2016 Non Crows AFL Discussion thread Part 2

[NikkiNoo]

did this happen before or after Tippett decided he wanted to move to Sydney?

Before, hence the secret shenanigans of Ireland admitting they broke the AFL rules to meet with Tippett while he was a contracted player to us. They are allowed to talk to managers etc not directly to a player, but they met at Tippett's father's house on the Gold Coast when we played up there. Ireland bragged about it on radio in Melbourne. The AFL put their fingers in their ears and pretended that it never happened.

 

[1970crow]

You weren't paying attention to the Tippett saga were you?

Tippett's manager was very good mates with Andrew Ireland, they worked together at the Lions. Tippett's manager went to Ireland and told him there was a secret clause in his contract that meant we would have to trade him for a second rounder.

So yes, they knew exactly the likely cost before they proceeded to make offers.

Sure, if you're not a very deep thinker. Tippett was equally at risk if it got out about side deals, were you paying attention? It was a game of cat and mouse with Sydney knowing that umtimately we'd buckle, but at what price and one that would also satisfy prying AFL eyes. If you think that whole debacle was as simple as Sydney knowing that we'd already accepted a 2nd rounder, actually it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you'd think that.

 

[1970crow]

You weren't paying attention to the Tippett saga were you?

Tippett's manager was very good mates with Andrew Ireland, they worked together at the Lions. Tippett's manager went to Ireland and told him there was a secret clause in his contract that meant we would have to trade him for a second rounder.

So yes, they knew exactly the likely cost before they proceeded to make offers.

Sure, if you're not a very deep thinker. Tippett was equally at risk if it got out about side deals, were you paying attention? It was a game of cat and mouse with Sydney knowing that umtimately we'd buckle, but at what price and one that would also satisfy prying AFL eyes. If you think that whole debacle was as simple as Sydney knowing that we'd already accepted a 2nd rounder, actually it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you'd think that.

 

[Pdub]

Sure, if you're not a very deep thinker. Tippett was equally at risk if it got out about side deals, were you paying attention? It was a game of cat and mouse with Sydney knowing that umtimately we'd buckle, but at what price and one that would also satisfy prying AFL eyes. If you think that whole debacle was as simple as Sydney knowing that we'd already accepted a 2nd rounder, actually it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you'd think that.

It's easy to call yourself a "deep thinker" and say you would have known how everything would play out after the fact when you have the benefit of hindsight. Most involved thought the deal was not as bad as the end punishment resulted. In their minds they were just letting a kid go home, to the club of his choice, when pretty much every trade ends up going to the club of their choice anyway, they didn't think it was a big deal. But I guess deep thinkers with hindsight will say "how could they not know it would be a big deal? they lost 2 years of draft picks!".

Sydney determined the trade price was low so moved to make a massive offer. In the same way we would have made a judgment on what we would be able to get Gibbs for, before we went public, we were just wrong. You don't need to talk to the club to work out the price, I never suggested that. Clubs use their experience and judgment of what they would expect if the shoe was on the other foot, then they work out if they can afford to make that trade, then they try to convince the player.

It's much easier to work out if you can get together an attractive trade offer than it is to convince a player to switch clubs, so you work out if you will even be able to trade for them before you try to convince the player to switch.

In all likelihood the club determines what they are prepared to give up to get a player of a certain type, then they make a list of players who would be gettable with that kind of trade offer, start at the top and work their way to the bottom to see who they can get.

 

[BRL121]

According to the AFL website, "Jars" is in a good spot! I thought that Darren had found a good restaurant, but no, it's Jarman Impey who is feeling great after his car wrecking episode! It should be illegal for him to have the Jars nickname. Furthermore, I would have thought that how the car owners were feeling was more relevant.

 

[Bicks]

 

[Pea Nut]

So handing it back was just a figure of speech ??? Strange !!

 

[BRL121]

So handing it back was just a figure of speech ??? Strange !!

It was a virtual handback.

 

[GreyCrow]

But at least Jobe is in a good place.

 

[Pea Nut]

It was a virtual handback.

 

[Moonwatcher]

Jobe Watson on superstar month now featuring his best brownlow winning performances of 2012.

 

[Elite Crow]

Jobe Watson on superstar month now featuring his best brownlow winning performances of 2012.

That's a disgrace, Foxtel have made an error here.

He has to give it back otherwise he hasn't given it back, it can't get any clearer than that, but somehow the AFL have ****ed this up as well. They have to ask for it back.

 

[Pea Nut]

Jobe Watson on superstar month now featuring his best brownlow winning performances of 2012.

I noticed that as well. My mind boggled on how they could seriously still include him on that list. I certainly wont be watching the channel while his games are being shown.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Jobe Watson on superstar month now featuring his best brownlow winning performances of 2012.

Which drug company is sponsoring drug cheat of the month...

 

[tinman]

Which drug company is sponsoring drug cheat of the month...

C'mon guys, go easy. Any minute now Steve Danks is going to come forward with evidence which clearly exonerates all of the Essendon players who were found guilty of doping!

You need to stop being so cynical.

The Essendon players are victims who need our support, and the poor club, what about the club? They need to be supported too, after what's happened, they need to get back on their feet.

All these victims. It was all just a terrible.....accident??

 

[Sanders]

It doesn't mean much once it's erased from the records. That's the biggie

That said, does anyone believe he misplaced it?

 

[chazwazza]

Before, hence the secret shenanigans of Ireland admitting they broke the AFL rules to meet with Tippett while he was a contracted player to us. They are allowed to talk to managers etc not directly to a player, but they met at Tippett's father's house on the Gold Coast when we played up there. Ireland bragged about it on radio in Melbourne. The AFL put their fingers in their ears and pretended that it never happened.

Also hence how Cometti was told halfway through that year at the Central Markets that Tippett was off to Sydney. Deal was done way before that trade period. Yet Sydney apparently weren't involved in draft tampering. Go figure.

 

[Rotayjay]

The fantastic thing about Christmas is that for a fair majority of the population, Christmas means coming together with family and eating and drinking yourselves silly. But its all about being together. Its my favourite time of year simply for that reason. I understand some of the arguments that not everyone celebrates Christmas and some people have minimal family or are alone on Christmas and an event like the BBL give them something to go to. The funny thing is, a lot of people who would be celebrating Christmas with family also like cricket (so I heard) and hence some are likely to choose to take their kids to games as a present which would put a bigger strain on families to get together. This obsession of allowing people to work if they want to is also a flawed concept because well.....bosses! We also as a society have started to really over cater with events to appease the 'weekend boredom' of the monday to friday worker all at the expense of families of the hospitality and retail sectors not to mention all the extra support from police and public transport on these days. 1 or 2 days a year is not a big ask to shut up shop and have some quality time with loved ones.

As a political issue, I just don't want Australian society to go too far down the blurred lines path. Politicians harp on about flexibility, flexibility, flexibility but look where we are today. A large portion of Australians now can't find work, don't work enough or work with no benefits. Ultimately, dollars are necessary and fun but people are the purpose of having a human community. People matter more than all the other considerations. That idea of giving all Australians a pay rise but abolishing all penalty rates ... sounds like a dystopia to me. Call me old fashioned.

Still think that Good Friday footy is perfectly ok though.

 

[Sanders]

As a political issue, I just don't want Australian society to go too far down the blurred lines path. Politicians harp on about flexibility, flexibility, flexibility but look where we are today. A large portion of Australians now can't find work, don't work enough or work with no benefits. Ultimately, dollars are necessary and fun but people are the purpose of having a human community. People matter more than all the other considerations. That idea of giving all Australians a pay rise but abolishing all penalty rates ... sounds like a dystopia to me. Call me old fashioned.

Still think that Good Friday footy is perfectly ok though.

What about those people whose family lifestyles don't allow them to work irregular hours, what merit is there in advantaging others who can with penalty rates?

Pay rise for is family friendly
Penalty rates are not family friendly

 

[Rotayjay]

I'm not overtly religious but 2 days of the year set aside for reflection and family is not a lot to ask. Both days are family days for me -that said, it will probably happen and it is very much a first world problem.

Electricity going up $150 pa for households - this is something to really worry about now.

Spot price at 6am today $400 mega watt hour here - $60 interstate

This power debacle - more expensive and less reliable- is perhaps the ultimate symbol of the downfall of my beloved South Australia.

 

[Pea Nut]

What about those people whose family lifestyles don't allow them to work irregular hours, what merit is there in advantaging others who can with penalty rates?

Pay rise for is family friendly
Penalty rates are not family friendly

One could also argue that penalty rates are not business owner friendly, hence why Liberal governments always try to do away with them !!

 

[Sanders]

One could also argue that penalty rates are not business owner friendly, hence why Liberal governments always try to do away with them !!

You could do away with penalty rates and spread it around to everyone in a higher fixed rate. Costs the same.

 

[Rotayjay]

What about those people whose family lifestyles don't allow them to work irregular hours, what merit is there in advantaging others who can with penalty rates?

Pay rise for is family friendly
Penalty rates are not family friendly

At risk of derailing the thread, and I can't generalise, but surely not everyone who works night shifts thinks it's the best thing ever. It's often out of necessity. I think the kid who hands me my hot chips at Adelaide Oval should be monetarily compensated for the fact that he might have really wanted to go out with his mates or even attend the game as a spectator. When someone works 'normal hours', the extra family time is arguably a 'substitute' for the lower pay.

Apart from the time they spend at the clubs on weekdays, AFL players certainly work odd hours if you think about it.

 

[GameofSloanes]

But at least Jobe is in a good place.

So brave

 

[Sanders]

I think the kid who hands me my hot chips at Adelaide Oval should be monetarily compensated for the fact that he might have really wanted to go out with his mates or even attend the game as a spectator.

Compensated by you in higher prices? Isn't everyone up in arms about the cost of food at AO.

Am also not sure they've introduced conscription into AO yet; surely you decide if you want to work or not?

When someone works 'normal hours', the extra family time is arguably a 'substitute' for the lower pay.

Very (very) arguably. How would this work for single people?

Should we put in a pay cut for those with families? Cut benefits for stay at home mothers on the basis that being with their family is payment enough?