Play Nice 2016 Presidential Election Part 4 - President-Elect Trump

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sainteric

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Posts
2,012
Likes
1,064
AFL Club
St Kilda
I think its Obamas attempt at wedging Trump & Putin.
Its the obvious point of difference between the two. Trump may have given Syria to Putin to pally up to him. But Israeli expansion would really irk Putin.
Now Trump is going at the UN over this & anything else he feels like. Mind you its the Veto system used by mainly the US & Russia which has stuffed the UN. Its only a forum after all. Its the powerful sovereign states which use & abuse it. Bush did this before the Iraq invasion. Just attack & abuse the UN. Its a political punching bag.
Firstly Trump has got a number of pro settlement voices in his administration as well as nearly all of them hate the UN and pretty much muslims. So this is a massive free kick. Bibi and a great number of his supporters believe Jeresulem is for jews the settlements will now accelerate. Putin does really doesnt care too much about israel other than what it will complicate his ME strategy whatever that is. But he truely doesnt care about muslims either. So allround this useless bit of UN theatre started by NZ will pretty much do the opposite to what the palestinians wanted.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Sainteric

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Posts
2,012
Likes
1,064
AFL Club
St Kilda
It's funny though that Netanyahu is literally bitching because Obama didn't take the moral "low" ground. As if he should have done as they have for the last thirty years, and support Israel, against the world view, the legal view, and frankly the human view IMO.
It is distorted. And to claim that Israel must have settlements before they can talk peace, when the Palestinians implicitly require no settlements simply states that the Israel right have no interest in peace.
Bibi is a worry. His ideology is as coarse as Putin's. It centres around Ben-gurions ruminating 70 years ago that Israel must settle baby settle, until all the Arabs are gone. But this idea was never popular and after 67 especially it was committed to the annals of history.
Most Israelis support two state peace. Bibi and the ultra orthodox right are campaigners. I'm glad Obama bent him over. Ungrateful prick. Keep the 38 billion... LOL
The israeli view is that the palestinians dont want to negotiate and just want to take.

Now this pretty much as a maxim is true whether you are on left with the palestinians, or the more rightist view of the US or Bibi.

If you are on the left you believe that the palestinian should be given the borders of nearly 70 years ago a new country and Jeruselem as its capital and repatriation of individuals back to israel or some variation of this. The only way palestine and most other interested parties see this happening is if israel is forced to do this and this is part of the international legal push.

The israeli view is a settlement should be negotiated, give and take, and the only card israel has is land it can swap for thing it wants. Bibis additional view of jereuselem if for jews takes this further right.

By making the sttlements illegal israel has nothing to bargin with, palestine has no reason to come to the table as it now has something to argue before useless international tribunals and bibi will get further support from isralis to take a harder line with palestinians expand settlement and push palestinians out of jeruselem.

Obamas little play probably made things worst not better.
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
Do you know why Trump supports Israel on this issue? Will be interested to see how this one plays out. I agree well played by Obama.
They don't. It's a key wedge issue because supporting Israel is confusing for alt-right types. It brings into conflict the anti-Islam stuff which is effective for recruiting people to their politics, and the anti-Jew stuff which is standard for neo-Nazis. Trump probably thinks Israel is both effective for being anti-Islam and for saying America is strong. His supporters did dog-whistle about secret establishment societies in charge of the world and Trump said a bit himself, including about the election being 'rigged', but I doubt he wants to do anything anti-Jewish. He has worked in or near the media for decades, and has taken advantage of financial rules repeatedly - he knows there aren't secret cabals in charge of everything and that a lot of the people in charge are basically the same as him. But the Russians and the alt-right want to keep pretending there is this group of 'elites' who they can infer are Jewish-Capitalist-pig-dog-CIA-NATO-FBI-blah-blahs-whatever-suits-their-current-political-needs.

Obama has said things about Israel before, but it is probably fair to read this cynically. Either he didn't want the Israel distraction while in charge of the US (remember from before he was elected he was called a secret-Muslim, and he got constant blowback for using an Islamic greeting, greeting Saudis too obsequiously, or doing things completely unrelated like the 'Terrorist fist bump' :rolleyes:) or he sees the issue of Israeli expansion as a great way to detach neo-Nazis from Trump's circle.
 

Jello_B

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Posts
3,793
Likes
2,524
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
They don't. It's a key wedge issue because supporting Israel is confusing for alt-right types. It brings into conflict the anti-Islam stuff which is effective for recruiting people to their politics, and the anti-Jew stuff which is standard for neo-Nazis. Trump probably thinks Israel is both effective for being anti-Islam and for saying America is strong. His supporters did dog-whistle about secret establishment societies in charge of the world and Trump said a bit himself, including about the election being 'rigged', but I doubt he wants to do anything anti-Jewish. He has worked in or near the media for decades, and has taken advantage of financial rules repeatedly - he knows there aren't secret cabals in charge of everything and that a lot of the people in charge are basically the same as him. But the Russians and the alt-right want to keep pretending there is this group of 'elites' who they can infer are Jewish-Capitalist-pig-dog-CIA-NATO-FBI-blah-blahs-whatever-suits-their-current-political-needs.

Obama has said things about Israel before, but it is probably fair to read this cynically. Either he didn't want the Israel distraction while in charge of the US (remember from before he was elected he was called a secret-Muslim, and he got constant blowback for using an Islamic greeting, greeting Saudis too obsequiously, or doing things completely unrelated like the 'Terrorist fist bump' :rolleyes:) or he sees the issue of Israeli expansion as a great way to detach neo-Nazis from Trump's circle.
What would you do?
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
What would you do?
Israel's conduct in the region, especially in regards to the ongoing settlements issue, deserves condemnation. Islam is overly obsessed by Israel thanks to the 'look over there' tactics of regional leaders, as well as a general desire to see the Middle-East seem more unified and for distant foreign powers (Europe/US) to not influence things. A two state solution makes sense, but there needs to be an immense amount of work done to overcome the hatred bred by the conflict.
 

Jello_B

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Posts
3,793
Likes
2,524
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Israel's conduct in the region, especially in regards to the ongoing settlements issue, deserves condemnation. Islam is overly obsessed by Israel thanks to the 'look over there' tactics of regional leaders, as well as a general desire to see the Middle-East seem more unified and for distant foreign powers (Europe/US) to not influence things. A two state solution makes sense, but there needs to be an immense amount of work done to overcome the hatred bred by the conflict.
Hasn't everyone been condemning it for years though? And we are still here.
I agree with the 2 state, although good luck getting Israel to agree with that, and then enable it to happen.
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
Hasn't everyone been condemning it for years though?
Not everyone, and not with substantial follow-up action. That's why Obama not using the US veto is a news story. Previously the US have condemned settlements, but in 2011 Obama vetoed a similar resolution to this one. They have essentially been threatening to do this and Israel has been calling their bluff. Now that bluff has been called.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
35,171
Likes
28,990
Location
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
Says it all really. We had a war when Iraq took Kuwait. A little bit off southern Iraq ruled by oil rich Sheiks.
But with Israels salami tactics of taking land from Palestinians, nothing.
Kuwait was originally a part of Iraq....It was formed as a British partition for the oil port....Saddam was 'sucked-in' by the yanks into thinking it was all O.K to re-partition it, unawares it had been a Bush/Cheney/C.I.A set-up all along, as a justification to invade Iraq....But it was also a plan to destroy most of his military, for the peace-of-mind of the neighboring Saudi's & Bush/Cheney's mates; Kashogghi & the Bin Ladens.
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
Kuwait was originally a part of Iraq....It was formed as a British partition for the oil port....Saddam was 'sucked-in' by the yanks into thinking it was all O.K to re-partition it, unawares it had been a Bush/Cheney/C.I.A set-up all along, as a justification to invade Iraq....But it was also a plan to destroy most of his military, for the peace-of-mind of the neighboring Saudi's & Bush/Cheney's mates; Kashogghi & the Bin Ladens.
So this Bush/Cheney/CIA set-up you describe... it led to them not at all invading Iraq and not at all destroying 'most of his military' or weakening Iraqi influence so much that Saddam was still in complete control 12 years later despite severe sanctions when the WMD myth was 'sexed up' to justify an actual invasion...

You know you're desperate when you have to invent a conspiracy because for some reason the actual conspiracy wasn't conspiratorial enough for you.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
35,171
Likes
28,990
Location
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
So this Bush/Cheney/CIA set-up you describe... it led to them not at all invading Iraq and not at all destroying 'most of his military' or weakening Iraqi influence so much that Saddam was still in complete control 12 years later despite severe sanctions when the WMD myth was 'sexed up' to justify an actual invasion...

You know you're desperate when you have to invent a conspiracy because for some reason the actual conspiracy wasn't conspiratorial enough for you.
LOL.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,490
Likes
7,955
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
So this Bush/Cheney/CIA set-up you describe... it led to them not at all invading Iraq and not at all destroying 'most of his military' or weakening Iraqi influence so much that Saddam was still in complete control 12 years later despite severe sanctions when the WMD myth was 'sexed up' to justify an actual invasion...

You know you're desperate when you have to invent a conspiracy because for some reason the actual conspiracy wasn't conspiratorial enough for you.
Feel free to make up a conspiracy of your own ;)
I dont think any fiction you'd come up with could come close to the truth. I dont think we'll ever really know.
I favour the 'destroy the threat to Israel & start democratization of the middle east' idea.
Yes I know thats crazy, but!!!!
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
Feel free to make up a conspiracy of your own ;)
I dont think any fiction you'd come up with could come close to the truth. I dont think we'll ever really know.
I favour the 'destroy the threat to Israel & start democratization of the middle east' idea.
Yes I know thats crazy, but!!!!
I'm saying there was already an actual real life conspiracy with the 'sexing up' of intelligence before the Iraq War, but despite this, Procrastinator is so desperate to blame everything on America he decides to make the first Gulf War a conspiracy too. And even thought we can all look up what happened in that war, he invented a motive for his made-up conspiracy that suggested the Americans wanted an excuse to invade Iraq. You know - that thing they DIDN'T do in the 90s. I mean, with stupidity like that, you can understand why he has returned to his regular response of:
LOL....Exxon is Rockerfeller owned....As is the C.I.A
LOL....Here's another for you.

Wake-up peeps....You cannot believe a word the murderous C.I.A, U.S govt & complicit MSM. say.
LOL....Looking forwards to the release of the name of the victims.
LOL....Sweet betrayal.

It's nice to see I'm living rent-free inside your insipid pea-brain.:D:thumbsu:
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,490
Likes
7,955
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Im not so sure of the first war conspiracy. Theirs a lot said about the US not reacting to Iraq noises about Kuwait. I dont know. Maybe King Saud asked Bush to set Saddam up. But I dont know. Makes for a good story. The weird thing was why did they stop 1/2 way & not exterminate Saddam then??
 

Betty Noir

Club Legend
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Posts
1,955
Likes
1,243
Location
53rd & 3rd
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
The israeli view is that the palestinians dont want to negotiate and just want to take.

Now this pretty much as a maxim is true whether you are on left with the palestinians, or the more rightist view of the US or Bibi.

If you are on the left you believe that the palestinian should be given the borders of nearly 70 years ago a new country and Jeruselem as its capital and repatriation of individuals back to israel or some variation of this. The only way palestine and most other interested parties see this happening is if israel is forced to do this and this is part of the international legal push.

The israeli view is a settlement should be negotiated, give and take, and the only card israel has is land it can swap for thing it wants. Bibis additional view of jereuselem if for jews takes this further right.

By making the sttlements illegal israel has nothing to bargin with, palestine has no reason to come to the table as it now has something to argue before useless international tribunals and bibi will get further support from isralis to take a harder line with palestinians expand settlement and push palestinians out of jeruselem.

Obamas little play probably made things worst not better.
It's clear to all that the Palestinians aren't in any place to take anything. So this claim by the right faction in Israel is BS. The Palestinians do not punch outside their weight... especially against Israel... they are roundly disliked, and apart from the odd RPG, are throwing sticks and stones.
To me, it looks like they don't have many options regarding places to live. They are like the endangered frog in the path of the M1. I also believe that there is a bit of a land grab going on, and some corruption... as an interesting aside, a high proportion of the settlers are Russian Jews... not sure what that means in the scheme of things... LOL...
I don't like Bibi, and I think Obama is the same. But this probably won't make any difference to the world order, however some people might sleep better.
 

Betty Noir

Club Legend
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Posts
1,955
Likes
1,243
Location
53rd & 3rd
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It was the right thing to do.He should have done it 8 years ago, 4 years ago, 2 years ago. It's good he did it now but it's so weak and pissie and totally defines his administration and the entire left.

Great intentions, weak execution. Doing it now is little more than more symbolism.
Hey... it's funny that no-one asked about my beautiful quotes... they were boring as **** I suppose...
Or else everyone on BF already knew that they were the acute elucidations of one particularly fecund J.Goebbels.

Oh what a mastermind. Dear oh dear.
 

yebiga

Anglo Guilt - suck it up
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
10,471
Likes
10,880
Location
Mens Gallery
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Hey... it's funny that no-one asked about my beautiful quotes... they were boring as **** I suppose...
Or else everyone on BF already knew that they were the acute elucidations of one particularly fecund J.Goebbels.

Oh what a mastermind. Dear oh dear.
Have you heard of the Classified CIA report regarding Climate change.

You can find it on the dark web code named project Noah. It suggests that Putin has been using Nuclear Submarines to melt the ice caps at both Poles including Greenland. Global warming is a real Russian conspiracy to destroy the west by causing coastal devastation around the world.

The consequences for the USA, China, Japan and much of Asia and Europe is monumental. The report concludes there is nothing likely to stop Putin except to appease him.

The same report said that during his Christmas address in 2015 Putin sent a private letter to Obama declaring full spectrum warfare on the USA. Telling Obama to stay the hell out of Syria and that Russia was the new Sheriff in town.

Amazing the crap you read on the internet.
 

GreyCrow

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Posts
44,467
Likes
63,754
Location
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, Redskins , White Sox
Have you heard of the Classified CIA report regarding Climate change.

You can find it on the dark web code named project Noah. It suggests that Putin has been using Nuclear Submarines to melt the ice caps at both Poles including Greenland. Global warming is a real Russian conspiracy to destroy the west by causing coastal devastation around the world.

The consequences for the USA, China, Japan and much of Asia and Europe is monumental. The report concludes there is nothing likely to stop Putin except to appease him.

The same report said that during his Christmas address in 2015 Putin sent a private letter to Obama declaring full spectrum warfare on the USA. Telling Obama to stay the hell out of Syria and that Russia was the new Sheriff in town.

Amazing the crap you read on the internet.
Procrastinator35 said:
LOL.
Click to expand...

LOL.
Click to expand...

LOL....Obama is C.I.A.
Click to expand...

LOL....Exxon is Rockerfeller owned....As is the C.I.A
Click to expand...

LOL....Here's another for you.

Wake-up peeps....You cannot believe a word the murderous C.I.A, U.S govt & complicit MSM. say.
Click to expand...

LOL..
Click to expand...

LOL....Looking forwards to the release of the name of the victims.
Click to expand...

LOL....Sweet betrayal.

It's nice to see I'm living rent-free inside your insipid pea-brain.:D:thumbsu:
Click to expand...

LOL....Pot/Kettle.
Just carrying on the LOLs
 

cannot

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Posts
5,059
Likes
4,836
Location
^^ ""Flat World Champions".
AFL Club
Richmond
50% of Donald Trump voters believe Hillary Clinton is involved in pedophilia ring:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/50-trump-fans-clinton-involved-pedophilia-article-1.2926098
Nearly half of the nation’s Republicans believe John Podesta’s leaked emails contain coded messages referring to “pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse,” according to a new poll from The Economist and YouGov. But more shocking is the number of Dems who have signed on to the asinine conspiracy: Twenty four percent say Pizzagate is “definitely” or “probably” true.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...ber-of-democrats-think-pizzagate-is-true.html
 
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
9,218
Likes
5,946
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
ATV Irdning
Maybe I missed it, but the strong-opinioned folk in here who have been dominating conversations don't seem to have put forth an opinion on Israel? And for that matter, is there comment on Castro?

It would be interesting to hear them opine on these 'wedge' issues...
 

herculez09

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Posts
7,975
Likes
9,553
Location
Essendon
AFL Club
West Coast
Maybe I missed it, but the strong-opinioned folk in here who have been dominating conversations don't seem to have put forth an opinion on Israel? And for that matter, is there comment on Castro?

It would be interesting to hear them opine on these 'wedge' issues...
Despite my strong support for Trump, I disagree with his pro-Israel stance. I'm impressed that Obama finally had the temerity to address the issue of Israel's human rights violations in settlements. I'm not convinced that Hillary would've been any better than Trump on the issue of Palestine, as she's seemingly always been quite pro-Israel as well. I'm also ecstatic that New Zealand held off Netahayu and refused to kowtow to his pathetic threats.

Castro was probably discussed weeks ago while he was still more relevant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom