2016 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Cont. in Part 2 (link in OP)

[ad victoriam]

Curious question, 34 players affected, Essendon list was 44 with rookies, what happen to the other 10 and why did they not partake in the injections and where are they now. I remember Kyle Reimers being vocal about it and shot down by parts of the media, Who were the others and did they find themselves on the outer for refusing, If so what is there comeback.

 

[Cap]

I am certain we would chase compo too if we were in the same position.

what for? he said himself they went in with their eyes open?

I'll be interested on what basis he'll try and sue.

 

[Scrotes2000]

For a moment forget everything that has happened now and just go back to the original punishment the AFL gave the Bombers. Do you believe that it was the correct?

What do people think would have been fair?

Losing more picks?
Another monetary fine?

I know when you compare it with our sanctions it doesn't look right. Maybe set penalties are the way to go so there's not so much wiggle room.

Have to keep in mind the AFL would never allow Essendon to fold. Hit them too hard and they need help staying viable - that could be a pretty big drain on resources. Where does that money come from?

 

[dogs105]

I've got one if you want :/

I expected the ALFPA to come out to bat for the players, but I'm quite disappointed with the response from the AFL. We all were made aware that Essendon's previous penalties were only for "governance" issues, so for them to escape further draft sanctions following the CAS decision seems incredibly lenient. McDevitt and ASADA who can hold their heads up high, and I'm only sympathetic towards Doc Reid - earlier on the AFL tried to make him the fall guy, but the CAS findings support that he was kept in the dark.

Cheers, thank you.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Jobe Watson's testimony labelled BS despite his father believing in it.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ess...ration-for-sport/story-e6frf3e3-1227707163076

Seriously, how dumb were these players? Who gave them such amateurish legal advice? The whole 'Its not my fault, I just did as I am told defence' was always destined to be smashed for six by any half arsed legal opposition in the face of the actual rules on an international stage. If anything the AFL was shown to be nothing short of a two bit amateurish operation, with equally childish attitudes. The more I read the more I am floored by the monumental stupidity of all involved. The players should certainly get their money back from their lawyers for just basic incompetence.

 

[adelaidecrows]

what for? he said himself they went in with their eyes open?

I'll be interested on what basis he'll try and sue.

Perhaps things have come out through the release of the CAS documents that Essendon had previously held back, especially in the weight of evidence in favour of the use of TB4, the players floored ASADA testimonies etc, the players involved in the secrecy campaign. Port may have known a smidgen of it but I am sure it was eye opening to them yesterday as it was for the rest of the comp.

 

[Cap]

Perhaps things have come out through the release of the CAS documents that Essendon had previously held back, especially in the weight of evidence in favour of the use of TB4, the players floored ASADA testimonies etc, the players involved in the secrecy campaign. Port may have known a smidgen of it but I am sure it was eye opening to them yesterday as it was for the rest of the comp.

that is all true - It would be interesting what a judge would say given that going into the transaction everyone knew there was a chance Ryder could be suspended for up to two years, he only got 1 year, so it just doesn't make any sense how Port would recieve damages given Port and Essendon had pretty much the same information at the time of the transaction.

lucky i'm not a legal person becuase the only damages I can see for port is the wages of the two players - maybe a loss of porducivity? I guess Port being Port they'd claim for loss of income from the premership they didn't win.

edit- reading the article, Koch apparently wants to sue on an ethical basis - well because he doesn't agree with the way Essendon handled it, so in short, he won't sue.

 

[Captain Morgan]

What do people think would have been fair?

Losing more picks?
Another monetary fine?

I know when you compare it with our sanctions it doesn't look right. Maybe set penalties are the way to go so there's not so much wiggle room.

Have to keep in mind the AFL would never allow Essendon to fold. Hit them too hard and they need help staying viable - that could be a pretty big drain on resources. Where does that money come from?

The thing I learnt from this mess is that if you are a big melbourne club you can do whatever you want as the afl will never let you die

 

[treeman]

Curious question, 34 players affected, Essendon list was 44 with rookies, what happen to the other 10 and why did they not partake in the injections and where are they now. I remember Kyle Reimers being vocal about it and shot down by parts of the media, Who were the others and did they find themselves on the outer for refusing, If so what is there comeback.

I'm curious to know this too.

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[Deaneus!]

Josh Jenkins must be thanking our Club today for drafting him before this shit happened.

For the Grace of God goes he

 

[treeman]

For the Grace of God goes he

He should sign tomorrow because of it.

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[adelaidecrows]

that is all true - It would be interesting what a judge would say given that going into the transaction everyone knew there was a chance Ryder could be suspended for up to two years, he only got 1 year, so it just doesn't make any sense how Port would recieve damages given Port and Essendon had pretty much the same information at the time of the transaction.

lucky i'm not a legal person becuase the only damages I can see for port is the wages of the two players - maybe a loss of porducivity? I guess Port being Port they'd claim for loss of income from the premership they didn't win.

Thats not true. Essendon and the players legal team have a full copy of the evidence against them as their right to create a defence. If they held back information than it is still fraudulent. At the time of the Ryder transaction in 2014 the talk was taking a deal for 3 months over summer, some deals only consisted of a few weeks off for the season. Port had in fairness no way to predict it would go so horribly wrong as they were obviously not privy to the full weight of the evidence. I think its too easy to sit back and judge. I would expect the AFC to chase down compo had we been in exactly the same boat.

 

[Bovo]

Cannot believe the stance of the AFL and in particular Gill Mclaughlin!

Their No 1 priority now (according to the above) is to get Essendon back on track!!....sorry wrong answer......No1* priority must be to make sure the "club culture" that he pined over does not allow this archaic attitude to ruin young players lives and careers in future..........Essendon's plight is self inflicted and they must now suffer the consequences. To no other club's expense.

There should be a major enquiry regarding "club culture" and its "win at all costs" consequences for those who are its victims.
This is the original cause of the problem Gill. The players families want answers. They couldn't care less about the Bombers.




*Essendon should be #259 on his list of priorities right behind seagull eradication at the MCG.

Seagull eradication should be #1!!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The Brownlow should just be not awarded for 2012.

Don't think they declared the Runners Up of Tour de France to Amrstrong as winners.

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It's different to the TDF, as most of the top riders were on the gear, so they didn't know who was clean & deserving of the win.

In this case, Watson should just be treated like any suspended player with an "*" & goes to the next vote getters (Cotchin & Mitchell), who are deserving after great seasons. It's not like their performances were also tainted,

 

[adelaidecrows]

It's different to the TDF, as most of the top riders were on the gear, so they didn't know who was clean & deserving of the win.

In this case, Watson should just be treated like any suspended player with an "*" & goes to the next vote getters (Cotchin & Mitchell), who are deserving after great seasons. It's not like their performances were also tainted,

What else can be done really.

 

[footy4ever]

that is all true - It would be interesting what a judge would say given that going into the transaction everyone knew there was a chance Ryder could be suspended for up to two years, he only got 1 year, so it just doesn't make any sense how Port would recieve damages given Port and Essendon had pretty much the same information at the time of the transaction.

lucky i'm not a legal person becuase the only damages I can see for port is the wages of the two players - maybe a loss of porducivity? I guess Port being Port they'd claim for loss of income from the premership they didn't win.

edit- reading the article, Koch apparently wants to sue on an ethical basis - well because he doesn't agree with the way Essendon handled it, so in short, he won't sue.

LOL Kochy is so full of his own self importance. He's an expert in everything so there's no need to go to court. They should realise this and give him everything he wants.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

They gave up pick 48 for him. Maybe the AFL should give Port pick 48 in this years draft?

From Essendon's picks, similar to how they have up points for Father & Sons.

 

[treeman]

An interesting look at what the players can do in terms of sueing the club. On Tasmania Talks with Brian Carlton aka Spoonman

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[Kane McGoodwin]

So if essendon don't have to pay their players this year , can they massively front end contracts and have a crack at some big names next year?

The AFL would have to remove an excess cap to prevent this.

 

[Jonts]

Curious question, 34 players affected, Essendon list was 44 with rookies, what happen to the other 10 and why did they not partake in the injections and where are they now. I remember Kyle Reimers being vocal about it and shot down by parts of the media, Who were the others and did they find themselves on the outer for refusing, If so what is there comeback.

There is a post on the ASADA sub board that answered this by saying that the other 10 had decided to take them as suppositories but the pills were never manufactured as the program was canned before they got a chance to produce them. At least that's the story coming out of essendon

 

[Bovo]

What do people think would have been fair?

Losing more picks?
Another monetary fine?

I know when you compare it with our sanctions it doesn't look right. Maybe set penalties are the way to go so there's not so much wiggle room.

Have to keep in mind the AFL would never allow Essendon to fold. Hit them too hard and they need help staying viable - that could be a pretty big drain on resources. Where does that money come from?

It is a very good question. I would be doing the following:
1 - Have the AFL involved in the day to day running of the club for a period of time (similar to the threat the AFL gave Carlton if they don't start making $$).

2 - I agree with the sentiments about getting early draft picks. Instead of missing out on a first round pick, they get the last pick of round 1, but continue to get the first pick of round 2 etc.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What do people think would have been fair?

Losing more picks?
Another monetary fine?

I know when you compare it with our sanctions it doesn't look right. Maybe set penalties are the way to go so there's not so much wiggle room.

Have to keep in mind the AFL would never allow Essendon to fold. Hit them too hard and they need help staying viable - that could be a pretty big drain on resources. Where does that money come from?

Should be hit hard with loss of early picks for a few years.

No point fining them, as they will probably record a loss, then the AFL will bail them out like the Dees.

 

[Red mist]

 

[GameofSloanes]

Jobe Watson's testimony labelled BS despite his father believing in it.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ess...ration-for-sport/story-e6frf3e3-1227707163076

Seriously, how dumb were these players? Who gave them such amateurish legal advice? The whole 'Its not my fault, I just did as I am told defence' was always destined to be smashed for six by any half arsed legal opposition in the face of the actual rules on an international stage. If anything the AFL was shown to be nothing short of a two bit amateurish operation, with equally childish attitudes. The more I read the more I am floored by the monumental stupidity of all involved. The players should certainly get their money back from their lawyers for just basic incompetence.

Didn't work out too well at Nuremberg either

 

[adelaidecrows]

Didn't work out too well at Nuremberg either

Funny how they thought 60 years on it would be different.