 10:55). His ruck work is quality, and he can also float forward to move naturally through the forward line and present a target there.



The question on drafting a player like English is that it will take some patience before seeing him ready to go at AFL level. He is still lean, and needs a couple of years in the gym before he'll be able to match it with other senior ruckmen.

That has come through even as an under-18, with the big man only averaging one contested mark a game at colts level in WA. He is unlikely to be the big, bustling ruckman who busts opens games through physicality and will instead rely more on his skill and athleticism to work over opponents.

His agility test at the combine (9.16 seconds) was also the slowest of any player to compete at Etihad Stadium.



English's loping running style and ball use for a big man has drawn comparisons to West Coast great Dean Cox. Of the current-day players, Rory Lobb might be the best comparison. English is raw, like Lobb was when Greater Western Sydney picked him in 2013, but can shift forward and use his athleticism around the ground.



If the cards fall a certain way, you wouldn't count out English being in Greater Western Sydney's sights at pick No.2. If not there, English looks likely to be selected somewhere in the first dozen or so picks. Fremantle seems a possible suitor at pick No.7.



Recruiters are all about upside, and English might have the most in the pool. He seems to have only scratched the surface of his talent. Clubs don't generally like to use early picks on ruckmen but the West Australian is a real talent. From a list manager's perspective, he can fill an important role at a club for a long time.

 

tiltraise

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Harper, Black and Bastinac were best 22, Harper & Black for an entire season and Bastinac for many seasons, I doubt the VFL alignment was a significant factor.
Basti played 17 games in his last season at the club which suggests he was still thereabouts in regards B22. He was moved on due to a combination of structural, tpp and trade currency reasons.

Black + Harper were both B22 for a time however once their form tapered perhaps in part due to injury the were sucked into the dual alignment black hole and never heard from again. Black may have been a victim of Waite's recruitment to a certain extent also however having listened to his manager a few times I get the feeling he may have resented rather than embraced the challenge that the Waite inclusion provided.

Finally does anyone attribute any small part of the Dogs success this year to them going with a stand alone VFL team?
 

tiltraise

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TIM ENGLISH could already be on an AFL list, and his price would likely have been a lot cheaper than the early draft pick he is expected to command next month.

The West Australian ruckman was looking to register for last year's NAB AFL Draft but found difficulties when there was confusion around which WAFL club he was zoned to.

After a handful of promising appearances at school level, some recruiters tried to have him registered for Claremont's colts side, because he had to play at least one game in the under-18 system to be draft-eligible.

The WAFL rejected the application because he was actually zoned to South Fremantle (his parents have two residences, one which falls in South's country zone), and by then it was too late to register there.

He took the setback in his stride and has had an excellent season in 2016, showing consistent snippets of his talents. After a 20cm growth spurt in three years as a teenager, the 19-year-old has played at all levels for South Fremantle this season – including a senior debut – and was excellent for WA in the under-18 championships.



English is the best ruckman in this year's draft and may be one of the most exciting big men to come through the system in recent years. What makes the 205cm prospect most special is his ability to roam around the ground and pick up possessions. He has a genuine presence in the midfield.

The way English is prepared to fight for the ball at ground level gives him a point of difference from other ruckmen, and his skill level is also unusually high-class for someone his size. He is a nice link-up player through the midfield and is a confident user of the ball across the ground. He averaged 17 disposals in six games for South Fremantle's reserves side and used it at 75 per cent efficiency.

English's running ability has impressed, and at the NAB AFL Draft Combine he broke the 11-minute barrier in the 3km time-trial (running a final time of 10:55). His ruck work is quality, and he can also float forward to move naturally through the forward line and present a target there.



The question on drafting a player like English is that it will take some patience before seeing him ready to go at AFL level. He is still lean, and needs a couple of years in the gym before he'll be able to match it with other senior ruckmen.

That has come through even as an under-18, with the big man only averaging one contested mark a game at colts level in WA. He is unlikely to be the big, bustling ruckman who busts opens games through physicality and will instead rely more on his skill and athleticism to work over opponents.

His agility test at the combine (9.16 seconds) was also the slowest of any player to compete at Etihad Stadium.



English's loping running style and ball use for a big man has drawn comparisons to West Coast great Dean Cox. Of the current-day players, Rory Lobb might be the best comparison. English is raw, like Lobb was when Greater Western Sydney picked him in 2013, but can shift forward and use his athleticism around the ground.



If the cards fall a certain way, you wouldn't count out English being in Greater Western Sydney's sights at pick No.2. If not there, English looks likely to be selected somewhere in the first dozen or so picks. Fremantle seems a possible suitor at pick No.7.



Recruiters are all about upside, and English might have the most in the pool. He seems to have only scratched the surface of his talent. Clubs don't generally like to use early picks on ruckmen but the West Australian is a real talent. From a list manager's perspective, he can fill an important role at a club for a long time.

Really hard to place in this years order for mine but I would be very surprised if he went top 10.

Port have a couple of selections late in the 1R and with Ryder aging and Lobbe struggling I had them taking him in my early mock.
 

tiltraise

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Apart from Ziebell, Cunnington, Swallow, Jacobs and Dumont, do we have any other pure inside midfielders? I can't seem to think of many.

Wouldn't be surprised if we pick one with one of our first 3 picks. Hopefully a later pick.
Anderson is an inside mid for mine however I can envisage us taking a Drew, Fisher or Scharenberg type with one of 32 or 33.
 
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Really hard to place in this years order for mine but I would be very surprised if he went top 10.

Port have a couple of selections late in the 1R and with Ryder aging and Lobbe struggling I had them taking him in my early mock.
Freo might be tempted elsewhere but surely a home grown ruckman should be top of the list considering their stocks in a years time.
 

The chorus

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Basti played 17 games in his last season at the club which suggests he was still thereabouts in regards B22. He was moved on due to a combination of structural, tpp and trade currency reasons.

Black + Harper were both B22 for a time however once their form tapered perhaps in part due to injury the were sucked into the dual alignment black hole and never heard from again. Black may have been a victim of Waite's recruitment to a certain extent also however having listened to his manager a few times I get the feeling he may have resented rather than embraced the challenge that the Waite inclusion provided.

Finally does anyone attribute any small part of the Dogs success this year to them going with a stand alone VFL team?
Does anyone attribute Hawthorn's three successive premierships to their alignment with Box Hill? Or does anyone attribute Richmond and Collingwood's failure to make finals to them going with stand alone VFL teams?
 

DaveyBoy123

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Apart from Ziebell, Cunnington, Swallow, Jacobs and Dumont, do we have any other pure inside midfielders? I can't seem to think of many.

Wouldn't be surprised if we pick one with one of our first 3 picks. Hopefully a later pick.
Maybe not, but I'd say 5 pure inside mids is enough... Especially when all of them are arguably best 22. I understand you're probably looking 2-3 years in advance, but I don't see 3 of those 5 going anywhere in the next 3 years anyway.
 

tiltraise

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Does anyone attribute Hawthorn's three successive premierships to their alignment with Box Hill? Or does anyone attribute Richmond and Collingwood's failure to make finals to them going with stand alone VFL teams?
I did say "any small part" which you seem to have overlooked and no mention of Geelong?

Its an interesting debate. Hawks 3 peat has been mostly based around their senior core. If its all about incremental gains and we are seeing a number of clubs move in the direction of stand alone teams is it something that should be dismissed out of hand?
 

remfan101

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So I've read a bunch of draft profiles online and watched some videos which basically makes me an expert ;) I've decided to look at our selections more in a "draft board" manner, as we don't really know who will be available at those picks. Have gone only with mids as that is the biggest weak spot on our list, but I'd love to see us pick up a project ruck in the rookie draft (pick 87 is reserved for whoever Hawthorn were planning to get)

Pick 11:
  • 1. Sam Petrevski-Seton (181cm, 74kg general midfielder/half-forward) Speedy half-forward/midfielder who loves to bring his teammates into the game and can use the ball well with both feet. Player comparison Daniel Wells, has the freakish ability to find a target in congestion, either by hand or foot.
  • 2. Tim Taranto (186cm, 82kg general midfielder/half-forward) Athletic forward that can play through the midfield. Very good in traffic, helped by his basketball background. Willing to give the ball off to teammates in better positions. Strong overhead mark means he has the ability to play deeper inside 50, where he has plenty of smarts and can hit the scoreboard.
  • 3. Daniel Venables (186cm, 81kg inside midfielder/half-forward) A powerful and smart user of the footy, Venables is an aggressive midfielder who can break through opposition tackles. Powerful burst from a stoppage and can hit the scoreboard. Yet to see a full complete game from him, as he’ll flash in and out of games. Venables is explosive, tough and quick, and powers himself at the contests before bursting away.
  • 4. Oliver Florent (183cm, 74kg outside midfielder/half-forward) Exciting half forward/outside midfielder. In his usual eye catching orange boots, Florent has X-Factor around the ball inside 50. Outside midfielder who is a capable overhead mark. Generally a good kick around the ground, but does have the ability to shank the odd kick on the run. Looks likely to start his AFL career as a half forward and push onto a wing. Has been compared to Andrew Gaff.
Picks 32,33:
  • 1. Cedric Cox (184cm, 70kg outside midfielder/half-back) Neat outside midfielder who can play at both ends of the ground. Looks best suited to half-back, where he can use his speed to burn off his opponents. Is a dual footed kicker and is willing to use both his left and right foot in any situation. Can fade in and out of games, and will take time to develop both in a physical and footballing sense.
  • 2. Zac Fisher (175cm, 65kg midfielder) The sharp West Australian on-baller averaged 21 disposals in four games at the championships, and was also ranked seventh across the division one carnival for clearances. He is short, but that hasn't stopped him from racking up the ball, using it well and then bolting to the next contest and getting it again. Fisher is quick with his hands, gets the ball moving and takes the game forward. Has been likened to Lachie Neale and I would back him to be a better player than Florent who many have us taking at 11, but he should still be there at 32 largely due to his height and slight frame.
  • 3. Jordan Gallucci (183cm, 76kg general midfielder) Gallucci brings some zip to the draft class. He can dash past opponents and get on the move in tight spots, and he enjoys taking a bounce and tucking the ball under his arm. A professional and dedicated prospect, the midfielder is Vic Metro's co-captain for the under-18 championships and leads by example.
  • 4. Joe Atley (186cm, 84kg inside midfielder) The younger brother of North Melbourne half-back Shaun, Atley is a different type of player. The Bendigo Pioneers captain is an inside ball-winning midfielder who burrows into contests and comes out with the footy in his hand. He's smart at stoppages and likes to feed the ball out. Has a good turn of speed and can accelerate away from opponents, as well as being a solid user of the ball.

    ...thoughts y'all?
 

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Apart from Ziebell, Cunnington, Swallow, Jacobs and Dumont, do we have any other pure inside midfielders? I can't seem to think of many.

Wouldn't be surprised if we pick one with one of our first 3 picks. Hopefully a later pick.
I think that's our problem is we have too many one dimensional players. Swallow, Cunnington, Ziebell, Dumont, Jacobs are too indside and Boomer, Dal Santo, Higgins, Atley are too outside which led to an imbalance and inability to get our game going all season.

In today's game you need to be good at both to be succesful; Bontempelli, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Parker.

What we should be looking at in this draft are players who can both win the inside ball and deliver the footy.

I think we will take Venables with our first pick with that in mind.
 
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